I have tried this method a bit and I really like it alot. The betting is very minimal, only downside is this system is very complex to do without a software. But with a software it is easy. Maybe it is a possible holy grail? You only bet a few units at most on a few numbers, which I really like and the numbers hit often. I had two session below where the number reaches more than 200+ without a hit but as you can see there really isn't a huge drawdown and is very balanced.
(link:://s14.postimg.org/3ywl1461c/Dynamic_Betting_Cold_Tracking.jpg)
Dynamic Betting
Firstly, you have to understand dynamic betting which is a very simple system. The meaning of dynamic betting is to bet in such a way that you bet the lowest amount that is able to recover your previous bankroll balance. Say for example you have 500 chips. You bet 1 unit on 1 number. So in order to recover, once it reaches 465 chips, you have to increase to 2 units for that number. If you continue betting on that number for 2 units you cannot let it below 430 units (Or you wouldn't recover so you have to increase to 3 units).
Put it simply. 1 unit bet = 35 units allowed before increasing the bet.
So what if you are playing say 2 numbers? The same system applies. Lets say 500 starting chips betting at 2 numbers 1 unit each. You can only bet till the lowest 430 units (Before you increase one of the number to 2 units), to make it 3 units total (2 units on 1 number, and 1 unit on 1 number) which you then can continue betting until it reaches 395 bankroll balance. (Threshold for 3 units bet = 35 x 3 =105)
Understand?
Now on to cold number tracking...
Cold Number Tracking
Very simple, we track ALL the numbers. place 1 unit on each number that hasn't hit for 100 spins...the betting unit stays the same until it reaches a balance where you have to increase 1 betting unit as explained on the dynamic betting method.
Where to place that 1 additional betting unit every time an increase is needed?
Simple, place it at the number that hasn't appeared the longest. However, lets say you have 3 numbers where 2 numbers at 1 unit each and a single number at 2 units. Then place the additional unit on that 2nd number that hasn't appeared the longest to make it 2 units each on 2 numbers and 1 unit on 1 number.
Anytime a number hits (Remove that number obviously), then re-evaluate your bankroll and then tailor the betting units to the remaining numbers using the dynamic betting method so that it can recover your previous high.
Combine the two methods, using the cold number tracking and the dynamic betting method above, we are able to create a very POWERFUL system that can rake in the cash.
Wish I didn't confuse you and good luck! :thumbsup:
If you have anything not sure, feel free to ask...
cold numbers can sleep 500 spins ,what will you do then.
you don't bet on only 1 number (As you bet on 1 unit for each number that reaches 100 spins), so the betting units don't go up high. Even the number that was sleeping for 200+ spins, I was betting 1 or 2 units on it only..
Granted, I don't know how 500 sleeper spins will play out but the units regularly reset to 1 unit. All I can say is try it yourself.
Quote from: ozon on Sep 21, 02:58 AM 2014
cold numbers can sleep 500 spins ,what will you do then.
you don't bet on only 1 number (As you bet on 1 unit for each number that reaches 100 spins), so the betting units don't go up high. Even the number that was sleeping for 200+ spins, I was betting 1 or 2 units on it only..
Granted, I don't know how 500 sleeper spins will play out but the units regularly reset to 1 unit. All I can say is try it yourself.
Further to add since you will be playing a few numbers (Numbers that hasn't appeared for 100 spins), even if one sleeps for awhile it will still be fine with the above betting method as long as the other numbers hit (Which they will).
Hope this method isn't too complicated that it will put people off. Although with the Roulette Xtreme software it is easy to play and im doing well over there so far.
Sorry to sound negative; But been there, done that, this method is not only a waste of time,
but a real looser as well.
Chris i second this
Guys have you actually tried this method as I explained? I'm still winning with this method at spin 2449, my starting bankroll was 500, current bankroll is 1369. Only downside is that sometimes, it goes on "limbo" and it takes time to profit.
The longest sleeper was 269 spins and it recovered. In fact, if you use the betting method as described, sleepers don't really matter at all. As anytime another numbers reaches the 100 spins not appeared mark, You "share" the bets and distribute. So lets say you have one lone sleeper with 5 units on it, another number has reached the 100 spins not appeared, then you split 3 units on the sleeper and 2 units on the new number. So even if that sleeper continues sleeping but the new number hits, you successfully reduced your bet on the sleeper from 5 units to 3 units and also increase your bankroll to be able to reach a new high. This can be applied again when new numbers are introduced and the bets are distributed again.
As you can see from above, doing so would protect yourself from "sleepers".
Have you tried using software to simulate 1,000 to 1,000,000 spins on this?
I can give this a try, but do you have to split units 2:1 on different chips or can you just watch them independently, ie. number 1 is on its 30th spin so no need to increase for another 5 spins; number 2 is on it's 20th spin so still has another 15 to go, etc?
