Well, balls!
Seems this idea is deader than the proverbial doornail!
Nevertheless, the spins are NOT up for table 2 at Spielbank for the 25th of November at this typing so that will be my first day.
I'll test this until I learn something, decide no one cares or just get sick of doing it. I'll not let all the work done just fall by the wayside with no further work to test the theory.
FlAtMaN--------if you're reading this, at least log in and tell us what the problem is. You wanted a proper tracker--you got one. I'll bet you could get testers if you'd just put the sheets up again. I ran one sheet and it was perfect.
Sam
The rules as I understand them from the study of sheet LvF-16....................
Spins are listed in groups of nine. If you win five or more of those nine, you go down one unit (unless you are already at 1). If you lose five or more of those spins, you go up a unit for the next nine spins. You do not recalculate when you move ahead, but stay at the same level for nine spins regardless. My assumed bet will be $1 for easy calculation. Each spin will be a bet of $9. If I lose, I lose $9; if I win, I win $9. I could not see that FlAtMaN set a loss limit, but his win seems to be 108 units, be they Euros or whatever. Unless I am thinking wrong, he must win a net of 12 more wins than losses to achieve this goal. 12x9=108.
My first sheet may be confusing due to my poor organization and math skills. I may re-do it and re-post it.
Sam
Could someone help me?
Is there a way to cut-and-paste the numbers from Spielbank directly into the Excel program? Stef?
I have tried it and I can't figure it out.
November 25 stats are not up yet.
Sam
Sam,
I went off the boil on this one because of all the ill feeling but I'm still keen to see if it lives up to Flats claims.
A tracker would help a lot.
Can't help with the Excell request. Completely beyond my meagre knowledge.
Trebor
We have a tracker! Just don't want to have to hand-input the numbers.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 25, 02:14 PM 2012
We have a tracker! Just don't want to have to hand-input the numbers.
Sam
That tracker has nothind to do with rules of the bet....should be made as instructed.and why table 2/never enough req.spins there/
only 3,4,and 7 with more then 300 spins.
btw--click;archive,--click;table with more then 300 spins,--click;safe as,name it ex.LvF---Open
microsoft office excel---click;data--click;from the text,-click;next,next,finish,ok-----and you get the numbers----and when you delete window with numbers,it will come back with question;
do you wish to save it,which you do from download to documents....then you can paste it on deskopt.
FlAtMaN
Very well, I shall use table 3.
"That tracker has nothing to do with the rules of the bet..." Does anyone understand how a tracker would NOT have EVERYTHING to do with the rules of a bet?? If not, what the hell is it for??
I am not going to argue the point of the "rules" any longer. If someone else wishes to, power to them. I am going to use the tracker as Stef designed it. If that's wrong--so be it.
I have done everything humanly possible to clarify the rules, even to the point of making a video which soggett affirmed was correct. Stef wrote the tracker and the tracker picks exactly the same winners and losers as does LvF-16. As far as I'm concerned, the tracker is correct.
Would anyone agree/disagree? I will attach Stef's tracker in case you missed it.
Sam
Oh dear.
My version of excel is too old to run this tracker apparently.
Trebor
The only thing that's not right in the tracker is the progression that is used. In the tracker it goes up 1 unit everytime you lose 1 spin. While the progression has to be as followed: If after 9 spins in plus go down 1 unit if not go up 1 unit. Just as Sam said earlier in this thread.
SamNL
Thank you for that, and you are right. I plan to post the Excel sheet with the embedded progression and then figure my own using--hell, who knows if it's right??--FlAtMaN's progression.
This system is rapidly wearing on my nerves to the point I am within inches of abandoning it and moving on.
trebor
Perhaps Stef could modify the sheet where it would run on the old versions. I'm running Excel2000. Or is it 2010?? Anyway, it's the latest version. And the tracker is correct and works fine.
Sam
RULES MODIFICATION............AND IT'S THE ONLY AND LAST FRIGGIN' ONE!!!
FlAtMaN says to use table three. In bending over freakin' backward to do every freakin' thing he says to do.............
I'll use table 3.
HOW-freakin'-EVER.........
If table three has less than 300 spins, I will go to table 4. If table 4 has less than 300, I'll go to 5; then 6; then 7.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 25, 03:59 PM 2012
RULES MODIFICATION............AND IT'S THE ONLY AND LAST FRIGGIN' ONE!!!
FlAtMaN says to use table three. In bending over freakin' backward to do every freakin' thing he says to do.............
I'll use table 3.
HOW-freakin'-EVER.........
If table three has less than 300 spins, I will go to table 4. If table 4 has less than 300, I'll go to 5; then 6; then 7.
Sam
If you use table 2 you will have about 4/5 sessions a month...while table 3 23-30 sessions a month.
1+1- in cycle of 9 spins........at the end of any cycle you 72,or more up...session ends.
--SESSION MUST FINISH AT THE END OF 9 CYCLES
And thats how I every day find tables...some day 3,4,7 over 300 spins,some day 0nly 1 table,
so far in 2 months only 2 days without required condition.
Flatman,
I missed the 300 spins per table info, can't find it. How does this work?
"And that's how I every day find tables...some day 3,4,7 over 300 spins,some day 0nly 1 table,so far in 2 months only 2 days without required condition."
All
I have been doing some testing on numbers I won't publish. Spielbank numbers.
This thing tanks horribly when you use the built-in progression. You can hit a 300 loss withing thirty or forty spins.
Hope the 9 sequence works better.
In my first test, I will video the tracker so that you may see exactly how I'm doing it.
Numbers for 11-25 are still not published.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 25, 10:16 PM 2012
All
I have been doing some testing on numbers I won't publish. Spielbank numbers.
This thing tanks horribly when you use the built-in progression. You can hit a 300 loss withing thirty or forty spins.
Hope the 9 sequence works better.
In my first test, I will video the tracker so that you may see exactly how I'm doing it.
Numbers for 11-25 are still not published.
Sam
Sam,
You said the system tanks horribly but are you finishing the 300 and something spins required by Flatman? even then it's tanking?
Nope. When it went down 400 units, I quit. Maybe at -800 it would have turned around. The max at Dublin for a split is 20 Euro. Can't stay with it forever because of the table limit.
NOTICE..............
When I start the real tests, I will delete all posts but mine and possibly lock the thread.
Sam
This thing won 43 sessions from 72-190 chips when played as instructed,only 2 session
lost but never required BR.
It actually about 60 per a session
WON=3705
LOST=1071
OVERALL WIN=2634
More 9x4 after.
I have also ran several trots that look like the attached.
next 9
next 9
next 9
last 9
There it is,all done manuall,which means there is possibility
of eventual mistakes.Once if anybody makes tracker under
attached rules it can be recheked all,or if you have a time manually.
The fact is that the method didn't lose its BR as yet,and will be
testing it untill it does.
My advice for those that playing BV....PLAY THIS THERE WITH EXACT
SAME RULES WITH 360 SPINS SESSION 40 CYCLES X 9
AFTER EACH SESSION RETRACK FROM THE START...NEW 9 SPLITS.
Hi Guys,
Please dont pull out eachothers hair ;D
Sam,
I will look at the tracker to update it with the suggested progression.
+1/-1 every 9 spins...
Flat,
Is it also that you reset the progression to 1 if you get a new high ?
Stephan
Quote from: Stepkevh on Nov 26, 09:27 AM 2012
Hi Guys,
Please don't pull out eachothers hair ;D
Sam,
I will look at the tracker to update it with the suggested progression.
+1/-1 every 9 spins...
Flat,
Is it also that you reset the progression to 1 if you get a new high ?
Stephan
No Stef,
1+1-after each cycle continuosly until 72 +or more....as on each cycle of 9 spins you see new results...
you can't end the session if 72 +is in the middle of any cycle,must be at the end...as it is very clear from my excels,and that is why in most sessions there is higher win then 72 required.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 26, 12:22 AM 2012
NOTICE..............
When I start the real tests, I will delete all posts but mine and possibly lock the thread.
Sam
Naturally, I won't do that now!! FlAtMaN finally put up the sheets and I can get off me knees!!
Stef.................
They still have not put up the spins for 11/25 so I'll just wait for the latest iteration of the tracker.
Thank you for all your work.
Sam
Once if anybody makes tracker under
attached rules
FlAtMaN
When Stef completes the tracker, why not have a look at it and tell us if it's right or if it's wrong. You spend hours doing these things by hand; you can check the tracker in two minutes.
For all of us..............
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 26, 12:04 PM 2012
Naturally, I won't do that now!! FlAtMaN finally put up the sheets and I can get off me knees!!
Stef.................
They still have not put up the spins for 11/25 so I'll just wait for the latest iteration of the tracker.
Thank you for all your work.
Sam
They won't put up any spins from yesterday as casino don't work on this sunday.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 26, 12:04 PM 2012
Naturally, I won't do that now!! FlAtMaN finally put up the sheets and I can get off me knees!!
Stef.................
They still have not put up the spins for 11/25 so I'll just wait for the latest iteration of the tracker.
Thank you for all your work.
Sam
Couldn't do it earlier couse was absent in Wien/Austria/playing this with gentleman to prove to him
my claims.All is settled.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 26, 12:09 PM 2012
Once if anybody makes tracker under
attached rules
FlAtMaN
When Stef completes the tracker, why not have a look at it and tell us if it's right or if it's wrong. You spend hours doing these things by hand; you can check the tracker in two minutes.
For all of us..............
Sam
I hope he clearly understood the rules.....repeats of same splits in furthers.......checking the results after end of each cycle.....when 72 or more in plus session ends.Any querry am here.
The way to test the tracker is to use one or more of your posted sheets. If the tracker and you agree, it must be right.
Thanks for telling me about the spins at Spielbank. I did not know that as I never use them.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 26, 01:22 PM 2012
The way to test the tracker is to use one or more of your posted sheets. If the tracker and you agree, it must be right.
Thanks for telling me about the spins at Spielbank. I did not know that as I never use them.
Sam
And did you succeed to paste em
I did succeed. However at Spielbank they put lines in every now and then:
24
12
-- --
6
21
If I don't take the lines out, it will mess up the tracker. Also, they write about "twice". I guess they pay twice every now and then.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 26, 02:34 PM 2012
I did succeed. However at Spielbank they put lines in every now and then:
24
12
-- --
6
21
If I don't take the lines out, it will mess up the tracker. Also, they write about "twice". I guess they pay twice every now and then.
Just delete ROWS with empty lines/numbers/
FINALLY MY FIRST TEST. (I'LL WRITE IN BOLD RED SO IT WILL BE EASY TO FIND MY TESTS.)
TABLE 4
VERY GOOD RESULTS. DEPTH INTO TO BANKROLL WAS 225.
YOU CAN SEE BOTH PROGRESSIONS AT WORK HERE.
Here Sam,
my results without watching yours as yet...after I post this gona see if it matches.
just checked it up and notice difference of betting;you are reducing/increasing after each spin,while I'm doing it each cycle of 9 spins----which I find more secure in case of a large DD
My session ended after 11 cycles of 9 spins with 72 +
delete
Quote from: FlAtMaN on Nov 27, 03:17 AM 2012
Here Sam,
my results without watching yours as yet...after I post this gona see if it matches.
just checked it up and notice difference of betting;you are reducing/increasing after each spin,while I'm doing it each cycle of 9 spins----as instructed by rules.
My session ended after 11 cycles of 9 spins with 72 +
FlAtMaN
I am not doing the +1/-1---the software is. My calculations are in column "O". I may have made a mistake in my math, but I am using your formula. In the beginning of this post, I said I would probably do the first sheet or two wrong people would just have to bear with me.
While I was doing this sheet my dog was after a possum and raising all kinds of h.ell. The neighbors don't take it kindly.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 27, 12:01 PM 2012
FlAtMaN
I am not doing the +1/-1---the software is. My calculations are in column "O". I may have made a mistake in my math, but I am using your formula. In the beginning of this post, I said I would probably do the first sheet or two wrong people would just have to bear with me.
While I was doing this sheet my dog was after a possum and raising all kinds of h.ell. The neighbors don't take it kindly.
Sam
o ye just seen it...at one stage at the end of cycle you were 72 + and that is our aim.
