Okay before I outline the rules, I want members to understand this is my last offering. For a long while. I have serious business to deal with. I will still come on the forum two or three times a week to help others and update the progress of the methods I play.You can PM or email me at anytime, and I will do my best to help you become successful at this game. The MATRIX CONCEPT, is well known. It was perfected by Atlantis, Twisteruk and myself at the beginning of the year. It began life on the DOZENS. And still holds up on that section. But its turnover for LIVE PLAY was far too slow.
So I transferred it to the E/C particularly HIGH AND LOW. It worked but was less stable than on the dozens. Invincibility had been compromised for turnover as it nearly always is. UNITL NOW, while playing several hundred games the remedy was staring me in the face, but I just couldnt see it at the time. Then about a month ago is came to light. The very thing we were betting against (A VERTICAL COLUMN OF 5) was in fact what we should be using as our marker NOT QUADS. ITS ALWAYS THERE. Post who I know is fond of this method might have seen it as I did. So wading through 10s of thousands of spins I had trouble even counting 3 vertical columns that go beyond 4 without there being at least ONE FIVE POINTER THERE.
That is it, THE FIVE POINTER is the MARK. By betting against a vertical column going to 6 or more we have A HOLY GRAIL. Random starts running out of steam once it gets to 5. FIVE is the number that tames random. So here are the rules...
1, We record spins for ALL three even chances in three separate FOUR WIDE MATRIXES until we have a vertical formation of FIVE of any of the even chances.
2, We then commence betting using a 6 step progression 1,2,4,8,16,32=63 units risk.That it doesn't become a SIX-POINTER.
3, We need NO TRIGGER as the strikerate for FIVE POINTERS is so strong, we JUST GO. After a win, virtually ALWAYS in the first 3 bets. We start over. In over 26,000 spins for HIGH AND LOW. I have not seen one streak that went beyond the 5th step of the progression.
4, If a ZERO interrupts a vertical column we ignore it, so long as it totals 5 even chances, its a go.
There it is, not some earth shaking new concept. But please do not pass this by lightly. If this thing loses it will have delivered so many winners it will be of little significance. For a 63 UNIT buy in I believe it has no equal. Played continuosly or otherwise. It is a HOLY GRAIL as far as I am concerned. I have been using it and never gone beyond step 4 of the progression. I will post my results from100 games on. Thankyou for your patience in waiting. Now show the same in your play and winning becomes your right.
Very simple to understand and very powerful.
This afternoon, in the first french casino, i wrote all the numbers on six tables simultaneously for 3 hours :around 90 numbers by table.
I will check evrything on these numbers.
Thanks a lot John
(and don't be hypnotyzed by my logo, it's me between the tables...)
Hi John,
So, it sounds great but I have one query
We have 3 matrixes, each 4 wide.
Say one is like this:
HHLL
HLLL
HLHH
HHLH
HLHL
Column 1 has 5 vertical Highs. Do we wait for this to happen and then bet 6 times that it will change?
Thanks mate.
BW
Yes dear John. Example would be great, especialy for new people on the forum. Just to not get anything wrong. There are some people out there whom this concept of matrices is strange maybe. Thank you for posting.
Regards
Drazen
Actually, I think I can now answer myself.
You only bet once for it not to become a 6 pointer, and then wait for another vertical 5 trigger?
I'm guessing that's it, because you can get 11 vertically in a row with ECs
BW
Quote from: buffalowizard on Jul 10, 03:12 PM 2011
Actually, I think I can now answer myself.
You only bet once for it not to become a 6 pointer, and then wait for another vertical 5 trigger?
I'm guessing that's it, because you can get 11 vertically in a row with ECs
BW
Spot on BW, you win the FIRST BET a lot. But when you don't you will typically get a 6 OR 7 POINTER. Followed by a FIVE POINTER. Its always in the mix of any three or four columns that go beyond **4**
O E O O
O O O E
E O O E
E E O O
O O O O---COL 3 is our qualifier an ODD FIVE POINTER.