It's very similar to the other system in the top of the testing zone, but that doesn't have much to say about cold tracking other than use any method necessary to find hot/cold number. His chart stops at 10 chips; would yours continue beyond that?
9 win 10 win
9 28 10 28
9 19 10 18
9 10 10 8
9 1
tracking cold numbers is a loser. Now you are lucky. Some people won a lot with red/black and negative martingale. But if you push it further you will lose everything.
if i was going to do a number system based on 10 spins i would look at the 10 most recent spins and bet on the other 26 numbers plus 0
it will lose eventually. Why do you have always to look at the last 10 numbers? Look at different numbers of last numbers. Make it different. Roulette kills all consistent patterns, remember it.
Quote from: falkor on Sep 29, 12:48 PM 2014
Have you tried using software to simulate 1,000 to 1,000,000 spins on this?
I can give this a try, but do you have to split units 2:1 on different chips or can you just watch them independently, ie. number 1 is on its 30th spin so no need to increase for another 5 spins; number 2 is on it's 20th spin so still has another 15 to go, etc?
It's very similar to the other system in the top of the testing zone, but that doesn't have much to say about cold tracking other than use any method necessary to find hot/cold number. His chart stops at 10 chips; would yours continue beyond that?
9 win 10 win
9 28 10 28
9 19 10 18
9 10 10 8
9 1
Hi falkor, no you dont do it like that independently. Simple rules, anytime a number does not appear for 100 spins you place a betting unit (This can be 1 unit or more as previous post I mentioned, but usually 1 unit). The dynamic betting is such that you do not bet it in a way as you elaborated above, you bet it in a way with respect to your current bankroll to the previous high bankroll with a chance to recover.
Lets say you have 2 numbers, 1 unit each like your example above. Your previous high bankroll is 500. Current bankroll is 460. You can continue betting 1 unit each on the 2 numbers until it reached bankroll 430, whereby you increase the longest sleeper to 2 units while remaining the other number at 1 unit. From then on you can continue betting until bankroll reaches 395. (Remember each betting unit has a 35 units tolerance). So 500 - (3 X 35) = 395
This is one scenario, another is that while betting 1 unit on 2 numbers each and another number to be bet has appeared, you then proceed to bet 1 unit each on 3 numbers, and also increasing the bankroll tolerance to 395, which then upon reaching also you proceed to increase the longest sleeper to 2 units while remaining the other 2 numbers at 1 unit each.
Following above example, at 2 units on longest sleeper and 1 unit on 2 numbers, if it continues to bankroll 360 (tolerance level), then you proceed to increase 1 unit on the 2nd longest sleeper to have 2 units on the longest sleeper and 2nd longest sleeper each, and 1 unit on the other sleeper. As you can see the betting is spread out, so even if the longest sleeper continues to sleep, as long as the other sleepers hit the betting units never increase drastically.
Hope this clears your doubts.
RK, You know that I always point out that if this system works on straight up numbers, it should also work on Streets. Instead of 100 misses on a number, you would look for 33 misses on a street. Everything else would be played the same way, only the time spent at the table could be shortened. I guess the killer might be that because of the limited number of bet positions, 12 vs 36, multiple bet locations may not come around often enough.
Just a thought.
GLC
Quote from: RouletteKnight on Sep 29, 10:24 PM 2014
Hi falkor, no you dont do it like that independently. Simple rules, anytime a number does not appear for 100 spins you place a betting unit (This can be 1 unit or more as previous post I mentioned, but usually 1 unit). The dynamic betting is such that you do not bet it in a way as you elaborated above, you bet it in a way with respect to your current bankroll to the previous high bankroll with a chance to recover.
Lets say you have 2 numbers, 1 unit each like your example above. Your previous high bankroll is 500. Current bankroll is 460. You can continue betting 1 unit each on the 2 numbers until it reached bankroll 430, whereby you increase the longest sleeper to 2 units while remaining the other number at 1 unit. From then on you can continue betting until bankroll reaches 395. (Remember each betting unit has a 35 units tolerance). So 500 - (3 X 35) = 395
This is one scenario, another is that while betting 1 unit on 2 numbers each and another number to be bet has appeared, you then proceed to bet 1 unit each on 3 numbers, and also increasing the bankroll tolerance to 395, which then upon reaching also you proceed to increase the longest sleeper to 2 units while remaining the other 2 numbers at 1 unit each.
Following above example, at 2 units on longest sleeper and 1 unit on 2 numbers, if it continues to bankroll 360 (tolerance level), then you proceed to increase 1 unit on the 2nd longest sleeper to have 2 units on the longest sleeper and 2nd longest sleeper each, and 1 unit on the other sleeper. As you can see the betting is spread out, so even if the longest sleeper continues to sleep, as long as the other sleepers hit the betting units never increase drastically.
Hope this clears your doubts.