There may be some wrong calculation/which is not important/as at any end of cycle final number must be possible dividing by 9------exp;81,45,180,atc.....can't be for instance 7 + I have seen there,must be 9+...even though not important.....as you can see in my excel I reached 72 + in
eleventh cycle.And at the end of 11th.cycle you had -7/probablyshould be -9/...so our 2 excels don't mutch at all...I will recheck my again and let know.
Idid some checking and found why our excels don't match.....on spin 33 you have double 4,
while me only single 4.....I usually delete those empty lines and those with numbers there,as am not
sure what that means....is it a double 4 or a single????
Have triple checked and number 4 is repeater...therefore my corrected excel look like this...it matches
yours I think.
Yes, they match.
TEST NUMBER TWO........11-27 TABLE 4
DEPTH INTO BANKROLL=342 UNITS.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 27, 04:35 PM 2012
Yes, they match.
Meaning that my tracker does what it needs to do :-)
except the fact that the progression isnt good yet :-)
Stef
The tracker works perfectly as far as I'm concerned. Whether or not you wish to modify it to FlAtMaN's progression is up to you. It is not hard at all to calculate the wins/losses.
Sam
The lesser you need to do yourself with a tracker the better :thumbsup:
well thats my way of thinking ;D
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 27, 10:09 PM 2012
TEST NUMBER TWO........11-27 TABLE 4
DEPTH INTO BANKROLL=342 UNITS.
--Dear Sam,
WHO are you ruled from????---My BR iz 1440 to win 72 .....exactly 5% of the BR....and it is stated in my rules.You are doing it by Steps high/low...but you can click on it and change it from 100/300
to 72/1440.....and why continue playing once you reached stop win 108 and session should be finished...that's how I test methods anyhow.....as thatway sooner or later you might hit the wall.
BTW--in one of the sessions I was 1260 down and come back in several cycles...once I lose BR and
my testing be finished.In 48 sessions tested all survived.....wee shall see.
FlAtMaN
I am paying no attention to Stef's +1/-1 progression. It is there because he programmed it there. I'm afraid to try to erase or delete it as it might have formulas in those columns. Now, column "O" is a blank column and I can write in it. That is where I do your calculation as you outline it.
With all due respect, you are not reading my posts on this test as I explained that fully. And with all due respect, you seem to have formed the opinion I'm out to get you. I'm out to conduct a test, and, as we say in the U.S., let the chips fall where they may. I am certainly hopeful this thing wins. Only a fool would hope for a loser.
The software is out there--I've linked it! The numbers are all over the world, yet I'm the only person conducting a test. Perhaps when/if Stef completes the new software with your progression in it, you will see what I'm doing.
DOES ANY SWINGIN' DICK ON THE FORUM UNDERSTAND ME?
Sam
Sam,
If you want to hide the columns thats no problem. (not deleting :-) )
Just click at the letter from the column you want to hide (this selects the entire column)
Then right-click on it and select "hide"
Its that easy :-)
Btw, i saw the question here what version of excel it is.
I make my excels in 2007 thats why it are xlsx files.
This version can handle much more nested formulas.
If the sheet isnt to advanced i can save it in the old xls format for excel versions below 2007
Just ask and thou shall get ;D (even the excel 2007 enterprise soft is available) ;D
Thank you, Stef. I know how to hide things en Excel. No problem. I will do that in the future. I just thought some members might like to see both progressions working side-by-side, that's all.
I can't speak for everyone, but for my part there is no need to re-write the sheet with FlAtMaN's progression. It is very easy to figure.
Here it is for those who don't know:
Look at your last nine spins. Did you win any money? Go down a unit for your next nine. Did you lose any money? Go up a unit for your next nine.
Sam
oh but i will change it because if it is as good as Flat claims it is
then i need a good sheet for my bot
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 28, 10:35 AM 2012
Thank you, Stef. I know how to hide things en Excel. No problem. I will do that in the future. I just thought some members might like to see both progressions working side-by-side, that's all.
I can't speak for everyone, but for my part there is no need to re-write the sheet with FlAtMaN's progression. It is very easy to figure.
Here it is for those who don't know:
Look at your last nine spins. Did you win any money? Go down a unit for your next nine. Did you lose any money? Go up a unit for your next nine.
Sam
To get me...lol...I understand you very well Sam,I could do easy as you do just following Steps
tracker/but don't know how to paste Wiesbadens there/and it goes very fast for me/did 12 sessions in one afternoon after returned from Wien/and like to keep records.If this passes 100 sessions I will
order a bot/even though never ever played there/for BV---SESSION 360 SPINS---time will tell.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 28, 09:32 AM 2012
FlAtMaN
I am paying no attention to Stef's +1/-1 progression. It is there because he programmed it there. I'm afraid to try to erase or delete it as it might have formulas in those columns. Now, column "O" is a blank column and I can write in it. That is where I do your calculation as you outline it.
With all due respect, you are not reading my posts on this test as I explained that fully. And with all due respect, you seem to have formed the opinion I'm out to get you. I'm out to conduct a test, and, as we say in the U.S., let the chips fall where they may. I am certainly hopeful this thing wins. Only a fool would hope for a loser.
The software is out there--I've linked it! The numbers are all over the world, yet I'm the only person conducting a test. Perhaps when/if Stef completes the new software with your progression in it, you will see what I'm doing.
DOES ANY SWINGIN' DICK ON THE FORUM UNDERSTAND ME?
Sam
I do Sir!!!
two sessions from yesterday--table 4 and 7----have a look session 48 Sam spin 84....
I truly understand what you're saying. Play until a sequence of nine is completed. I got it.
Now, look at the sheet with the progression hidden and you will see that I am TRYING to do exactly as you say. Any errors will be math.
Sam
Good...Haven't you download table 7 also from last night.....usually 3.4.7 bussiest
Here you go Sam and others.
Trackers for Flats 9 Last/Furthest splits with the 9 cycle.
Stephan
Stef
Thank you so very much. That should eliminate all errors on my part!
Here's the test for today. Very good-almost no draw down.
Sam
I'm going to have to update my Excel 2003.
Do I understand right, 2007 onwards?
Trebor
Guys
This tracker Stef has written is just perfect!! Just cut-and-paste and watch the money roll in.
Bro, I owe you. This will make doing the tests for FlAtMaN a cinch.
Sam
Just tested table 3 and went down 1400+ units.
I tested some SMLive actuals posted here link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=3689.120 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=3689.120)
There were 22 sessions of at least 300 spins. 20 of them hit 72 units win/goal and 2 ended in a loss of BR of 1440.
@ Sam
You actually won your last session after you hit 117 units. After that you almost hit a stop loss.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Nov 29, 12:07 AM 2012
I tested some SMLive actuals posted here link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=3689.120 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=3689.120)
There were 22 sessions of at least 300 spins. 20 of them hit 72 units win/goal and 2 ended in a loss of BR of 1440.
Ouch!
Quote from: trebor on Nov 28, 06:15 PM 2012
I'm going to have to update my Excel 2003.
Do I understand right, 2007 onwards?
Trebor
I always use 2007, that supports the xslx format i make.
The formulas are so deeply nested for some trackers thats it impossible to make it for older versions.
Stef
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 28, 10:36 PM 2012
Just tested table 3 and went down 1400+ units.
Didn't I told you//and it stays in the rules----stop-win---and then you continued to play.
You see dear Sam,you are doing it all your own way...I'm doing it my way and won that
session as reached win goal,/but then noticed that it shouldn't be even tested,couse didn't have 300 spins,took you for the word/as you don't stick to the rules of the method.CAPISI.
No method in the world could win thatway,that is why there are certain rules....am not
going to teach you here very basic laws of roulette,but one of them is when you winning
in the start or first part of playing session you should end the game...if not winning continue
playing.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 28, 10:36 PM 2012
Just tested table 3 and went down 1400+ units.
Hi Sam,
Im sure Flat said when in positive territory to reset progression to 1.
So using your data, after the cycle ends at row 63, we reset to 1 unit progression as we are at a new high.
Finished your numbers at -45
Regards
B27
Quote from: FlAtMaN on Nov 29, 08:00 AM 2012
Didn't I told you//and it stays in the rules----stop-win---and then you continued to play.
You see dear Sam,you are doing it all your own way...I'm doing it my way and won that
session as reached win goal,as you don't stick to the rules of the method.CAPISI.
Hi Flat,
I can see where it reached the win goal, but this was MID cycle. If I remember correctly you mentioned somewhere that we only end at the CONCLUSION of a cycle. At the conclusion of the cycle (Sams data at line 65) I got +9
Can you clarify when we stop play - mid cycle or conclusion of cycle?
Regards
B27
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 28, 10:36 PM 2012
Just tested table 3 and went down 1400+ units.
just checked yesterdays results from table 2 to 7 and there is not
one session that reached required 300 spins.
Especially this session of Sam....you can all check it up......now am sure This is not Sam that
I used to know.You see dear Sam everything you do you do it wrongly,against the required rules,on your own way.In my method you are applicating your own rules....you can't besome a winner like that,only a loser......good luck anyhow.
Quote from: Bettor 27 on Nov 29, 08:20 AM 2012
Hi Flat,
I can see where it reached the win goal, but this was MID cycle. If I remember correctly you mentioned somewhere that we only end at the CONCLUSION of a cycle. At the conclusion of the cycle (Sams data at line 65) I got +9
Can you clarify when we stop play - mid cycle or conclusion of cycle?
Regards
B27
Exactly as you explained....BUT NOT SAM MENTIONED SESSION......check it how many spins there.
Quote from: FlAtMaN on Nov 29, 08:28 AM 2012
Exactly as you explained....BUT NOT SAM MENTIONED SESSION......check it how many spins there
Yes he hasn't got a 300 spin session but can you check my review of his numbers (attachment to reply 66) and advise if I played correctly with the numbers in that session?
Quote from: Bettor 27 on Nov 29, 08:11 AM 2012
Hi Sam,
I'm sure Flat said when in positive territory to reset progression to 1.
So using your data, after the cycle ends at row 63, we reset to 1 unit progression as we are at a new high.
Finished your numbers at -45
Regards
B27
NUMBER 30/15/ SHOULD BE A WIN
ou actually won your last session after you hit 117 units. After that you almost hit a stop-loss.
You are wrong, but my days with this farce are over. FlAtMaN specifically said you must continue on until a sequence of nine ends. Never end in the middle--so I didn't. I'm sure he'll say he didn't say that, but he did.
I'm done with this. Anyone blame me?
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 29, 10:02 AM 2012
ou actually won your last session after you hit 117 units. After that you almost hit a stop-loss.
Ididn't even continue testing after realising that that session hasn't got 300 or more spins as rules required.Farce is your sentence bellow,you are farce making much ado about nothing,
You are wrong, but my days with this farce are over. FlAtMaN specifically said you must continue on until a sequence of nine ends. Never end in the middle--so I didn't. I'm sure he'll say he didn't say that, but he did.
Am constantly repeating end session after cycle of 9 spins,AND ONLY SESSIONS 300 OR OVER SPINS.And I repeated it many times all over.
I'm done with this. Anyone blame me?
You opened the thread/wondered why,but know it now/you making your own rules over the author required rules,you even opened a second thread traying to suggest that my excel may be fabricated when you compared it with yours,even thought earlier then you opened the thread,
YOU KNEW THESE EXCELS WOULDN'T MATCH --couse in my replay 40 I TOLD YOU THAT I DELETED ALL THESE DOUBLE NUMBERS IN MY EXCELS.
You know Sam,ever since that Buffalo chap insulted me in your thread,and you didn't deleted it,I
become thinking,this is not that Sam I knew earlier.Yep,some ppl.change as they get older.
First you took JL on your list,then now me/here you are making grande fool of yourself/wonder who
is next...and now you can close the curtains the the theatre is over.
Sam
Quote from: Stepkevh on Nov 28, 05:50 PM 2012
Here you go Sam and others.
Trackers for Flats 9 Last/Furthest splits with the 9 cycle.
Stephan
Dude you rock ;)
thanks for all your help
Quote from: soggett on Nov 29, 03:25 PM 2012
Dude you rock ;)
thanks for all your help
I've already gotten names like "Excel-meister" or "his EXCELlense"
So that means something i think ;D :thumbsup:
Flat
You can not blame Sam. In his 2nd or 3rd test he almost lost his BR. Ok he did not complete required 300 spins but you need to look at a bigger picture here. And i wonder why you suddenly want to play it on RNG after you always advised to avoid it?
you can set the stop-loss limit in the sheet.