E O O O---LOST BET 1 as it became a 6 pointer
E O E E
O O E E
E O E O---COL 2 is our qualifier an ODD FIVE POINTER
O E E E---BET 2 wins as it is EVEN ending ODDS RUN AT 5.
Hi JL,
Well worth waiting for! And who would have thought it!
I'm assuming you need 3 banks of 63? (1 for each EC = 189u) Yes?
Regards,
Atlantis.
Quote from: atlantis on Jul 10, 03:28 PM 2011
Hi JL,
Well worth waiting for! And who would have thought it!
I'm assuming you need 3 banks of 63? (1 for each EC = 189u) Yes?
Regards,
Atlantis.
Well you could play two, ODD EVEN---HIGH LOW. You know I don't have the same enthusiasm for RED AND BLACK. They have a slightly different behaviour due to their layout on the wheel I believe. So my preference would be those two for 126 units total. I've never been tested yet Atlantis, 16 is as far as I have gone in the progression. over the last 120 real games played. I will update tomorrow. And I believe it really is randoms achilles heel. The VERTICAL CONCEPT at its ultimate conclusion my friend.
Nice one JL ;D
Thanx for sharing :thumbsup: :xd: :twisted:
JL,Thanks so much......waiting for weeks n years for this. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Twisteruk on Jul 10, 03:39 PM 2011
Nice one JL ;D
thanks for sharing :thumbsup: :xd: :twisted:
Thanks Twister hope you are good. I am glad the two members who helped me get here. Are on this thread its ours remember that. I could never have got here without you guys. And when I reach that level that rattles the cage. This will be the jewel in the crown of my five. And the thorn in the side for the Casinos. If this ever got played maistream OH MY.
Quote from: viclimks on Jul 10, 03:40 PM 2011
JL,Thanks so much......waiting for weeks n years for this. :thumbsup:
Okay, just be patient now. And build that BANKROLL. Until you are unstoppable,,,
Thank you JL, definitly worth waiting for!
4, If a ZERO interrupts a vertical column we ignore it, so long as it totals 5 even chances, its a go.
There it is, not some earth shaking new concept. But please do not pass this by lightly. If this thing loses it will have delivered so many winners it will be of little significance. For a 63 UNIT buy in I believe it has no equal. Played continuosly or otherwise. It is a HOLY GRAIL as far as I am concerned. I have been using it and never gone beyond step 4 of the progression. I will post my results from100 games on. Thankyou for your patience in waiting. Now show the same in your play and winning becomes your right.
JL.,wat you mention on ZERO,should we leave it blank n wait for the next game results?
example;1,32,36,12,13,0............LHHL
L0.............should we just ignore 0?
Thanks.
Here is my first 1000 spin continuous test with results from random.org.