Your bets are based on recovering the bankroll, but the other guy's bets are based on increasing units per number after 35,20, x,x,x spins, etc. Both of your systems would increase 1 number by 1 unit after 35 bets regardless of whether you monitor spin # vs. bankroll. The only difference with your system besides cold tracking is that you split the bets across several numbers, which can only work based on bank roll, but over complicates the software side of things because you have to keep track of bank roll deficits vs. profit.
If you had 6 sleepers on the go, would the betting scheme be 2:2:2:2:2:1 until you recover your money? In that case, surely you would have to increase one or more to 3 units after your bankroll reduces to how much? Have you worked out exactly how you would do that?
My calculations don't seem to match yours when I try to apply your rules to 2 sleepers:
Spin, max bet for longest sleeper, loss, sleeper 1, sleeper 2
34 1 -68 1 1
35 1 -70 1 1
36 2 -76 2 1
37 2 -82 2 1
If I win on spin 35 then my profit is 34, but that isn't enough to recover 68.
If I win on spin 36 then my profit is 69, but that isn't enough to recover 70.
Where am I going wrong?
Ok, I think I've sussed it (see attached spreadsheet; can enter sleepers inside the black box and choose a unit value but don't edit the left 3 coloured columns)
Just need to figure out now what to do when 1 chip wins or what RouletteKnight was suggesting about re-distributing chips after a win (and the green bankroll currently only reflects winnings should sleeper 1 hits first)
Quote from: falkor on Sep 30, 05:27 AM 2014
My calculations don't seem to match yours when I try to apply your rules to 2 sleepers:
Spin, max bet for longest sleeper, loss, sleeper 1, sleeper 2
34 1 -68 1 1
35 1 -70 1 1
36 2 -76 2 1
37 2 -82 2 1
If I win on spin 35 then my profit is 34, but that isn't enough to recover 68.
If I win on spin 36 then my profit is 69, but that isn't enough to recover 70.
Where am I going wrong?
You are not doing anything wrong. (But just to clarify, you only play numbers after they didnt appear for 100 spins. So that would be spins 135 not appeared technically, but for ease sake we call it spin 35).
Your first example, when it hits on spin 35. yes you profit 34. it isn't enough to recover your 68. but now you left 34 more units to recover. You continue the game, you continue betting 1 unit on that last sleeper, coincidentally the next spin is the last 1 unit as there will be 35 units (threshold) more to recover, then you add 1 more additional unit to that last sleeper to continue betting 2 units on that last sleeper until it reaches the threshold of 70.
Of course, in between while betting 2 units on that last sleeper before reaching that threshold of 70, If another spin has not appeared for 100 spins, you can then split the 2 units, 1 each on the last sleeper and the new sleeper.
Now you get it?
Your 2nd example, you hit your 2 units (last sleeper) and you profit 68 which isnt enough to recover the previous 70, but now you are left with 2 more to recover and with 1 unit on that last sleeper. Isn't that a good sign? You continue the game betting that 1 unit until it reaches the threshold of 35 to recover.
If in between new sleepers appear, you add 1 betting unit to that new sleeper, but also increase the threshold to 70 to recover. If there are 3 sleepers at 1 unit each then it will be threshold 105 to recover...etc...
Hope this clarify your question.
Also there is an error in your graph.
Spin, max bet for longest sleeper, loss, sleeper 1, sleeper 234 1 -68 1 1
35 1 -70 1 1
36 2 -76 2 1
<---( loss should be -73)37 2 -82 2 1
<---(loss should be -76)
Falkor, just another example to show you how the splitting is done.
If you are betting 3 units on the longest sleeper and another 2 units on another sleeper.
and another qualifying sleeper appears. How would you bet it?
The best way to do it would be, 2 units each on the longest sleeper and 2nd longest and
1 unit on the new sleeper.
You continue betting this way, until the threshold is reached, 175 (35x5=175),
you add 1 additional unit on that new sleeper. So it would be 2 units on each of the 3 sleepers.
If the threshold is reached again 210 ( 35x6=210)
You then add 1 additional unit to that last sleeper. So it will be 3 units on the last sleeper and 2 units on the other 2 sleeper.
Hope this shows you how to split and bet it logically (To spread out the bet and minimise risk).
The rule is simple. Always split or bet it in a way that the betting spread is even amongst the numbers. If it isn't possible for all bets to be even then give priority to the longest sleeper, then 2nd longest, then 3rd longest etc...
So you never have say 4 units on the longest sleeper and 2 units on another sleeper. you split it 3 units each in this case..
So 3 units each on the 2 sleepers. If another sleeper appears, then split it again 2 units each on the 3 numbers. etc..
(link:://s30.postimg.org/e5ada7eov/untitled.jpg)
Im still doing pretty fine. Yes, it might tank in the future as all systems will do.
But keep in mind, there is no 100% winning roulette system. A roulette can go for 50 blacks in a row and screw you up, it is mathematically improbable but not impossible.
GLC also did make a good suggestion that I can play it on streets which may be more practical.