Flat mentioned somewhere that the minimum stop win is 72 units.
so on line 75 you won 90 units :)
Stef
Yes, I did. And I will set the stop-win.
So that was a winner instead of a loser. I'll edit the sheet.
Thanks.
Sam
All
I have deleted post 77 as it was wrong on the sheet. Here is the corrected one and the numbers.
Thanks to Stef for pointing this out.
Sam
Another test; table 4. All others did not have the required 300 spins.
Very good results!!
two more very good
Guys
Here are 4 more very good.
NOTICE
Since He Himself has left the fray, I think I'll just do things my way!
I will use any and all trots if they win before they run out of numbers. If the trot has NOT won and runs out of numbers, you won't know about it. I'll toss it.
I will quit on a stop win. I will not go to the end of the nine sequence. This is just not logical.
Sam
Three more. Table 3 is the RFH.
One last one for a while. Very good.
I have created a spreadsheet with all the information. See for yourself. This will be modified.
Doing every table every day. I know FLAT is reading this and he must be busting a gut!! or G.U.T. :thumbsup:
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 01, 12:51 PM 2012
Doing every table every day. I know FLAT is reading this and he must be busting a gut!! or G.U.T. :thumbsup:
Does this mean an apology is owed to FLAT? cuz he was pretty much called a liar and scammer in other threads because of this so called fiasco.
Tony
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 01, 09:46 AM 2012
NOTICE
I will quit on a stop-win. I will not go to the end of the nine sequence. This is just not logical.
Sam
Totally agree with you on that.
Tony
Tony
Thanks for that! Three really good trots!
Sam
Does this mean an apology is owed to FLAT? cuz he was pretty much called a liar and scammer in other threads because of this so called fiasco.
TonyTony,
I can't help what FLATman was called. I didn't call him any bad names and I need not apologise. If you read my posts to him they are nothing but complimentary. I tried to understand with virtually no help from him. When the first trot failed, he began impuning my character. Saying I had made up rules.
I will say this--the old man is a hothead. Says he's killed many in the war. I think that is his method of handling any disappointment--just kill the batards!!
I owe no an apology except those to whom I have apologised. This may turn out good after all.
Stay tuned!!
Sam
By the way, could you link those threads where he was called a liar and a scammer? I read a lot and I have not seen it.
Sam
And by the way again--------------
I have received four PMs from four very respectable members of forums who tell me that they did their best to understand his "Promised Winning Bet" and all they got was vitriol from him.
He takes misunderstanding for an attack on his--what?--character? Intelligence? Honesty?
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 01, 01:44 PM 2012
Does this mean an apology is owed to FLAT? cuz he was pretty much called a liar and scammer in other threads because of this so called fiasco.
TonyTony,
I can't help what FLATman was called. I didn't call him any bad names and I need not apologise. If you read my posts to him they are nothing but complimentary. I tried to understand with virtually no help from him. When the first trot failed, he began impuning my character. Saying I had made up rules.
I will say this--the old man is a hothead. Says he's killed many in the war. I think that is his method of handling any disappointment--just kill the batards!!
I owe no an apology except those to whom I have apologised. This may turn out good after all.
Stay tuned!!
Sam
Yeah I did get that impression too that he is a hothead or maybe more like a grumpy old man. Plus the language barrier didn't help either. I know you don't owe him an apology but if his system does work it would be too bad to have let him go from this forum. probably too early to draw a conclusion so we'll see. Let's all hope it's a winner.
Tony
Watch my threads!
Folks, it doesn't get any better than December 1st!!
I'm noticing my tests are a lot better than flats.
"They framed a guilty man."
Think on that one!
Sam
Sam
You will get typical swings in a strike rate. You need to ask yourself why this thing is supposed to be a winner. Its another method that due to explanation issues raised too much attention. We had lines,splits,sectors,finales here using the same rolling bet concept and requirement of 300 spins sessions. This bet wins if at the right moments you encounter series of repeats and loses when chops prevail. There is no magic. In your testing it happened once in 22 games, in my case 2 times and Ray lost his first game. Flat just could not lose.
Regards
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 02, 03:11 AM 2012
I think he doctored his sheets! I think he put in numbers to make the sheets win. I do not think the numbers are directly from Spielbank or they would not be labeled LvF-7. What does that mean? Mine have the date and table so anyone can check me out.
Sam, FLAT paste all the sheets with the date and table, is possible check the numbers.
Regards
Yes, I guess you are right. I am grabbing for a life preserver here.
Sorry, FLAtman. That was over the top on my part.
Sam
Trots for December 2, 2012
A conundrum: If the tracker is right--and it is---why don't I get the same results for FLAT's sheets as he does? And if he made mistakes--as we all do--on those sheets, how did he win?
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 02, 06:43 PM 2012
Trots for December 2, 2012
These results are pretty good if you ask me...
Tony
They certainly are! Let's hope it continues throughout December.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 02, 11:01 PM 2012
They certainly are! Let's hope it continues throughout December.
------------
for what is worth, i tested 20 sections (no loss) using FTL EC (whichever of the 3), playing to +10 and same cycles of 9.... much easier to track and to place bets
vundarosa
Quote from: vundarosa on Dec 02, 11:16 PM 2012
------------
for what is worth, i tested 20 sections (no loss) using FTL EC (whichever of the 3), playing to +10 and same cycles of 9.... much easier to track and to place bets
vundarosa
I also suggested playing like this before but it did not sit well with Flat. ;D On other hand playing for +5 risking 100 can give you long winning runs. Using air ball actuals i lost 2 out of 22 sessions testing with Stef tracker. Sam has 26/1. These are just typical results in my opinion.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Dec 02, 11:27 PM 2012
I also suggested playing like this before but it did not sit well with Flat. ;D On other hand playing for +5 risking 100 can give you long winning runs. Using air ball actuals i lost 2 out of 22 sessions testing with Stef tracker. Sam has 26/1. These are just typical results in my opinion.
Are you all using the 1400 stop loss criteria then? or the 400 suggested by Sam?
Tony
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Dec 02, 11:27 PM 2012
On other hand playing for +5 risking 100 can give you long winning runs.
--------------
that's just what i am looking for.....i test with small unit value and if the trend continues, it will justify some real BR investment.....
vundarosa
Quote from: tonynewlife on Dec 02, 11:36 PM 2012
Are you all using the 1400 stop-loss criteria then? or the 400 suggested by Sam?
Tony
I used in my testing 1440 stop loss and 72 win goal and tested using actuals from SMLive posted here on this forum. Flat suggested testing only on live wheel but he played it on air ball. It was a case of reversed engineering. He just only accepted the data that confirmed his theories.
It was a case of reversed engineering. He just only accepted the data that confirmed his theories.
I felt that, too.
What impressed me was all the sheets he put up from the other members. You know, the 300 spins each thing.
HELLO
I still have those sheets on my wife's computer!! I'll do the Stef test on them and get back to you!!
Sam
Great Monday!
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 03, 11:12 PM 2012
Great Monday!
Nice way to start the week Sam!
Tony
Thank you, tony. I know FLATman is reading it because he sends me hate mail.
Wouldn't it be something if this works and he's not here for the accolades?
Good work, FLATman.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 04, 04:17 AM 2012
Thank you, tony. I know FLATman is reading it because he sends me hate mail.
Wouldn't it be something if this works and he's not here for the accolades?
Good work, FLATman.
Sam
Yeah no kidding lol
Tony
Lookin' good in the neighborhood!
I see folks are downloading so I'll continue.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 06, 12:14 AM 2012
I see folks are downloading so I'll continue.
Oh yeah Sam, I'm always following....:)
Quick question for ya, I noticed the tracker created by Steph uses the +1/-1 progression instead of the leveled progression suggested by Sam which I pasted below:
Switch after each lose.progression 1+1- L/W......but so called leveled progression...I do it
by head but there is a formula I have maded...for instance ....you losing 400 on progress. 8...won
240......now 400 divided by 8 = 50.........240 divided by 50 = 5...so next bet would be 5....hoppe you got what I mean.No from 8 to 7 after such win.Is that correct?
Thanks
Tony
Correction I meant to say "the leveled progression suggested by Flatman"
Sorry
Tony
the leveled progr that Flat suggested for this latest LvF system is that there needs to be a check every 9 spins.
if your balance is higher then previous 9th balance then it goes 1 down.
if the balance is lower then previous 9th balance then it rises 1.
and thats what the tracker does, every 9th spin it checks the balance and goes 1+ or 1-
I also coded it in my excel bot and gonna let it run for a while
Stef
Personally, I don't think this system needs anything but someone with the bankroll to play it. After all my testing, allowing for a $400 stop-loss, you would be ahead almost 2,500 units.
This is not pie in the sky. This is a real test with real numbers anyone can verify and AND AND duplicate.
Duplication is the key word. If you can't duplicate it, it is false!
I never accused FLATman of being wrong; I just did not understand it. Now there is nothing to understand.
Sam
That is...........thanks to Stef there is nothing to understand.
Stef
If this keeps up, the day will come I'll make money with it and you will be paid a nice chunk! My word!
Sam,
I'll keep you on that ;D
Its nice if my work should get a little effort :)
Stef
I'm only 66. I'll be around a while. Let's see how December pans out.
Let's quit chasin' the Dog and take a look at what FlAtMaN has done!!
Quote from: Stepkevh on Dec 06, 01:56 AM 2012
the leveled progr that Flat suggested for this latest LvF system is that there needs to be a check every 9 spins.
if your balance is higher then previous 9th balance then it goes 1 down.
if the balance is lower then previous 9th balance then it rises 1.
and that's what the tracker does, every 9th spin it checks the balance and goes 1+ or 1-
I also coded it in my excel bot and gonna let it run for a while
Stef
thank you for your response, I just wanted to make sure. Nice job with the tracker by the way.
Tony
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 06, 03:13 AM 2012
Personally, I don't think this system needs anything but someone with the bankroll to play it. After all my testing, allowing for a $400 stop-loss, you would be ahead almost 2,500 units.
This is not pie in the sky. This is a real test with real numbers anyone can verify and AND AND duplicate.
Duplication is the key word. If you can't duplicate it, it is false!
I never accused FLATman of being wrong; I just did not understand it. Now there is nothing to understand.
Sam
That is...........thanks to Stef there is nothing to understand.
Stef
If this keeps up, the day will come I'll make money with it and you will be paid a nice chunk! My word!
I wonder how this baby would behave on a double zero game. Sam you and I live in USA and we know we don't have European roulette tables here. I hope the behavior will be the same or at least similar.
What are your thoughts on that?
Tony
Tony
My thoughts are exactly the same as always---you have one extra enemy out to get you! As you well know, it's not the zeros so much, but where they fall in the numbers and whether those are winning numbers or loosing numbers. Sometimes the 00 would not even hurt; sometimes it might kill you.
I will test it for real on our 00 wheels.
Sam
You can test the tracker for 00 wheels also.
If you input 00 data in the sheet, the sheet automaticly makes a 0 from the 00
because 00 doesnt exist in excel, thats a 0.
Just for info ;D
And a 0 or 00 doesnt matter for the bet in the sheet because it isnt used in the bet its
only used for W or L
Stef
Stef
Thanks for that!!
Are you watching what your tracker is doing with FLAT's system?? Well, this ol' Redneck is pretty darn impressed. (Yes, I know the worm can turn!)
FLAT may have been a hot head and all, but he may also be a genius.
What if everything he told us was the truth?
Think I'll find out!!
Sam
Sam, when i was reading your posts on forum in past I noticed that you're a good guy but very naive.
I do not know if your job now is that you provoke people, but it looks so!
u say: Are you watching what your tracker is doing with FLAT's system??
i ask: can you post the f****** graphics with number of spins???!! or do not talk nonsense
and u say: What if everything he told us was the truth?
i ask: What if everything he told us was not the truth?
...just think about something before you write
Speed
I have no idea what "graphics" you are talking about. I post the Excel sheet. That's all I know to post. The numbers are on Spielbank for everyone to see and test if they desire.
Tell me what more you want---or anyone else who knows what he means---and I will happily post the information.
Sam
Quote from: speed on Dec 07, 10:59 AM 2012
Sam, when i was reading your posts on forum in past I noticed that you're a good guy but very naive.
I do not know if your job now is that you provoke people, but it looks so!
u say: Are you watching what your tracker is doing with FLAT's system??
i ask: can you post the f****** graphics with number of spins???!! or do not talk nonsense
and u say: What if everything he told us was the truth?
i ask: What if everything he told us was not the truth?