H L L L
L L L H
L H H L
H H L L
H L L H
L H L L
L L H L
L L H H
L L L L
L L L L - trig col1
L H H L - L at col1 -1
L L H H
H L L H
L L H L
H H L H
H L L H
H L H H
L H H H
L H H L
L L L L
H L L L
L H L H
L L L H
L H L L -trig col3
H H L H -L at col3 -3
L H L L
L L H H
L H L H
H L H L
H L H H
L L L L
L H H L
L L L H
H L L L
H L L L
H H L L
L H H L
L L H L - trig col4
H L L L - L at col4 -7
L H H H
L H L H
H L H L
L H H L
L L L H
H H L H
L L L H
L H H H
L H H H - trig col4
H H L H - L at col4 -15
H H L L
H H H L - trig col2
L H H L - L at col2 -31
H L L L
H L H L
H H L L
L L H L
L L H L
L L H H
H H H H
L H L H
L H H H
L L L L
H H H L
L L H H
L H L L
H H H L
L H H L
H L H H
H L H H
H H L L
H L L L
H L H H -trig col1
H L L L - L at col1 -63****BUST
L H H H
H H L L
H H H H
H L L H
L L L L
H L H L
L L L H
H L L L - trig col2
L L L L - L at col2 -1
L H H H
L H L H
H H H L
H H L L
H L H L
L H L H
L H H L
L H L H
L L L L
L L L L -trig col1
H L L H -W at col1 +1
L L L H - trig col3
L H L H - L at col3 +0
L H L L
L L H H
H L L L
L H L L
L L H L
L H L L
H L H L - trig col4
L L L L - L at col4 -2
L H H H
H H H H
L L L L
L L H H
H H L H
H L L H
H H H L
L L H L
L H H L
L H L L
L H H L - trig col4
L L H H -trig col1 ; W at col4 +2
H H H L - W at col1
H L L L
H L H L
H L H L
H H L L - trig col1 ; trig col4
H L L H - L at col1 ; W at col4 +1 +3
L L L L
H L H L
L H H L
H L L L
L H H L - trig at col4
L H L H - W at col4 +4
H L H H
H L L H
L L L L
L L L L
H H L H
L L H H
L H H L
L L L H
H L H L
H H H L
L H L H
L L H L
H L H H
L H L H
L H L H
L H H H
H L H H -trig at col4
L L H L -W at col4 +5
L L H H
H H L H
H H H L
L H H H
L L L L
L H H H
L L L L
L H L H -trig col1
H L H H - W at col1 +6
H L H H
L L L L
L L H L
L H L L
H H H H
L L H L
H L L L
H L H H
H H L H
L L L H
L L L L
L H H L
L L H L
L L L H - trig col1
H L H H - W at col1 +7
H L H L
H H L L
L L L L
L L H L
H L H L - trig at col4
H H H H - W at col4 +8
H L H L
L L L H
H L H H
L L L L
L H L H
L H H H
H L H H
H H H H
H L L H - trig at col4
H H L H -L at col4 +7
L H L H
L H L L
L L L L -trig col3
H L H L -W at col3 +9
H L H H
H H H L
H L L H
H H H L - trig col1
L H L L -W at col1 +10
L H L H
L H H H
L L H L
L L L H - trig col1
H H L H - W at col1 +11
H L L H
L L L H
H L L L - trig col3
L H H H - W at col3 +12
H L H L
H L H H
L H L H
L H L L
H H H H
H H L H
H H H L - trig col2
L L H H - W at col2 +13
L L H H
H L L L
H H L L
L L H L
H L L H
H L H L
H H L H
L H H H
H H L H
H H H L
H L H L
H L L H
L H H H
L L H L
L L H H
L H H H
H L H L - trig col3
H L H L - L at col3 +12
L L L L
H H H H
L H L H
L L H H
L H L L
H L L H
L H H H
H L H L
H L L H
L H L H
H L L H
L L H L
H L H L
H L L H
L L H L - trig col2
L H L H - W at col2 +14
H L L H
L L L L
H H H L
H L L H
L H L L
OK. So not so great start for my test. Assuming I've done it right I get a complete loss of
progression in the first half, and a +14 in the second half. Just shows it CAN happen!!!
Amazing - and it happens on my VERY FIRST TEST!!! :(
Obviously this happened because I got a sequence or succession of losers occurring across all
four columns simultaneously which I imagine is pretty rare...?
Now - only way I can see to counteract this sort of circumstance is to have separate progression
for EACH COLUMN....
Doing that turns this unwelcome result around, and the result is POSITIVE - Each separate column
WINS (or at the very least at the end of the spins is still well inside the progression)
WHY? Because there were not more than FIVE six-pointers in succession in each INDIVIDUAL
COLUMN of the matrix 4 columns.
What do you think John?
Check out the w/l registry for each of the four EC columns:
COL1: LLWWLWWW = 5 wins
COL2: LLWW = 2 wins
COL3: LLWWL = 2 wins (so far)
COL4: LLLWWWWWL = 5 wins (so far)
Played that way the highest step of the progression reached in any one column is the 4th step (1-2-4-8) in col 4 - and a win occurs on that step.