OK thanks for taking time to reiterate - it does seem very complicated - but could be an effective way of chasing losses. You must have some kind of spreadsheet or software yourself to help you keep track..? For sure understanding I think we need about 5 different examples for 1-5 sleepers based on: what happens exactly when a new sleeper joins the betting (1) and what happens when one sleeper wins compared to another sleeper winning in each example (2); however - see my latest update of the spread sheet (attached).
How about if we just simplify it like this?
Bet only the following ratios based on how sleeper 1 (coldest) is progressing?
2:1 (2 sleepers on the go with the longest sleeper progressed to chip 2)
or 3:2:2 (3 sleepers on the go)
or 5:4:4:4 (4 sleepers; Sleeper 1 progressed to 5 chips)
If Sleeper 1 wins then we start again at 0 bankroll, putting the profit into a separate stash.
If Sleeper 2+ wins then we feed the orange figure (see my spreadsheet; usually slightly negative) in place of the bankroll and continue betting on the existing sleepers? We can reset to 1 or carry on with the current unit amount?
Of course I'm aware of the cold tracking part - that's the easiest part to grasp - spin 35 in the chart example represents spins since sleeper 1 betting commenced.
Unless there are some typos I do see some contradictory information/instructions re: Dynamic Betting. However, what seems clear: the more sleepers you introduce and the more betting that's split will result in a more steeper progression.
Without 5 clear examples it would be difficult to get 100% clarity - and before I try to point out any flaws in the method or attempt to test this over 1,000,000 spins - what do you think of the simple instructions above? Would they propose any major disadvantage at recovering a negative bankroll, as you see it, and based on your understanding...?
I've got a basic flat-betting engine running for testing this as well as henry's similar system in the Testing Zone--just awaiting the Knight's precise instructions based on multiple examples for incrementing and splitting chips across multiple sleepers--before I implement this properly for a million spins. Let me know if you spot any bugs in this thousand spin sample of the engine - no fancy graphs unfortunately - I'm not that smart!
From this sample you can get a good idea of how the Cold Number Tracking works and how many sleepers are usually in play simultaneously! Again, any bugs are purely my own and be swiftly fixed... I'm all for testing out any promising looking systems!
Quote from: falkor on Sep 30, 06:23 PM 2014
I've got a basic flat-betting engine running for testing this as well as henry's similar system in the Testing Zone--just awaiting the Knight's precise instructions based on multiple examples for incrementing and splitting chips across multiple sleepers--before I implement this properly for a million spins. Let me know if you spot any bugs in this thousand spin sample of the engine - no fancy graphs unfortunately - I'm not that smart!
From this sample you can get a good idea of how the Cold Number Tracking works and how many sleepers are usually in play simultaneously! Again, any bugs are purely my own and be swiftly fixed... I'm all for testing out any promising looking systems!
On your test, i looked through briefly. On spin 165, shouldn't you increase number 21 to 2 units? and number 15 remains 1 unit. Because your bankroll reached 929 (below threshold of 70) (1000-70=930).
Hope you get it.
As I said: it's only programmed for flat 1 unit betting so far - to demonstrate other aspects of your system and those in common with other 1-4 number systems - until we can clarify your Dynamic Betting rules explicitly through multiple examples - or through further discussion based on what I outlined in previous replies; your feedback on those points would be appreciated. Alternatively, I can go through all your paragraphs describing Dynamic Betting in limited contexts and try to resolve any contradictions by proposing questions to you through examples of my own. Let me know if and how you would like to proceed? Until then I am going to move onto implementing independent number progressions according to henry's rules, as well as looking next into the Star System based on other members' recommendations.
Star system only use it on even chance bets.
I fixed 2 bugs in the spreadsheet and introduced a nested IF statement in case we need to increase by 2 chips should a new sleeper be introduced to the betting scheme at the same moment 1 chip is increased.
Yeah, I'll bare that in mind re: Star System. I need to look at suitable modifications that can overcome 22 losses in a row followed by 2 wins in a row, say. Perhaps we should wait for an even chance result to come in a row at least 3 times before we even think about beginning the Star System.
EDIT:Damn, there's still 1 bug in that spread sheet since this system is more complex than I imagined - but splitting the betting across multiple sleepers could pay off in the end since we have a chance of breaking the 500 spin sleeper limit. I think it's worth persevering - even if we can't agree on the exact rules!
Hi
I made an excel file for tracking numbers. File is tracking numbers for the last 37 spins and hits on specific groups for last 45 spins. I divide numbers in to 3 groups. First group is called HOT, all unique numbers in last 18 spins. Next group is called MEDIUM, which are all unique numbers between spin 19-37. Third group is COLD, all unique numbers which were not hit in last 37 spins. Since I track hits on different groups I can see the dynamics. Sometimes you will not have hits on COLD numbers for 10 consecutive spins, in rare occasions even more. In such case this group will rise up to 17-18 numbers, usually is between 12-15, sometimes even less. MEDIUM group is sort of interruption group. Usually there are not many numbers, somwhere between 3-10. Hits on this group are very unpredictable and you can see no hits on this group up to 20+ consecutive spins in worst case. HOT group is probably the best group to bet on, but when COLD numbers are hitting in consecutive spins, this group can rise up to 18 numbers.