...just think about something before you write
Speed
If everything he told us was not the truth, I will learn that. This is a test, you know.
If by graphics you mean a chart or graph, I simply do not know how to make one. Now, I could make one one paper--a Redneck graph--but that's it.
I'd like to know what you mean by "talking nonsense".
FORUM MEMBERS: Do any of you have the same complaint with me as this man? If you do, would you please explain it? I am totally lost.
Sam
Quote from: speed on Dec 07, 10:59 AM 2012
Sam, when i was reading your posts on forum in past I noticed that you're a good guy but very naive.
I do not know if your job now is that you provoke people, but it looks so!
u say: Are you watching what your tracker is doing with FLAT's system??
i ask: can you post the f****** graphics with number of spins???!! or do not talk nonsense
and u say: What if everything he told us was the truth?
i ask: What if everything he told us was not the truth?
...just think about something before you write
Speed
Can you point out an instance where I provoked or tried to provoke anyone? I mean, I chided Jl quite a bit but he and I are OK.
I just really don't get your anger.
At least you called me a "good guy". Thanks for that.
Sam
GOOD LORD, forum. I just figured it out.
Geez, what a compliment Speed has given me (us)!!
It's now a puzzle. I'll fax a pizza to he who answers the riddle.
I'm off to lunch!!
Thank you, Speed.
Sam
2Cat,
From time to time there are unkind remarks.
Your energy is best spent reading and replying to constructive posts, working on and testing methods.
We all know when a post is just negative and are not surprised if they are not replied to.
I am curious as to your results so far.
Also, is Flat now no longer on the forum?
ps Speed
Please take into consideration how your posts can effect a lot of people. Everytime I read a post that is unfriendly it gets me down a little.
AMK
Thanks for that. Now to your post:
I am curious as to your results so far. Setting a loss limit of 400, you would be up around 2,700. Will this hold up? If I knew the future, I'd be in Vegas this very minute. This is a test. Before we declare FLAT a genius, let's let the test run a while.
Also, is Flat now no longer on the forum? FLAT got so mad at me for trying to be his friend, he opted out of the forum. Fair minded people will tell you all I ever wanted was to learn his rules and test with Stef's tracker. Called me an old alcoholic pis.sing all over myself. Really cruel but that's his issue, not mine.
TwoCatSam
I opened an email from FlAtMaN. He very well understands what is going on. He is reading the forum.
Sam
Three very good trots and one that got dangerously close to the loss limit.
All in all, I'd take it!!
You can due it 2Cat!
I am only the putter-inner-of-numbers.
FLATman is the brains behind it. Stef wrote the tracker.
Let's all hope this frippin' thing holds up for thousands of spins and we can all make a buck.
Then, like Scotty the Dog, we will be banned from the casinos!
Samster
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 07, 12:12 PM 2012
Speed
If everything he told us was not the truth, I will learn that. This is a test, you know.
If by graphics you mean a chart or graph, I simply do not know how to make one. Now, I could make one one paper--a Redneck graph--but that's it.
I'd like to know what you mean by "talking nonsense".
FORUM MEMBERS: Do any of you have the same complaint with me as this man? If you do, would you please explain it? I am totally lost.
Sam
I was totally lost when I read Speed's message too so I don't blame you Sam. All I know is that you and Stef are doing an awesome job, keep it up guys!
Tony
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 07, 06:21 PM 2012
Three very good trots and one that got dangerously close to the loss limit.
All in all, I'd take it!!
Even if one trot was a loss you'd be way ahead so no biggie lol
Tony
Gentlemen
I've been around this game long enough to know we could just be riding a hot streak. It could turn cold at any minute. So I'll not pop any corks just yet, but I am optimistic.
As tony pointed out, we don't have to win 'em all--just enough of 'em!
Sam
Sam,
It looks like I'll have to explain my every sentence separately
Sam, when i was reading your posts on forum in past I noticed that you're a good guy but very naive.
(You're naive because after all the evidence u still believe F_LAT_INO and JL and all others new members who promised winning system without any evidence)
I do not know if your job now is that you provoke people, but it looks so!
(your last 20 posts its about F_LAT_INO, its looks like u talking to as like we are all who don't believe him are silly because we accused him for his lies)
u say: Are you watching what your tracker is doing with FLAT's system??
i ask: can you post the f****** graphics with number of spins???!! or do not talk nonsense
(In the past you post graphs so you know very well what I mean! Do you know how much number of spins system need to pass to be considered by potential winner (i think minimum 1 000 000) and u post system in exel that pass 300 spins and say F_LAT_INO is right....ridiculously)
and u say: What if everything he told us was the truth?
i ask: What if everything he told us was not the truth?
(I mean you warn us about consequences if we are wrong, but you don 't understand consequences if you're wrong)
...just think about something before you write
I think you've been a good member of this forum a long time, and I see that you become a moderator on another forum, you're not a beginner, so you should understand all this that I just said
I totally understand; I just don't agree.
Speed
In the past I did post graphs, but they were a part of the Super Roulette robot. I don't know how to make graphs. If some person on this forum would begin a graph and I could just plug in the numbers, I would do it.
I am very busy. I don't want to learn new things!
But since you want a graph, I made you one. For all intents and purposes, it is factual. It does not show the draw downs of less that $400.00.
Your hatred for FlAtMaN is noted. You might want to consider this: "
Hate is an acid which destroys the vessel that contains it." FLAT and I locked horns and he does have a short fuse--but no one has ever posted a system that has done what his has done...so far. You need not preach to me about a million spins. I ran several million through the Super Roulette Bot. Even bought a computer to dedicate just to that purpose!
All of the vitriol you spew out will not make me stop the test--which is ultimately what you'd like. It will literally kill your soul if that old Croat has a winning system.
The rest of us will rejoice!
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 08, 11:18 PM 2012
Speed
In the past I did post graphs, but they were a part of the Super Roulette robot. I don't know how to make graphs. If some person on this forum would begin a graph and I could just plug in the numbers, I would do it.
I am very busy. I don't want to learn new things!
But since you want a graph, I made you one. For all intents and purposes, it is factual. It does not show the draw downs of less that $400.00.
Your hatred for FlAtMaN is noted. You might want to consider this: "
Hate is an acid which destroys the vessel that contains it." FLAT and I locked horns and he does have a short fuse--but no one has ever posted a system that has done what his has done...so far. You need not preach to me about a million spins. I ran several million through the Super Roulette Bot. Even bought a computer to dedicate just to that purpose!
All of the vitriol you spew out will not make me stop the test--which is ultimately what you'd like. It will literally kill your soul if that old Croat has a winning system.
The rest of us will rejoice!
Sam
Haha your graph was hilarious Sam.
Tony
Just a quick session tonight at smart live casino (fun mode of course).
Tony
I just got done with this session, second of the night, spins are in the attached graphic in my previous post.
Tony
Sam do and post what u think is right. Apart from "personal issues" some people have with each other. Roulette has nothing to do with that. The ball does not care who predicts where it lands -- Serb, Croat or American. Neither do I. I think neither do you.
Ok a third one and maybe the last one for the night.
Tony
iggiv
You are right. I don't care what a man's nationality, religion, sexual preference, or color is or any other thing you can think of. And neither does the ball. On the other hand, writing in letters as big as Dallas is, what?, demeaning, offensive....whatever word you want.
iggiv, if the test was going badly and I reported it, do you think I would have gotten the same post from Speed?
I don't want to be involved in the Serbian/Croatian war, but I will tell you this: Speed cannot slam FLAT because he's no longer here so he attacks me. What that tells me is Speed is terrified the system will work. He could just as easily slam soggett, trebor and Stef as they are part of this test. Without them, there would be no test--especially Stef. But I'm the one posting the results.
And, honestly now, anyone who looks at my progress chart--do they need a graph? Can't you see it in your mind? I can!
Speed has paid FLAT the ultimate compliment. FLAT emailed me. He knows it.
Sam
Please stop praising me :-[ :-[ ;D
Sam, if i find a hole somewhere i try to make a chart in excel that follows your winnings / losses.
Its something else then making a tracker or coding a bot ;D
Sam,
It's kind of you to credit me with helping with the test but to set the record straight I'm not at the moment.
One thing is I've little time to spare at the moment, also until I update my excel I can't use the tracker which would be a right pain.
Being a skinflint I'm trying to get it for free, (Bill Gates has had enough of my money) but no luck so far.
Maybe I'll splash out, your results certainly encourage me to.
Trebor
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 07, 12:06 PM 2012
Tell me what more you want---or anyone else who knows what he means---and I will happily post the information.
Sam
Sam, if you can link together all the posts where you have attached unique Excel sheets which meet the standards of correctness, i will put them all together and make a graph. I might even come up with an easy way for you to do it yourself.
trebor,
i pm'ed you :-)
My 5 cents:
Mr. Flat wants to give us SOMETHING without giving us THE THING. It's like lending us an old Volkswagen beetle which, with some tweaking, could get us there. Flat personally probably drives Ferrari (who in the right mind would give you keys?).
This bet is attempt to bruteforce no win, no lose bet using experience and good money management.
At first glance this bet should be same as betting penultimate EC:
RR - last color repeated repeated so we bet on last - R
BR - we bet on furtherest (chop) - B
Premise is - Last vs. furtherest concept is more balanced if we use it
on more precise bets:
L vs. F on EC (R/B, E/O, H/L) - 1 vs. 1
L vs. F on lines - 3 vs. 3
L vs F on crossings 4 or 5 vs. 4 or 5
L vs F on streets 6 vs. 6
L vs F on splits 9 vs. 9
Could it mean that last 18 vs. furtherest 18 numbers will give us best results?
Also could be worth looking into length of Last vs. length of furtherest runs.
Is FFFFFLLLLFFFLFLFFF different from RBBBRRRRRBRBB (random example only)?
I respect Flat's work and believe man has mastered the game and that we can all learn something useful.
@Sam
Thank you mr. Sam for all tests, keep them coming because you are one good, realistic, unbiased gentleman.
BTW i'm from Serbia too. Let's not jump into conclusions, generalise or judge people nor their bets before
giving them chance to shine.
There is a tracker made by Stef that generates random spins by pressing F9 button. You can test this to death. If you expect to duplicate the testing results in a real play just go ahead. If you get a string of repeaters you win a session, if you get chops you lose. If you expect to get more repeaters in splits or sectors than on any EC in 300 spins you are mistaken. Just use a common sense. I know that Sam had a pretty good run with that in testing. Flat experimented with a progression now Sam wants to change a stop loss. Its just a guessing game. Few series of chops will kill your BR no matter what you do. There is no use for any charts.
Zdravo Paja!
nobody generalizes here. All people are people, and bad characters can be from anywhere
:)
Nice to see another guy from your region.
Stef-----OK! Sorry!
______________________________
trebor-----you helped explain it.
________________________________
I simply like to give credit where credit is due.
_____________________________________
Still-----------thanks but I don't need a graph. You see, I'm doing this primarily for me. Thought some others would like to share in the results.
_____________________________
Matt---------I know. It's all going to turn around and when I play for real. I'll lose me arse. Thank you for that warning.
___________________________________
Paja--------No one could pull a post where I have maligned any person for their country of origin. I am not necessarily judging Speed; I am simply stating a fact.
The only person I don't understand in this post is Matt. Brother, what would you have us do? Just stop everything because the devil is hiding behind a tree? Do I know the run from hell is out there? I think I coined that phrase. Sure I do.
And before we continue to crucify Jl, I've been giving a lot--and I mean a lot--of study to his HAR idea. He may very well be right. Yes, the thought he could be right flies in the face of math and logic. But he could be. Maybe not.
So--------------------
Apologies to all I've offended. The test will continue. The results will be what the results will be.
TwoCatSam
I have an idea!! Let's get back to the test at hand!!
Another 314 units made.
Hi.
Is there a post of the definitive rules for this so I could try it out?
The only rules that I know of that are understandable are in the video I made which soggett verified was correct. Stef (no praise here ;) ) made the tracker according to that video. I don't know where the video is, but I could look on my U-tube account and link it again if you'd like.
So, as far as I'm concerned the tracker is the rules.
I could never understand FlAtMaN's rules as he wrote them.
Sam
Aw, what the heck!! I'm such a stand-up guy (pat pat) that I linked it without being asked.
Sam's Explanation of L v F II (link:://:.youtube.com/watch?v=ppSd1hOUFIM#)
Thanks Sam I'll have a look see.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 09, 10:13 AM 2012
I have an idea!! Let's get back to the test at hand!!
Another 314 units made.
Nice sessions Sam!
Tony
I have attached my last three sessions from smart live casino. Like Flatman suggested this should only be played in real games no RNGs as I got some bad sessions playing RNG.
Where can I get more live spins? without having to waiting for the ball to be spun.
Thanks in advance!
Tony
tony
I hate to break this to you, but those were good trots. I can see no place where you hit the $400 stop loss. You made money on each one.
To answer your question: go to Spielbank Wesibaden and you can download a million spins that were produced on real tables. They are archived.
Please don't use December of this year or we will be duplicating each other. Go back a year or so.
Thanks for your support.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 09, 01:36 PM 2012
tony
I hate to break this to you, but those were good trots. I can see no place where you hit the $400 stop-loss. You made money on each one.
To answer your question: go to Spielbank Wesibaden and you can download a million spins that were produced on real tables. They are archived.
Please don't use December of this year or we will be duplicating each other. Go back a year or so.
Thanks for your support.
Sam
Sounds good, thanks for the info. Last night I think I almost had a bad session as my balance was -200 and something but then I couldn't finish the session as smart live casino stopped broadcasting but I will keep testing and posting. Please do the same.
Thanks Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 08, 11:18 PM 2012
Speed
In the past I did post graphs, but they were a part of the Super Roulette robot. I don't know how to make graphs. If some person on this forum would begin a graph and I could just plug in the numbers, I would do it.
I am very busy. I don't want to learn new things!
But since you want a graph, I made you one. For all intents and purposes, it is factual. It does not show the draw downs of less that $400.00.
Your hatred for FlAtMaN is noted. You might want to consider this: "
Hate is an acid which destroys the vessel that contains it." FLAT and I locked horns and he does have a short fuse--but no one has ever posted a system that has done what his has done...so far. You need not preach to me about a million spins. I ran several million through the Super Roulette Bot. Even bought a computer to dedicate just to that purpose!
All of the vitriol you spew out will not make me stop the test--which is ultimately what you'd like. It will literally kill your soul if that old Croat has a winning system.
The rest of us will rejoice!
Sam
You're more naive than I thought.
ONLY FACTS1. I never mentioned anything about Croats and Serbs. (it simply imagining your sick friend)
2. In real life, I have several good friends who is Croats.
3. The only one here on forum who mentioned the conflict between Croats and Serbs is F_LAT_INO (it is one of the reasons why he got ban)
4. He called me publicly Serbian fascists, and I did not say anything to him because I realized that this man is first of all sick.
5. He threatened to kill Turner, because in his country people are doing this or something like that ;D
6. Post any evidence that some system works, but not on 100 spins, on 1 000 000 and then we maybe start believe Flat or JL or anyone. (your evidence with 80 spins are really funny)
By the way,, this forum serves me as reading of newspapers, but sometimes I get tired like now explaining some simple things to people who do not want or can't to understand
With Stefs help I've got excel 2007 so I'll do some testing given time.
Now I've looked at the tracker I'm not sure how to use it. Is there info somewhere saying what the different columns do?
Trebor
Speed
I'll not waste any more time with you. I will not delete your posts.
Sam
Quote from: trebor on Dec 09, 02:16 PM 2012
With Stefs help I've got excel 2007 so I'll do some testing given time.
Now I've looked at the tracker I'm not sure how to use it. Is there info somewhere saying what the different columns do?
Trebor
Just start to input your first number in cell A3 and go down for the next number in A4 and so on.
At some point the tracker will tell you when to bet on what and for how much ;-)
Stef
trebor
Not sure what you mean. You put in the number that came and wait until you have the last nine splits show. You just start betting and put in each number that comes.
I pay no attention to anything to the right of the running total column. I set the stop loss at 400 and the win at 72.
Of course what I am doing is cutting and pasting from Spielbank, not inputing numbers as they are spun.
Hope that clear is up. I'll attach the version I'm using.
Try it; you'll like it!!
Sam
Sam,
Then I will no longer mix in your belief.
I just tried to help, but I am sure you will sooner or later realize that. :thumbsup:
speed
Attached are the spins from spielbank for the first 5 days of december (1st - 5th) of 2011.
Tony
Tony,
so when you celebrate newyear its going to be 2012 for you :lol:
Quote from: Stepkevh on Dec 09, 03:25 PM 2012
Tony,
so when you celebrate newyear its going to be 2012 for you :LoL:
Haha that was a good one!
Tony
tony
Thank you for backing me up. What a pot full of fine, profitable trots.
Sam
well, that's hell of help-- bring me a graph of million spins won, then i will tell u that your method works.
I can also suggest a help -- bring me 100 pounds of gold and i will tell u what to do with it.
;D ;D ;D
in reality u don't need million spins -- that's illogical. You can even find a billion spins -- many of us already can tell the result. No method can have good results after playing so many spins in a row.
if u find a method which will win after billion of spins You can get 20 k dollars from Wizard of Odds.
So far nobody has been able to get it.
link:://wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems/challenge/rainsong/ (link:://wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems/challenge/rainsong/)
and that's what he says about gambler fallacy. Real gambler fallacy, not imaginary one.
link:://wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems/ (link:://wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems/)
and he is a real mccoy, not a college boy full of himself telling fairy tales
link:://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shackleford (link:://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shackleford)
Sam!
Use your common sense, use your experience, test the method which u think could be good. Test it like this and like that. For that many spins and for that few. Skip that many and that few.
Work with RX. Pretty soon u will know the result after testing it on 30 different wheels.
someone calls u naive, but he is naive himself thinking he KNOWS IT. in fact he doesn't.
44 spins Playtech Live. Not bad!
iggiv
Thanks for those encouraging words.
Virgil
Thanks for posting your results. FlAtMaN must be loving this!!
Sam
Gadzooks!! Bit of a downturn today!!
I will tally and post a yellow strip every five days.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 09, 09:55 PM 2012
Gadzooks!! Bit of a downturn today!!
I will tally and post a yellow strip every five days.
Oh well, we knew we were gonna find a losing session eventually, let's keep testing this baby!
Tony
Dec (6th - 10th) 2011, table 2
Tony
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 09, 04:36 PM 2012
tony
Thank you for backing me up. What a pot full of fine, profitable trots.
Sam
No problem, I agree good trots :thumbsup:
Tony
Quote from: tonynewlife on Dec 09, 01:30 PM 2012
I have attached my last three sessions from smart live casino. Like Flatman suggested this should only be played in real games no RNGs as I got some bad sessions playing RNG.
Where can I get more live spins? without having to waiting for the ball to be spun.
Thanks in advance!
Tony
Read whole thread here. Flat wanted to play it also on BV but was against testing on RNG. There might be an issue with some RNG not being fair but for testing its a different story. ;D
These tests are from a long list of Dublinbet actuals that were posted a while back.
The list is 2400 and I have pasted approx 300 long runs. They follow on directly and when you look at the second test belief in hit and run becomes more attractive.
Or is it the feared and dreaded Trebor jinx :)
Trebor
I see nothing wrong with these trots. You got a loser. I got one yesterday.
All we're hoping for is a profit at the end of the month. A few scattered losers here and there are to be expected.
(Cripes!! I sound just like Jl!)
Sam
(Really!)
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 10, 03:17 PM 2012
Trebor
I see nothing wrong with these trots. You got a loser. I got one yesterday.
All we're hoping for is a profit at the end of the month. A few scattered losers here and there are to be expected.
(Cripes!! I sound just like Jl!)
Sam
(Really!)
Yes I got a 5000 loss on an other method. But it was over 12000 plus before.
We talk of real play, but very low, 5000 a loss is 50 Euro which not hurt very much.
To never have a loss is very rare except in roulette forums, there we hardly see them.
Good luck with your play!!
Ralph,
Yes 50 euro is no real loss but I always judge it in relation to the win target.
Trebor
I don't really believe in jinxes Sam.
I'm a naturally optimistic chap, would I be playing roulette otherwise. :)
Trebor
Quote from: trebor on Dec 10, 03:49 PM 2012
Ralph,
Yes 50 euro is no real loss but I always judge it in relation to the win target.
Trebor
And of cource if the loss hurts,if then you play to high. Win target is an atempt which can be fullfilled or not.
Here's the next four.
I still don't believe in jinx's, it's just the way the numbers come out. >:(
Trebor
Quote from: trebor on Dec 10, 06:49 PM 2012
Here's the next four.
I still don't believe in jinx's, it's just the way the numbers come out. >:(
Trebor
Trebor
The original stop loss was 1440 in this method. And Flat just could not lose. You lost twice 1440 in 8 attempts. Its not jinx. Its just roulette ;D
Two bad trots in two days.
This should make Matt smile!!
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 10, 11:54 PM 2012
This should make Matt smile!!
Me too actually. ;D
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 10, 11:54 PM 2012
Two bad trots in two days.
This should make Matt smile!!
Sam
Sam
I dont have any personal agenda on this forum. I just dont like people relentlessly pushing their ideas and branding them "constant winning bets" as it was the case with Flat. It started with "Promised constant winning bet" thread and continued with a whole array of off shots involving sectors,splits,lines,finales etc. Recently we had some stories about some bets and guy winning 270000 Euros with this method after he lost a bet with Flat for 1000 Euro. Thanks to Stef tracker the testing can be done quickly and it just shows that this is just as randomly winning bet as any method. And im actually sad after all this hype. :-X
Regards
Matt
You've struck me as a fine feller as long as I've been reading your posts. I agree--too much bloviation ruins the stew!!
People get excited! I speak from personal experience. I have told my wife things I later regretted. I thought a system was infallable only to find out I was riding a trend. Now I say to myself daily, "This is a test. This is only a test."
Do I have high hopes for the L v F? You bet! Will it fail? Who knows? Is there even a test that can definitively say that a system works or fails? Probably not. So I just plod along, cutting and pasting, hoping for the best.
I will say this: Because of all the testing and studying I have done, I am further down the road to success than I was three or four years ago so all the work has not been in vain. I have learned the only true way to ever win is to ride a positive trend. FlAtMaN's L v F tries to do that. It goes with the wind, not against it.
I feel that when I succeed--and I will--I will have turned a fascinating study and search into a low-paying part-time job.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 11, 01:10 AM 2012
I feel that when I succeed--and I will--I will have turned a fascinating study and search into a low-paying part-time job.
Sam
My sincere best wishes for that.
Ok guys here are my results for the whole month of december 2011. As you can see it's in the negative zone.
Tony
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Dec 11, 12:44 AM 2012
Sam
I don't have any personal agenda on this forum. I just don't like people relentlessly pushing their ideas and branding them "constant winning bets" as it was the case with Flat. It started with "Promised constant winning bet" thread and continued with a whole array of off shots involving sectors,splits,lines,finales etc. Recently we had some stories about some bets and guy winning 270000 Euros with this method after he lost a bet with Flat for 1000 Euro. Thanks to Stef tracker the testing can be done quickly and it just shows that this is just as randomly winning bet as any method. And I'm actually sad after all this hype. :-X
Regards
I am signing this.
tony
How could you lose less than 400? You either go until you win 72 or lose 400. One was -54 or something. I don't understand.
But thanks for testing. I'll plod along. Just kiillin' time 'till Jesus comes.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 11, 01:25 PM 2012
tony
How could you lose less than 400? You either go until you win 72 or lose 400. One was -54 or something. I don't understand.
That is because I ran out of of spins, you only get 300 and something spins so I was in the negative when my session ended. I had to take it as a loss.
Tony
Another four.
Trebor
Good grief! I rarely got to 200 spins in any of my trots.
In case the trackers were somehow different, I cut and pasted your numbers into my tracker. Same loss on the last trot.
Don't know what to think. I'm sure someone will tell me!! :thumbsup:
TwoCat
Sam,
I was interested in testing this because Flat asserted that it had less variance than other even chance bets. So far this doesn't seem to be the case.
On the other hand how may times have you had a system that can't seem to stop winning and then can't seem to stop losing.
I've found another file with 4000 Dublinbet numbers so I'll use those up and then review the situation.
I know folks will say that's nowhere near enough testing but if it's negative or near break even I'll probably call it a day.