The best thing in my opinion is you can see the dynamics, which group is the hotest. As I said MEDIUM group is somewhat interruption, so HOT and COLD are the option for betting.
Now I am working on good progression, which can allow to survive quite some misses. As far I have tested the sowtware I came to conclusion, when group consist more than 16 numbers, it become a dangerous to bet on, as it might happen a long series of non hits.
THIS SHOULD NOW BE BUG FREE BUT DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT! :twisted: I think some later progressions may need 3-4 chip progressions, so could still be more updates further down the line, but am starting to reach a comfort zone threshold in order to commence implementation in one form or another. :smile:
Quote from: Bo on Oct 01, 07:08 AM 2014
Hi
I made an excel file for tracking numbers. File is tracking numbers for the last 37 spins and hits on specific groups for last 45 spins. I divide numbers in to 3 groups. First group is called HOT, all unique numbers in last 18 spins. Next group is called MEDIUM, which are all unique numbers between spin 19-37. Third group is COLD, all unique numbers which were not hit in last 37 spins. Since I track hits on different groups I can see the dynamics. Sometimes you will not have hits on COLD numbers for 10 consecutive spins, in rare occasions even more. In such case this group will rise up to 17-18 numbers, usually is between 12-15, sometimes even less. MEDIUM group is sort of interruption group. Usually there are not many numbers, somwhere between 3-10. Hits on this group are very unpredictable and you can see no hits on this group up to 20+ consecutive spins in worst case. HOT group is probably the best group to bet on, but when COLD numbers are hitting in consecutive spins, this group can rise up to 18 numbers.
The best thing in my opinion is you can see the dynamics, which group is the hotest. As I said MEDIUM group is somewhat interruption, so HOT and COLD are the option for betting.
Now I am working on good progression, which can allow to survive quite some misses. As far I have tested the sowtware I came to conclusion, when group consist more than 16 numbers, it become a dangerous to bet on, as it might happen a long series of non hits.
That's interesting that HOT and COLD are both worth considering since a lot of other systems I'm seeing (MrJs?) often bet on HOT numbers - contrary to my logical understanding
QuoteNow I am working on good progression, which can allow to survive quite some misses. As far I have tested the sowtware I came to conclusion, when group consist more than 16 numbers, it become a dangerous to bet on, as it might happen a long series of non hits.
OK, so you are seeing some definite patterns here? How about testing over longer periods than 37? You got me intrigued... I'm going to do some more analysis myself.
37 spins in every moment, but overall spins are endless
Here is a small sample. As you can see hot group was hit 17 times in 36 spins. With nice and safe progression we could collect nice profit. But it's not always like that, just tendency was on repeaters in this case. After a while this could turn in to cold numbers hitting and at some point it will. That's dynamic I see.
One of the method for betting could be waiting for 3 consecutive non hits on hot group and bet on 3 steps 1,1,2 on each number. Most of bets should be won. Need some more testing. Thankfully I have a file with 11k real spins on RNG, to analyse :D
This system is looking horrible! :sad2: Don't be surprised by the total profit because I haven't turned on table limits yet! I need to look through this first 100,000 spins (Google Chrome would be better than IE!), so maybe there's several bugs in here or something? Either that - or all 1-4 number systems should be confined to the scrapheap! :question:
link:s://:.sendspace.com/file/w8ylk8 (link:s://:.sendspace.com/file/w8ylk8)
falkor, you got the betting all wrong.
You dont go betting 2 units (longest sleeper), 1 unit, 1 unit, then increase to 3 units, 2 units, 2 units. (If that is how you are trying to play)
That is too aggressive.
Let me lay down the rules once and for all, there will be no ambiguity.
(I highly recommend roulette xtreme as the tracking and bankroll is so easy to count)
Step 1)
You play every number that has not appeared for 100 spins.
Step 2)
check the difference of your bankroll high minus your current bankroll
(For e.g 500 - 400 = 100)
Step 3)
Compare the difference to the betting threshold.
Difference cannot exceed betting threshold. The total amount
to bet is according to the graph.
Total Bets/Betting threshold
1 unit- 35
2 units- 70
3 units- 105
4 units- 140
5 units - 175
6 units - 210
etc...
Step 4)
The way you should split the betting
is simply ..
getting the information from
step 1)
How many numbers in play.
and step 3)
How many TOTAL betting units you need.
Divide the Total betting units by the numbers in play..