Trebor
Close call today........
Not a good day at table 2.
I just realized they put up more spins for yesterday at table two and that caused a loser.
Worse than rat turds on your ice cream.
Next four. The results are in the title. Thought my luck had changed.
Trebor
Table 2 did not have enough to complete the test.
...........and so it goes........
Sam u better add a few words by yourself if u can please. I am not gonna open those sheets sorry,
but why not tell us how it goes more or less? thanx
iggiv
Just open the last one. It is a tally sheet. But the system is on a downturn. Two losses today.
Who knows?
Sam
OK, a rough five days. Went down around 500 units.
Today was much better.
Sam
if this is a rollercoaster, the method is not good. try to use short sessions and get small win goals.
proportionally u may get better. if u lose less and win less but still get a good percentage, u can use bigger units after and be better off. dont be too greedy.
and betting only 2 wheels is not good at all. u need many wheels, u need RX
iggiv
Would you care to suggest a win goal and stop loss? I am playing all four tables at Weisbaden. I am posting the numbers. There is a reason for this. In the event this should be a long-term winner, I don't want anyone saying I cooked the books.
With Rx you can shop for the screen shot you like. Don't tell me you can't! You can do that with RNG. But if you state in advance exactly which tables you are going to use and how you're going to use them, naysayers don't have a prayer.
Long before I knew you I called myself the "Master Testicator" because my tests are conducted with 100% transparency. Win or lose, the forum and the author know they got a fair test.
And that's the name of that tune......
Samster
Sam, win goals and stop losses are individual for each method and should be figured out from the tests.
There is a joke about a president of one East European republic which helped on the phone with potato selection. If i tell u about the win goal without testing a method i would look just like him in this joke.
Then I shall just plod along..........
yes, experiment....
as u know i prefer short sessions, long breaks. but that's me. Nothing works on millions spins in a row.
Been invited by my friend/probably Europe most known roulette player/to explain to him LvF 9 method.
Teach him how to play it on his home wheel,and third day we started to play it for real in casino Wien.
Started ok first couple first nights.I was playing small 10 euros per split,each hand 90 at the start,but my friend
plays much larger as he have agreed high limit there and in most casinos all over.Third night I won my 72 un/stop-win.....but my friend continued playing while I was dinning and resting watching the football match there.
When I comeback to the table he was so deep in the hole.Why????couse he didn't continued to play as we have
agreed,in cycles 9 spins,but doing 1+1- after each spin.So when we returned home he suggested that I play for
him with 15% earning of any winnings.So next few nights I won back 70% of his losings but was still 108 un in
minus/x1000/....on the way back home that morning show him TC Sam testings from Wiesbaden where he lost with same method on table 3.......tonight we be there and attack table 3 Franz announced......but I though he was joking.
No he wasn't...we where there in Wiesbaden casino that afternoon about 18 h.
And I did start there on table 3 from the first spin,reducing the Wien loses.Next day TC Sam reported los on table
7 and Franz insisted to play table 7 that night,which should have been our last as Franz had to be in Poland
next day.Won again on table 7,won back all loses and finished 27 un +....Fortunately Franz didn't get the
permission to fly next day and we were stack there for one more night......date 13....never liked to play on that date.So I suggested to Franz to attack all 4 tables...from 2,3,4,7 in that sequence...after any win/minimum 9/
swap the table........and now you can see in these attachm.what we did...enjoy.
Thanks Sam.
That's the post made by Flatman on other forum about his success with this method. Even most known player from Europe plays this. ;D I just could not resist posting it.
witch forum? i better fallow flatino, then ignatus
Quote from: biagle on Dec 16, 09:20 AM 2012
witch forum? i better fallow F_LAT_INO, then ignatus
b.e.t.s.e.l.e.c.t.i.o.n.cc
Ignatus is an entertaining and enthusiastic fellow. ;D
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Dec 16, 09:37 AM 2012
b.e.t.s.e.l.e.c.t.i.o.n
Can a Mod tell us why we can not write this quotted word without the dots?
Tks, nOrMy2o0o
@Robeenhuuut
...next time you plan on going to Wiesbaden, give me a note I would like to join !! Since I live 50 mins away from Wiesbaden.
So I can meet the people from the Forum in person. I think that is a nice thing..... Have a chat a drink and break the casino :twisted:
Ray
Norm, mon ami, i got no idea about this. I think it's just that some people got used to hiding addresses from web scanners for some reasons.
Ray read his post carefully. At first sight i was also surprised how come Rob would play this stuff he does not believe in...Then i realized it was copy-past from another forum, it was somebody else' story...
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 16, 12:07 PM 2012
Norm, mon ami, i got no idea about this. I think it's just that some people got used to hiding addresses from web scanners for some reasons.
Thank you Sir. 8)
Good Sunday..........
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 16, 08:22 PM 2012
Good Sunday..........
Nice Sam!, good to see that you are in the positive zone :)
Tony
Thanks, tony.
Remember, I'm just the guy plugging in the numbers. If anyone plays this for real, they do so at their own risk. I do not endorse it.
Sam
Hi ,it says ,stop loss at $ 400 ,does that mean the units are $1?
When it says 72 units ,is that $72 ?
thanks in advance .
regards,
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 16, 11:03 PM 2012
If anyone plays this for real, they do so at their own risk. I do not endorse it.
What a fast change of of thinking :P
Bad day at Black Rock..............
Another............
STOP THE PRESSES!!
I began playing the system on BV and found an error in the tracker. All who might be using the tracker: there is one error.
I noticed while playing, the splits did not appear as I thought they should. I put in the first nine splits and began checking each split as it came. All nine of the new splits (last) would appear at the end of the row except split 8. It never moves unless it is the first split hit after the last nine formed. Notice the red where the 8 never moved. I'll make a movie of this if need be.
Stef,
You may be sick of this thing and not even want to address this issue. I don't know. At this point, all my tests are in vain as there could be other errors. I have to say--in all honesty to FlAtMaN--he emailed me and told me the tracker was wrong.
Sam
Dont worry, i will change it.
I need to change it because someone uses it in a bot from me.
Stef
voila, fixed...
In fact it was'nt a major issue, i did'nt change anything in the betselection.
It could happen with any split (not only 8 split).
But its fixed now :-)
Stef
Thanks
I will run a spot check of all my saved Excel sheets and see what happens.
Sam
So does this mean that I would have to retest all my sheets? Is that what u will do Sam?
Tony
Tony
I have spot checked some sheets--and like Stef said--it's no big deal. This would throw you off so rarely it's not worth worrying about.
I'm just going to forge ahead.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 19, 03:12 PM 2012
Tony
I have spot checked some sheets--and like Stef said--it's no big deal. This would throw you off so rarely it's not worth worrying about.
I'm just going to forge ahead.
Sam
OK I was just wondering if my results were inaccurate due to this bug. I'll just get the fixed version then. Thanks Sam!
Tony
The L v F system seems to be in a bit of a recession.............
Quote from: tonynewlife on Dec 19, 03:42 PM 2012
OK I was just wondering if my results were inaccurate due to this bug. I'll just get the fixed version then. Thanks Sam!
Tony
Tony,
dont worry, everything stays valid
it was'nt a huge error that would present wrong outcomes :-)
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 16, 12:10 PM 2012
Ray read his post carefully. At first sight i was also surprised how come Rob would play this stuff he does not believe in...Then i realized it was copy-past from another forum, it was somebody else' story...
Spot on Iggiv ;D I'm just human and Flatman success story and that the "most known roulette player in Europe" became interested in this system just irritated the hell out of me.
So, Matt, do you think the FlAtMaN is bloviating?
Sam
Almost 2000 posts 2Cat!!!
(link:://rouletteforum.cc/avs/avatar_10.png)
Posts: 1999
MY BIG 2,000!
Lord, my life is on line! How can I criticize those who text at the dinner table? This is why I don't want any electronic device which would monitor the forums while I'm eating my bar-b-cue!
Thanks for the heads up, AMK.
Sam
ProofReader2000, nOrMy2o0o and now Sam2000 ^-^
Quote from: Stepkevh on Dec 20, 01:03 AM 2012
Tony,
don't worry, everything stays valid
it was'nt a huge error that would present wrong outcomes :-)
OK thanks stef
Seems the boat has a severe leak.............
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 20, 08:33 AM 2012
So, Matt, do you think the FlAtMaN is bloviating?
Sam
Yeah
Too much hype and success stories that dont prove anything. I wont say more because he is absent from the forum. And Sam you can test it faster by pressing F9 in Stef tracker. Flat was always against RNG but before he left he wanted to play it on BV. ;D And thanks for testing it.
If it fails,it fails.
I prefer real, verifiable numbers to the F9 test.
Had it been a winning system, there would be someone one this forum who said I just F9ed it until I got the results I wanted. And I could do that!
Testing that can't be verified is written on the wind.
Sam
Thought I'd give up, didn't you?
Sam,
I have been following this method and your test of it on a very casual basis, as a student of the game, but have not really immersed myself into it as it is just not a style of play I favor.
That being said, because this is a casual contact type thing for me there is the distinct possibility I am missing something in the whole scheme of things (maybe even missing some really big things).
I took 10 minutes on your results spreadsheet (no more in-depth analysis)...like I said this might be impractical with me glossing over most salient details.
I tallied 13 total non-recoverable losses at your 400 stop-loss.
I guess I am looking at his from a money management perspective.
If you stopped play at 100 down (just looking at your drawdown column) you would still have 68 wins...I didn't add up those wins but let's just call it 75 units for an average win...+5100
You now have 34 losses at the -100 including the 13 that took you out to your 400 stop-loss...so that's -3400...leaving you +1700 overall
Then you had 21 sessions that later would have recovered from the 100 stop-loss and went on to win. Now obviously some of these went below the 100 in real-time continuous play (11 of the 21 went beyond the 200 drawdown to later recover and only 2 went beyond 300 drawdown) So your point of re-entry into a subsequent session would be of critical importance to the test. My point being...there is more profit potential in the method by utilizing mid-session stop-loss points and then re-entering the game to complete...remember all 21 of these recovered from deficits of over 100 (11 of over 200 so there would be addiitonal stop-losses hit if the re-entry point wasn't good) to get you to a session ending victory in your tests...
This may all be completely redundant in the conversation on this method...Know (think I guess is better term) you are just testing per FLAT's specs on spin count and stop-loss points...
like I said...I have really not done a great job of studying this throughout it's development and all of these points may have been discussed and vetted throughout the process before you began your trek here....if that's the case...sorry for taking up a bunch of space on your testing post.
Just an outsider looking in from a business perspective as to how this might logically play.
Hope the wife is still on the mend.
KEY
I think enough of your post to print it and take it with me to the hospital
My wife had a small stroke after her surgery. It is related to blood thinners. Won't elaborate. She is fine and when they get her stabilized, she can come come--probably today.
Thank you for that in-depth analysis. I will respond.
Sam
Now I've finished with the pre Christmas mayhem I can get back to this.
One thing that's been in my mind is that most losing sessions just seem to go from bad to worse and most winning ones win quite quickly.
Mind you, it's easy to back fit stoplosses especially when dealing with limited sessions.
I'm looking into it.
Trebor
Another four.
20 sessions tested.
15 winning.
5 hit the -400 stoploss.
Out of the 15 winning only two went past -100 and recovered to win.
I know it's not many to draw conclusions on but it suggests that it's a struggle to recover from a 100 point drawdown.
Trebor
Quote from: trebor on Dec 22, 10:54 AM 2012
One thing that's been in my mind is that most losing sessions just seem to go from bad to worse and most winning ones win quite quickly.
To improve the strikerate, I have been thinking about adding a virtual bet filter at the start until there was an +10/-10 (or more) in-balance between the W/L. This would then trigger the betting...
Today's sad results attached.
KEY
Read your post many times today. Does your idea boil down to this: Begin a session and play to a stop loss of X. Then return and play to X2 and maybe X3. Like 100, 200, 300?
Sam
It's too many numbers for me to play...but for somebody else?? ...could go a couple ways
It would be something to consider...multiple sessions...strung together after 100 unit drops
Calculate a trigger mechanism...reach the 100 stop...if it drops another 50 or 75 begin then maybe...I don't know the system well enough to comment intelligently on what would constitute a good trigger to re-start.
It just seems most methods seem to move in waves and if you enter at the wrong point you are screwed right from the get-go and if you enter at the precise right moment you are rolling in it. The key obviously is recognizing those triggers or clues before you get in too deep...nothing is infallible...I just know digging out of deep holes is tough to do and usually needless in most cases.
Based on your numbers through this morning if you just quit at your gain goal or bailed out at -100 your strikerate was strong enough to have still garnered a 1575 unit profit in less than a month with 34 losing sessions against 68 winners. Everybody can do the math to fit their bankroll but even at $5 units you seem pretty stable...you'd be up almost $8000 in less than a month and you never risk more than $500 on a session...
If you were more aggressive...figure triggers to continue play after the first stop-loss.
On a tight bank you could enhance your odds maybe by waiting for a trigger...problem is you could be tracking forever before entering the game and if it still went south...well...emotionally that would just suck...but a risk we all take.
Just seems like alot of methods fail or fall short of their potential because we are willing to take a much larger loss (overall for the day or week) than we are looking for in a win. Why would we risk losing $400 to gain $75? (I personally don't even like EC's..why risk 1 to win 1...now I risk 5 to gain 1...that's a house edge)
I know the win vs loss rate helps to dictate that basis for the risk we are willing to take...it just seems like if a system is considered doing well to make 70 or 80 units...why would we wait for it to take us -400 where we need 6 session of wins to get us out of the hole? Chalk it up to bad timing and come back in another hour or another day. Remember we were happy that the system performed well enough to get us 75 or 80 in the plus...why would we expect that same system to drag us up out of a -400 hole in the same single session we were originally hoping for +80 out of?
Quote from: rouletteKEY on Dec 22, 08:17 PM 2012
Just seems like a lot of methods fail or fall short of their potential because we are willing to take a much larger loss (overall for the day or week) than we are looking for in a win. Why would we risk losing $400 to gain $75?
Finally someone who talks sense!
All this win 10% or lose 20% is a load of nonsense! Just send the casino a cheque every week with any spare change you have if you think like that!
Would you run a business hoping to make at least $100 a day and having expenses of $200!
Good luck with that!
Roulettekey,
so what you're saying is that this LvF has more potential when the stop loss would be set at -100 instead -400.
Stef
Stef...I'm saying I think we need to look at money management in general on all methods...but on this method why would we place 400 units at risk in a situation that it rarely recovers from... in order to win 75 or 80?
My main point, I suppose, was that by utilizing a stop-loss, whether that be for the day, or for a session at the table...that based on Sam's numbers if you stopped at -100, you would still have a profit of almost 1600 units for the month, without putting additional bankroll at risk for negligible return. Many times it recovered from down 100 and sometimes it came back from down 200 or 300.
So, I would say the next point would be. If it can regularly recover from over 100 down or 200 down in order to finish 75 or 80 up. Could the win goals be tweaked?
The method plays too many numbers for my taste so I haven't fully investigated it but there may be some way to work the betting once you are up 60, 90, 120...to maximize the methods potential while it's running hot.
Don't know...just looking at the method casually and making some comments that might help those that are deeper entrenched in it.
KEY
Well, I'm as deep as you can get without spending any more capital on it!!
I thought about this while I slept. Don't know how one would modify the tracker to do this, but what if you began a session and play until you were down 200 and then paused for a day. Go back the next day to another table and resume right where you left off. Possibly in the next session you will gain back your 200 and go on to win 72. Possibly not.
I don't agree with your idea of investing 400 to win 72. I think that is perfectly logical. If you look at the charts, you will see many days when I only invested 9 units. Or 18. Or 27. I would advance the idea one would have to look at the average daily investment (ADI) to see the true investment.
Right now, I have have some money in the marked in one form or another. What I could lose if the coming depression materializes is vast in relation to what I earn. Yes, I'm thinking about the mattress!
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 23, 10:11 AM 2012
I thought about this while I slept. Don't know how one would modify the tracker to do this, but what if you began a session and play until you were down 200 and then paused for a day. Go back the next day to another table and resume right where you left off. Possibly in the next session you will gain back your 200 and go on to win 72. Possibly not.
I don't agree with your idea of investing 400 to win 72. I think that is perfectly logical. If you look at the charts, you will see many days when I only invested 9 units. Or 18. Or 27. I would advance the idea one would have to look at the average daily investment (ADI) to see the true investment.
Sam
Sam,
Part of my point was about quick starts too... your days where you only have 9, 18 or 27 units invested. If it starts out fast it seems to give you a good run. But when it tanks, it may recover, but it may cost you more than you need to lose chasing a 75 or 80 unit overall gain.
Maybe we just fundamentally look at the game slightly different on money management.
I usually always bet on a small amount of numbers where I can go a little deeper on a drawdown because a win brings me back so far, so fast. This method calls for alot of bets and not quite as quick of recovery.
It's really a personal preference and style of play thing...that's why I didn't get too deep into this method because I just wouldn't play that many numbers on this type of method.
I would just not risk 400 to win 72, to me it doesn't make good business sense. If I was already down that much, what makes me believe the tide is going to turn now? It just seems like you're chasing a bad run. Walk away at down 100...come back the next day or in another hour...if you get that run that starts with only a 9, 18 or 27 unit drawdown play it a little longer. If you get your 75 units quick keep playing, but only give yourself say 27 units from the 75 on the drawdown...if you lose you make a little less for the day but you still did okay. If it wins...you keep playing and revising your new stop-loss against the new high. So if you win a couple more and you are up to 150...play on but stop at 123 if you start to slide.
We both look at the big picture...we just look at a couple aspects a little differently.
That was my take...if it helps in any way..even if it just gets you to look at something unrelated in a different way that helps...it's all good. If it doesn't help, then we have a little time invested in a train of thought that can now be ruled out as not helpful to the cause and move forward. It's really all about moving forward in the best and most thoroughly thought out way to get us all to our common goal.
Trust me--I am giving your posts much and serious thought and I thank you for your input.
You are so right about the quick win. And the trailing stop loss is good, too. On a good tram, one might win 200 or more.
I'm off to the hospital as my wife is not doing well.
Sam
Our prayers and best wishes to your wife Sam
i second that....
Quote from: rouletteKEY on Dec 23, 10:53 AM 2012
Our prayers and best wishes to your wife Sam
Thanks, guys. She may spend Christmas there!
Sincerest best wishes to you and your wife Sam.
Trebor
Best wishes to the wife Sam.
Its not the funniest place to spend your Christmas.
But as long that she gets better. :thumbsup:
Stef
My thoughts are with you and your family Sam.
Tony
Best wishes to you and Mrs Sam. I do hope she gets home for Christmas, but if not she will be in the best place to get her well and home to you.
Take care
Roughy
Best wishes to your wife Sam, hope she will be ok and ready to smack you soon ;)
Well, she'll be home today. INR is up to 2 and that's the key to the jail.
Thanks, guys.
Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it.
I've only met one of you fellers, but you guys are part of my life! (And my life is the better for it!)
Sam
Here's two days. No spins on December 24 or 25.
Another loser!
Two short tables...........
What to do? What to do?
do what Proof does. test different methods once in a while. the same patterns will never work.
and in my opinion exclude from there any outside bet methods
The testing will continue................
whats your upshot on this Sam....risky, safe, stable?
Turner
Probably a total failure, but since we worked so hard for the correct tracker and since it takes five minutes to do it, I will continue a while--hopefully I can stick with it through January.
The fun has gone out of this..............
Since am following this with great interest decided to log in and show you
where you doing it all wrong.
Recheck your results with the win/los 72/81 and you will find your tally winning 2232 throughout
this month,as 70 sessions won 72 un.not reaching DD of 90 un.while 39 lost.
So on EC basis,flat bet, you would be reacher now 2232 units.
Happy new year to you sir and other members.Luka
Very much appreciated, luka!
Is what you're saying I should have a win goal of 72 units and a loss limit of 81? Or is it a loss limit of 90?
I will certainly check the sheet as you say.
TwoCat
Ilukan,
I was testing this but haven't got Sam's staying power.
I looked at different stop wins/losses which certainly improved matters but with such a small sample I thought I was probably just backfitting.
Your 72/81 is so precise I imagine you've tried every combination. It could be the perfect setup for Flats bet selection or it could be only for Sam's results, how can we know?
Trebor
Pressing the stop-win 72 and stop-loss 90 in the tracker
it is al you have to do,and you will get exact results of
your month testings.
thank you
Getting tiresome...........
Sam,
I'm sure you know but applying a -90 stop loss you're 144 up for the day.
Trebor
Trebor
I'm going to print out my Tally Sheet and go back and look at it the way that fellow said to do. Thanks for that! I need a little uplift this morning.
Sam
Sam,
I mentioned a few posts back that my sessions either went to +72 or never got properly going at all.
I think maybe only 2 went over -100 and recovered. I meant to recheck mine but haven't got around to it.
I will now.
Trebor
Trebor
I am just going to go through and add two more columns to my sheet and see what happens.
Looking forward to your results.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Jan 02, 10:48 AM 2013
Trebor
I am just going to go through and add two more columns to my sheet and see what happens.
Looking forward to your results.
Sam
Just to save you work Sam,have a look how I did it.
Only 20 sessions Sam.
A loss of 936 turned into a profit of 108.
Average session length 50 spins.
Your results are better. If this turned out to be sustainable it could be doable but maybe only if botted.
Trebor
I already had it botted for someone else ;-)
Stef
Quote from: Stepkevh on Jan 02, 02:09 PM 2013
I already had it botted for someone else ;-)
Stef
WHAT EXACTLY??
The LvF system is already coded here on my computer so that it fits the excelbot that i developed.
Stef
Quote from: Stepkevh on Jan 02, 03:26 PM 2013
The LvF system is already coded here on my computer so that it fits the excelbot that i developed.
Stef
But on what rules???
Sams with 400 stop los,or as I suggested 72/90,as
this doesn't involves any great risks,wouldn't you think so,
and it shows a nice profit of this month tally.
its adjustable just like the sheet
It is adjustable just as he says. When time permits, I will re do the sheet with the new loss limit.
I've got ball games...............
Family.....
Dogs..
Wife....
You know the drill.
Sam
the longer are the sessions-- the more chances to lose. that's how roulette works. I know some people disagree with it and say that it does not matter, if the method wins, it supposed to win 24/7, but in real life it does not usually happen. There are people who win regularly more than they lose, but they don't usually play long exausting sessions.
In roulette books they say that statistically on average 70% of the casino players are ahead at some point, but absolutely most of them lose after. If everybody left while he is ahead there would be many less losses.
that's a food for thought for those who test the stuff.
Quote from: trebor on Jan 02, 03:50 AM 2013
Sam,
I'm sure you know but applying a -90 stop-loss you're 144 up for the day.
Trebor
I assume you are talking about Jan 1 as you posted right after my sheet went up. That trot had two winners of 72 and would have had two losers at 90. How do you come with the +144?
Maybe I'm missing something.
Sam
Here is the sheet with the new figures for a 90 u stop loss.
Finally a good day..............
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Jan 02, 05:16 PM 2013
I assume you are talking about Jan 1 as you posted right after my sheet went up. That trot had two winners of 72 and would have had two losers at 90. How do you come with the +144?
Maybe I'm missing something.
Sam
Here is the sheet with the new figures for a 90 u stop-loss.
Sorry Sam, schoolboy error, I only checked the -432 session. On the bright side you're still well up overall.
Trebor
So happy I'm not the only one who goofs!
Rats!
What's going on with this Sam.
I don't have excel and so can only go on your few comments. It seems you are having no luck but someone else seems to suggest you are well ahead.
Thank you for a heads up!
If I may answer since I think it was my comment.
Sams posted result are with a stoploss of -400. It was suggested that a stoploss of -90 gave better results and that was what I was refering to when I said he was well ahead.
Trebor
Thanks Trebor for your reply. :thumbsup:
Bet you thought I would give up on December 31st, didn't you?
Cant get enough of it Sam ?
Well, Stef, I've got it down to a five minute job. And I have hope...........
TCS
I have seen that you're still using the -400 stop loss limit ?
Isnt the other suggested one better ?
Stef
If you notice my Tally Sheet is all marked up with colors. This is my way of testing both. Every five days I will tally what it would have been with a loss of 400 and then, out to the right, I will tally what it would have been with 90. I guess I should expand the sheet before I save it.
I'm going to try to press on through January.