*Viola*... (You will never wonder what to do if every spin
you follow these rules, sounds complicated but it is not)
..you do not have to check every spin per se, because you only need to remember
your bankroll threshold and not let it go below that. Also, other times to re-check
are every time a new sleeper is introduced or a sleeper hits.
Step 5)
Splitting in a logical manner.
Of course you won't have everything perfect in a divide all the time.
Just give priority to the longest sleeper, then 2nd longest then 3rd longest etc...
While trying to make the bets as equal as possible.
Examples:
5 total betting units, 3 sleepers.
> 2 units (longest), 1 unit, 1 unit
8 total betting units, 2 sleepers.
> 4 units, 4 units
6 total betting units, 6 sleepers
> 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit
7 total betting units, 4 sleepers
> 2 units (longest), 2 units (2nd longest), 2 units (3rd longest), 1 unit
7 total betting units, 3 sleepers
> 3 units (longest), 2 units, 2 units
There is NO AMBIGUITY whatsoever how to bet.
The total betting units can be derived from step 3).
The total sleepers can be derived from step 1)
The splitting is simply to bet all the numbers in the same amount,
if that is not possible then add the additional units to the longest sleeper, to the 2nd longest etc...
Ok - thanks for taking time to explain in more detail!
QuoteTotal Bets/Betting threshold
1 unit- 35
2 units- 70
3 units- 105
4 units- 140
5 units - 175
6 units - 210
etc...
So if the balance is
-67 we are looking at 1 or 2 units? If there are 3 sleepers we can't split 1-2 units across 3 sleepers, so I guess we have to leave out the newest one?
The problem is 1-2 units will not recover the -67 unless those 2 units are on 1 sleeper and that's the sleeper that wins. If you put 1 unit on each sleeper the recovery will only be around 50%.
Probably many have tried before... I think it's better to bet on numbers which didn't appear for many spins (100+), but start to bet when the particular number is finaly hit, it might repeat very soon. However I wouldn't try more than 35 spins on each. If it will repeat, it will happen in those 35 spins or become long time sleeper again, pointless to hunt for it longer. It's just tooo much risk. For such style of betting even 37 spins as a sample could be enough.
Quote1 unit- 35
2 units- 70
3 units- 105
4 units- 140
5 units - 175
6 units - 210
etc...
Quote6 total betting units, 6 sleepers
> 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit
If one of those 1 unit sleepers comes in then that will hardly put a bandage on the decreasing bankroll, so you end up relying more on each sleeper individually/independently (see henry's system).
QuoteYou dont go betting 2 units (longest sleeper), 1 unit, 1 unit, then increase to 3 units, 2 units, 2 units. (If that is how you are trying to play)
That is too aggressive.
Based on your hypothesis about using multiple sleepers to overcome one number sleeping for 500+ spins (speculated by another member; still to be tested), I think my aggressive approach supports that more. I have just noticed one bug in the 100K results: the units *are not always* resetting after the bankroll reaches a new high. I will correct that tonight and see if it results in any major improvements - and should then appear less aggressive. I think with your least aggressive approach, however, you will be stuck in the mud evermore - hardly any power to recover from a decreasing session.
Quote from: falkor on Oct 02, 06:48 AM 2014
If one of those 1 unit sleepers comes in then that will hardly put a bandage on the decreasing bankroll, so you end up relying more on each sleeper individually/independently (see henry's system).
Yes, actually the point of this system is to wait till all/most of the sleepers hit.
But it is very complicated (For most people to understand, unless you are the originator of the system! haha).
Also, you will feel pretty stupid using this system (Kind of like chasing losses most of the time, but it really works, maybe it will be better if played on streets).
My last session, I came across the worst sleeper (331 spins), end up have to bet 14 units on it at one point. But still, was able to recover and profit at the end... (I do think it will tank at some point though).
Falkor, see the attachment below of my bets, my real session using roulette xtreme. Do take note, of course there will be a few mistakes here and there (Since I done this manually). But the mistakes are nothing major..
My starting bankroll was 500.
As you can see, at spin 3707 I was left with a bankroll of 1784.
-Worst sleeper I came across was 331 spins.
-Most numbers bet at once (Cant remember but it is 6 or 7 numbers)
-Most bets at the board at once (I think it was 17 total units)
You can run this .dgt file in Rx to help you track the last appearance of each numbers.
You can view all counters by showing "Data Records" in "Statistics" menu.
I have tried the method to bet on sleepers once they appear. I will have to adjust tracking software. As for now I track sleepers for the last 37 spins or more and it might be just not enough. I will try with settings 54 and 74 spins tracker for sleepers.
OK the idea is I wait for first sleeper to appear and start to bet on with one unit. When next sleeper is hit we add that number and so on. I bet with progression when needed and depends how many numbers are subject to bet. So far (with seetings on 37 spins sleepers) I didn't go far than with 104 units alltogether (3 units per number) which is also a stop loss for me.
Crucial thing is entering point as I know trends changes all the time, either are hot numbers or cold. It's better when the trend is on hot number, cause we won't get many ex cold numbers to bet on. If the cold numbers are on trend we might get 4-5 numbers to bet on in consecutive spins, so prety fast.
Quote from: ozon on Sep 21, 02:58 AM 2014
cold numbers can sleep 500 spins ,what will you do then.
you don't bet on only 1 number (As you bet on 1 unit for each number that reaches 100 spins), so the betting units don't go up high. Even the number that was sleeping for 200+ spins, I was betting 1 or 2 units on it only..
Granted, I don't know how 500 sleeper spins will play out but the units regularly reset to 1 unit. All I can say is try it yourself.
I just tested this and max sleeper was 498 over 1,000,000 spins - so that's extremely accurate!
The Dynamic Betting + Cold Number tracking is working a lot better now - using my compromised, slightly more aggressive, progression - following bug fixes.
Profit: 1300 units per 1000 spins! Max bankroll needed looks to be less than 150 maybe? But I won't know for sure till the one mil results come back.
There's still a few bugs in this unfortunately, but I'll get those resets to work properly in the end. :-\
THIS SYSTEM IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as I can tell THERE ARE NO BUGS ANYMORE!
Bankroll needed during these 2000 spins was 274 (EDIT: tell a lie I think it was much more than that in total). I think this level of aggression (=progression) is perfect, though I think the cold sleeper trigger could be reduced to -50, which should result in my more sleepers at one time and possibly more profit? I need to figure out a threshold between:
-Cold Sleeper Trigger (currently set to -100)
-Bankroll (can't be more than 500 to 1K)
-Table limits (can't go above them)
-Profit per 1000 spins (10 hours)
Over 1 mill spins I can figure out exactly how to tweak this monster! The Star System is great, but subtle systems like this one also need more attention. Confined to the scrapheap? I eat my words! O0
Quote from: falkor on Oct 03, 05:25 PM 2014
THIS SYSTEM IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as I can tell THERE ARE NO BUGS ANYMORE!
Bankroll needed during these 2000 spins was 274 (EDIT: tell a lie I think it was much more than that in total). I think this level of aggression (=progression) is perfect, though I think the cold sleeper trigger could be reduced to -50, which should result in my more sleepers at one time and possibly more profit? I need to figure out a threshold between:
-Cold Sleeper Trigger (currently set to -100)
-Bankroll (can't be more than 500 to 1K)
-Table limits (can't go above them)
-Profit per 1000 spins (10 hours)
Over 1 mill spins I can figure out exactly how to tweak this monster! The Star System is great, but subtle systems like this one also need more attention. Confined to the scrapheap? I eat my words! O0
What was the max drawdown you ever had playing this?
Quote from: falkor on Oct 03, 05:25 PM 2014
THIS SYSTEM IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as I can tell THERE ARE NO BUGS ANYMORE!
Bankroll needed during these 2000 spins was 274 (EDIT: tell a lie I think it was much more than that in total). I think this level of aggression (=progression) is perfect, though I think the cold sleeper trigger could be reduced to -50, which should result in my more sleepers at one time and possibly more profit? I need to figure out a threshold between:
-Cold Sleeper Trigger (currently set to -100)
-Bankroll (can't be more than 500 to 1K)
-Table limits (can't go above them)
-Profit per 1000 spins (10 hours)
Over 1 mill spins I can figure out exactly how to tweak this monster! The Star System is great, but subtle systems like this one also need more attention. Confined to the scrapheap? I eat my words! O0
I will try playing your way...but it seems like it could possibly reach a point where they are many sleepers which would not hit (then you would be in trouble)
Edit: Tried your way, first impression is that it is a good way to profit, but im weary that at some point all the sleepers might not even hit for sometime (Then it might crash), tell me how is it with your testing. 2000 spins is little, if 10000 spins, 20000 spins it works then we can start looking deeper. If 100,000 spins it works I would show genuine interest!!!
I have to convert some If Then statements into a For loop for it to run reliably over 1000+ spins, as this system is very complex. Stay tuned!
I just explained to somebody how this system works, so here's recap for those joining this discussion late: You wait for any numbers to come in that haven't shown up in 100 spins and then you bet on them; any number that is -100 should always have at least 1 chip on it. The longest any number can not show is 498 spins - minus the 100 spins before we started betting on it - means that one number could be in play for 398 spins max. You cannot bet in progression 398 times on a single number without reaching the table limits, so you have to share the bets over other numbers that haven't shown in 100 spins, and exactly how that "dynamic betting" part should work I am at a disagreement with the inventor: I opt for a slightly more aggressive approach than him that involves each number helping out the pack more - he spreads the chips so that each number is "saved" less by the others.
Are we calling this system "The Holy Grail" by RouletteKnight? We need a name for it, but it hasn't officially been named yet.