Sam
Am doing it from the first day it was posted by Flatman as he suggested but
throughout testing come on this tweak 72/90 and for couple months will come
with complete results....so far very good.Luke
That's Cool Luke. I have to hand it to you. May I call you Cool Hand Luke? (It's an old American movie with Paul Newman.)
Since you don't know me---that's TwoCat Humor!
I eagerly await your test results.
Sam
219 sessions from 19.11.last year,and all sessions regardless of how many spins included,some also
from tables 5 and 6.
Also re corrected it in the middle of testing-when 72 + stop regardless on which spin of the 9 cycle,also
same with losing 90.
So far score;
Won=10036 un.
Loss= 7290 un
138 wins
81 loss
Thank, Luke!
So ,it's a winner then ?
Don't slice the ham just yet, porke!
Much more testing to be done. Le'ts muddle through January and see what Ground Hog day brings.
Sam
Figured for both a 400 and a 90 stop loss.
I have noticed that you are not including sessions without enough spins in you tally,
which you MUST considering that you are now also testing 72/90...as logic simply
tell you that 72/90 usually ends in the first part of any long session,therefore would suggest it also,
as yesterday you had 3 such sessioh skipped....many times these are on tables 2,5,6..thanks
for listening.
Has anyone tried this on BV. Out of interest I pasted 20 sets of numbers from Random.org into the tracker set to 72/90. Small sample I know but 13 out of 20 bombed.
Trebor
Luke
If you notice out the the right you will see
1
2
3
4
5
6
7.........These are the numbers of times it went to 90 or beyond.
The colors in the chart tell me what to add in and what to leave out.
I may be wrong, check me out. I think I'm doing it right.
Thanks
Sam
For instance you haven't table 5 and 6 from yesterday that could have been played/and in the past I think you are just skeeping em thinking no numbers there/in this new version 72/90....that's what I meant.
Quote from: trebor on Jan 06, 12:36 PM 2013
Has anyone tried this on BV. Out of interest I pasted 20 sets of numbers from Random.org into the tracker set to 72/90. Small sample I know but 13 out of 20 bombed.
Trebor
And /regardles bombed or won/what that got to do with roulette.
This is rouletteforum.cc not random.org and couse most of you are testing roulette
with something that have nothing to do with it actually only couse you are too
lazy to test it by real roulette numbers.You and alike will never grasp the difference.
And btw-why testing random numbers with ones that are not random...as roulette
numbers are not...there are many elements that proves it.
Quote from: ilukan on Jan 06, 04:11 PM 2013
And by the way-why testing random numbers with ones that are not random...as roulette
numbers are not...there are many elements that proves it.
What a statement, sir :question: I hope everything is well with you..
But on contrary if I don't know this I would say you are crazy.
I have experiment with proofs where experts were meausuring in very precise boundaries how much actualy takes for a wheel to have "bias"
I won't bother with detailed numbers in tests, although they were amazing.This is the conclusion: Tilting the wheel to 1.35° led to a greater than 99.9% probability that the results were theresult of a “bias†on the wheel. Reducing the angle of tilt reduced the probability figure, buteven at an angle of only 0.1°, a probability of 98% that the wheel was “biased†was still obtained. The results in the other three planes gave repeatable results, with the lowestprobability still in the region of 98%. An analysis of the peak segment numbers also indicates that the “bias†appears to move in relation to the plane in which the table is tilted.
So BIAS is Advantage-play method which has the widest possibility of exploring in casino, and in practice it is very very hard to have perfectly leveled wheels without some degree of bias.On contrary, to find it, and use it against casino takes enormous amount of time and spins. We are talking about several thousands of spins to get sure confirmation.
So whenever some big fat guy leans on the table while we are playing, we dont have perfect random anymore :twisted:
So you must be thinking on something like this, not that methods you play work only in live casino? :o
BestDrazen
Maybe am couse reveled something that 99% guys here not aware of this fact.Same to you sir.
error
Quote from: ilukan on Jan 06, 04:11 PM 2013
And /regardles bombed or won/what that got to do with roulette.
This is rouletteforum.cc not random.org and couse most of you are testing roulette
with something that have nothing to do with it actually only couse you are too
lazy to test it by real roulette numbers.You and alike will never grasp the difference.
And by the way-why testing random numbers with ones that are not random...as roulette
numbers are not...there are many elements that proves it.
Wow!
An innocent enough question. I take it you haven't then?
Trebor
Quote from: ilukan on Jan 06, 05:10 PM 2013
Maybe am couse reveled something that 99% guys here not aware of this fact.Same to you sir.
hi flatino :-\
Quote from: speed on Jan 06, 08:11 PM 2013
hi F_LAT_INO :-\
Yes, hello Iboba.
Couldn't stay away, eh? ;)
You wrong as usual,am Slovenian and the gentleman you are about did
meet live in casino Lipica/google it/Slovenia,and we are often contacting.And btw he is hospitalised
presently.
Luke
Send him our best to get well soon. Hope it's not serious!
Sam
Bad day at Black Rock.............
why bad if you end in 0 (not minus:))
Today is lost 818 and won 144. That's the 400 stop loss
yes but with 72/90 it is around zero
send him my best wishes to recover
Quote from: ilukan on Jan 07, 07:42 AM 2013
You wrong as usual,am Slovenian and the gentleman you are about did
meet live in casino Lipica/google it/Slovenia,and we are often contacting.And by the way he is hospitalised
presently.
You're right, baigle. I calculate every five days.
Quote from: ilukan on Jan 07, 07:42 AM 2013
You wrong as usual,am Slovenian and the gentleman you are about did
meet live in casino Lipica/google it/Slovenia,and we are often contacting.And by the way he is hospitalised
presently.
You are 99% F_LAT_INO, but I do not care anymore
About ready to give up...............
Quote from: biagle on Jan 07, 04:13 PM 2013
yes but with 72/90 it is around zero
Flat betting it might be in plus. You can always back fit your progression to get better results. Right now you would be ahead with 72/90. In the next 100 games maybe original stop-loss of 400 would work better. If chops dominate you lose. Its that simple. Splits chop at the same rate like any EC. Sam testing show usual fluctuations in a strike rate in a method played mechanically.The balance was at some point over 3000 and dropped very quickly to -1000+.
Matt
You're right. I'm ready to throw in the towel.
Sam
SHame1
thanks for all the hard work 2catsc...
You're welcome. I may look at it a different way for a while.
May keep on for a while.........
Thanks Sam for all the tests.
I have been following this.
I thought I would do a little calculation.
Using the 90 stop loss that seems to result in a better profit, I calculate that using 300 spins per session equates to 1,100 hours of playing roulette at 1 minute per spin.
The profit earned is somewhere around 2.05 units per hour.
(with a stop loss of 90 though you probably do not play a full 300 spin session.)
I think this is the problem with roulette in general it takes up quite a slice of life and for what?
I appreciate that we also play for fun though.
If those units were $10.00 or £10.00 per unit not bad, but I dont think this system would be playable with those unit sizes due to table limits being hit before the progression ends.
ART
My dear ART,
This method was played 1000 euros from the start/9000/sometimes reached 450000 DD in the third
night of play/as man didn't follow the rules/but after 9 nights playing in 2 different casinos finally won
135000,but only because he changed the plan....starting on one table,any plus switching to other table,and pls.don't ask me about the table limits.....as he makes it when he plays.Hope you got the messagge.
ART
I can only speak for myself, but I'm in this for the fun of winning and any money made is secondary. I've never made a dollar from gambling, yet I trudge on.
As I said earlier, I'm not looking at this in a different way. If anything comes of it, I'll post it.
Sam
Play at BV.
First 81 pennies won :-)
OK, here's the deal................
I paid $50 for a clicker to facilitate this system. I use it for L and F, so there are two clickers open.
When a person has worked as hard as I and others have on this system, I want to play it a little. Pennies is the best I will do right now.
Sam
BV session.........
Quote from: ilukan on Jan 09, 11:33 AM 2013
My dear ART,
This method was played 1000 euros from the start/9000/sometimes reached 450000 DD in the third
night of play/as man didn't follow the rules/but after 9 nights playing in 2 different casinos finally won
135000,but only because he changed the plan....starting on one table,any plus switching to other table,and please.don't ask me about the table limits.....as he makes it when he plays.Hope you got the messagge.
The message seems to be that you always win with it when you have big enough BR and spend enough time in a casino? ;D
Quote from: ilukan on Jan 09, 11:33 AM 2013
My dear ART,
This method was played 1000 euros from the start/9000/sometimes reached 450000 DD in the third
night of play/as man didn't follow the rules/but after 9 nights playing in 2 different casinos finally won
135000,but only because he changed the plan....starting on one table,any plus switching to other table,and please.don't ask me about the table limits.....as he makes it when he plays.Hope you got the messagge.
Luke,
Did he wait for any plus at:
(1) the END of a cycle or
(2) any plus at any point?
B27
I don't but the man does,money involved means nothing to him,but he feels like a little child whenever
wins any amount,everyone present have food and drinks all free.Man have more then 500 supermarkets
all over EU,many factories with more then 80000 employees.....but loves to play roulette...our next trip is
Malta,but after I recover.There are many such players round alike,but most lose as mostly play it randomly on luck.
Quote from: Bettor 27 on Jan 10, 06:44 AM 2013
Luke,
Did he wait for any plus at:
(1) the END of a cycle or
(2) any plus at any point?
B27
End of the cycle.
Just couldn't quit............
Mine results over 3000+ 72/90,but from earlier days.
Now researching playing on 4 tables in continuation,
rules all same expect any win/even 1=9 +/on any cycle
switch to the other table.........following the 9 last spins
from the previous table.It seems more flexible and not
static.Will show one session throughout a day just to
show how it looks.Don't give up on 72/90 Sam as lots
of session reach stop/win in short cycles.
Quote from: ilukan on Jan 11, 06:31 AM 2013
Mine results over 3000+ 72/90,but from earlier days.
Now researching playing on 4 tables in continuation,
rules all same expect any win/even 1=9 +/on any cycle
switch to the other table.........following the 9 last spins
from the previous table.It seems more flexible and not
static.Will show one session throughout a day just to
show how it looks.Don't give up on 72/90 Sam as lots
of session reach stop/win in short cycles.
Please do show how this works Luke as I want to be clear how this is played on multiple tables...What is the advantage of playing this on multiple tables anyway?
It sems to me,so far,escapes and avoid static basic rules that bangs all such methods...also here are
changed some rules of original bet.more likee a flat bet as it is only played 1 or eventualy most 2 cycles,
win or lose.Doing it all manually as don't know to copy/past from e xcel to excel need numbers as there
is a time of of each spin done.When I put 1 excel on descopt and tray putting other that could past it,one covers the other and don't know how to separate it ihto 2 smaller windows...any suggestions.
Sam knows it surely but he gives nothing fre lol..
fre? Was that last word "free"?
this......in attach.
Have no more strength to continue manually,,,but it is the idea how it should be play in future.
Maybe you could continue Sam as I'm still on rehabilitation faze.
Wonder why can'topen the attach....maybe this one will
ok now just few further explanations why picking tables in this order,as tables 3,4,7 starting around 16 h,sometimes any
of these 3 start first,,,and there are mostly players/penzioners and rehabiliation pacients from nearby thermal waters playing then,and some even come in the wheelchairs.And now if you take closer look the time intervals beetwen each spin you will notice
it takes from 1-4 min---while tablw 2 start around 20 h /sometimes earlier if serious players/and then serious players start playing oh that table,but when rehabilit.
start living around 21h other tabless could continue if there enough players.
Can't fix thisjust traalate or put it in English
Quote from: ilukan on Jan 11, 03:33 PM 2013
Wonder why can'topen the attach....maybe this one will
ok now just few further explanations why picking tables in this order,as tables 3,4,7 starting around 16 h,sometimes any
of these 3 start first,,,and there are mostly players/penzioners and rehabiliation pacients from nearby thermal waters playing then,and some even come in the wheelchairs.And now if you take closer look the time intervals beetwen each spin you will notice
it takes from 1-4 min---while tablw 2 start around 20 h /sometimes earlier if serious players/and then serious players start playing oh that table,but when rehabilit.
start living around 21h other tabless could continue if there enough players.
Luke,
Thanks for explanation - what happened to the rule that says to end session at 72 or more up?
I quit the test at 72 up, although it goes up a lot more sometimes.
I still have faith in this idea............
onward
Two more days. I'll catch up tomorrow.