Just one detail, in the past I have run many(really many!!!) spins to determine "sleepers". I don't have this data anymore, but I remember I recorded a maximum of a number sleeping for 600+ spins... I think the system is still good with this high number, its a very rare occurence...
Quote from: falkor on Oct 05, 11:51 AM 2014
Are we calling this system "The Holy Grail" by RouletteKnight? We need a name for it, but it hasn't officially been named yet.
RouletteKnight's Deep Sleeper System
At trigger = -150 this system seems to make 332 units every 1000 spins and requires a bankroll of about 3,000 to do that consistently. I'm currently experimenting with more settings. I've had a few technical difficulties getting it to work reliably when multiple sleepers come in, but it seems at -50 the needed bankroll skyrockets!
Just fixed a bug with number 35 not adding profit upon being the winning number.
Can't have trigger set to -150 because you can have 3 sleepers at -300 and -200, and you will reach the house limits. More sleepers are needed to help the pack. Looking at the minus range of 75-125
falkor your method doesnt work too well after awhile..too aggressive at some point I had like 6 sleepers not hitting and the bets keep increasing too fast..
Quote from: RouletteKnight on Oct 09, 08:43 AM 2014
falkor your method doesnt work too well after awhile..too aggressive at some point I had like 6 sleepers not hitting and the bets keep increasing too fast..
Exactly. I can confirm it needs table limits of 6000 to work, so scrap that. I'll have a look at the possibility of coding your less aggressive approach.
Quote from: RouletteKnight on Oct 02, 03:31 AM 2014
falkor, you got the betting all wrong.
You dont go betting 2 units (longest sleeper), 1 unit, 1 unit, then increase to 3 units, 2 units, 2 units. (If that is how you are trying to play)
That is too aggressive.
Let me lay down the rules once and for all, there will be no ambiguity.
(I highly recommend roulette xtreme as the tracking and bankroll is so easy to count)
Step 1)
You play every number that has not appeared for 100 spins.
Step 2)
check the difference of your bankroll high minus your current bankroll
(For e.g 500 - 400 = 100)
Step 3)
Compare the difference to the betting threshold.
Difference cannot exceed betting threshold. The total amount
to bet is according to the graph.
Total Bets/Betting threshold
1 unit- 35
2 units- 70
3 units- 105
4 units- 140
5 units - 175
6 units - 210
etc...
Step 4)
The way you should split the betting
is simply ..
getting the information from
step 1)
How many numbers in play.
and step 3)
How many TOTAL betting units you need.
Divide the Total betting units by the numbers in play..
*Viola*... (You will never wonder what to do if every spin
you follow these rules, sounds complicated but it is not)
..you do not have to check every spin per se, because you only need to remember
your bankroll threshold and not let it go below that. Also, other times to re-check
are every time a new sleeper is introduced or a sleeper hits.
Step 5)
Splitting in a logical manner.
Of course you won't have everything perfect in a divide all the time.
Just give priority to the longest sleeper, then 2nd longest then 3rd longest etc...
While trying to make the bets as equal as possible.
Examples:
5 total betting units, 3 sleepers.
> 2 units (longest), 1 unit, 1 unit
8 total betting units, 2 sleepers.
> 4 units, 4 units
6 total betting units, 6 sleepers
> 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit, 1 unit
7 total betting units, 4 sleepers
> 2 units (longest), 2 units (2nd longest), 2 units (3rd longest), 1 unit
7 total betting units, 3 sleepers
> 3 units (longest), 2 units, 2 units
There is NO AMBIGUITY whatsoever how to bet.
The total betting units can be derived from step 3).
The total sleepers can be derived from step 1)
The splitting is simply to bet all the numbers in the same amount,
if that is not possible then add the additional units to the longest sleeper, to the 2nd longest etc...
This is so hard to code! I wish there was an easier way I could do this... :sad2: :yawn: :'(
Quote from: falkor on Oct 15, 09:10 AM 2014
This is so hard to code! I wish there was an easier way I could do this... :sad2: :yawn: :'(
Lol, anyway at the end of the day. I don't think this method is worth the time. Eventually, you will also hit a few sleepers not hitting and will be in limbo. But the good thing is there are still profits left from past winnings as you don't bet to aggressively. Anyway, I think its better to reset the whole progression after a point if not you go chasing after losses that are not recoverable.
Quote from: RouletteKnight on Oct 02, 03:31 AM 2014
Step 1)
You play every number that has not appeared for 100 spins.
Step 2)
check the difference of your bankroll high minus your current bankroll
(For e.g 500 - 400 = 100)
Step 3)
Compare the difference to the betting threshold.
Difference cannot exceed betting threshold. The total amount
to bet is according to the graph.
Total Bets/Betting threshold
1 unit- 35
2 units- 70
3 units- 105
4 units- 140
5 units - 175
6 units - 210
etc...
Hi RouletteKnight
can you explain your money management rules with example?
i cant seem to understand
thanks