But as I say you would need 4x63u progression bank...
Regards and sorry to be the bearer of bad news - (but better now than later),
Atlantis.
A,
In your results it looks like its better to bet FOR rather than against :o :o :o
Those 6 pointers aren't as rare (on random.org anyway!)
I have been getting similar sequences.
What if we bet continously without waiting for the next trigger to show up. For example:
LHLL
LLLH
LHHH
LHLL
LLHH----so triger col 1
LLLH----- Down 1 unit
HHLL----- If we bet on col using the 2nd stage of progression will be positive and Atlantis testing
will show a positive as well. I'm sure that i'm wrong the way i'm playing but just wanted to see what you guys think.
Atlantis,
You don't even have the zero factored in or did you qualify the zero has low?
CD
Quote from: buffalowizard on Jul 10, 05:12 PM 2011
Those 6 pointers aren't as rare (on random.org anyway!)
I have been getting similar sequences.
Hi BW,
I am quite willing to accept that JL is right and played correctly on a ZERO table and with real numbers it could be entirely different scenario - but I have to admit it was pretty scary to encounter a bust-out on my first tryout with randomly generated results -and without a ZERO too! I have not faked those results - that was what it churned out much to my disappointment.
I don't mind telling you it shook me a bit and made me very wary about what can happen in Roulette. All I'm saying it could be a fluke result but - you never know...
Don't get me wrong - I want more than anything for this to work and I'm grateful to JL for posting this.
A.
Dear Fellow Hard Grafters,
Had we been betting with someone's progression posted here link:://rouletteforum.cc/money-management/even-chance-progression/ (link:://rouletteforum.cc/money-management/even-chance-progression/) we would have actually won 12 units.
Granted, it's starts out about as bad as we can imagine, but then it settles down into a more normal, we hope, pattern that takes advantage of my progression.
I will post a play by play account of how my progression would have saved the day in my next post.
Thanks again JL for this system. It's the one most to my liking of all that has been posted here. Right up there with Divide and Conquer and Code 4.
GLC
Hi JL Thanks for your new method...Looks great.. :smile:
This method you have to use seperate banks for each Even chance....You can't jump from one EC to another EC tigger using same progression...3 seperate progressions for each EC...So if you only have 63 units to play with u can only choose 1 EC and stick to it.
Well this is how i read it anyway..Hopeful John can confirm
Cheers
My progression:
1
2
4
8
6 Let it ride once
8 Let it ride once
10 ''
13 ''
18 ''
11 Let it ride twice
12 ''
14 ''
16 ''
18 ''
21 ''
24 ''
27 ''
It continues, but we don't need the rest of it. If you're interested, follow the link in my previous post for the entire progression.
Here's Atlantis' results bet against my progression.
L 1 -1
L 2 -3
L 4 -7
L 8 -15
L 6 -21 From here on we have to win 1st bet plus a parlay
L 8 -29
L 10 -39
W 13 -26 Next bet is parlay 13+13=26
L 26 -52
L 18 -70
W 11 -59 From here on we have to win 1st bet plus 2 parlays
W 22 -37 Won 1st parlay
L 44 -81 Lost 2nd parlay
W 12 -69 Next bet in progression is 12
W 24 -45 won 1st parlay
W 48 +3 won 2nd parlay
W 1 +1 reset to 1
W 1 +1
W 1 +1
L 1 -1
W 2 +1
W 1 +1
W 1 +1
W 1 +1
W 1 +1
L 1 -1
W 2 +1
____
+12
Cheers, :lol:
GLC
Thanks JohnLegend for this amazing method, I can't say enough ....... 26000 spins, thats a lot of research..........
"Deep" that Atlantis's first test landed in such a fashion.....
I do feel however, that we can only really conclude that we have tested a method when it has been tested over past live wheel spin data....... Computer generated spins are not alive.....
JohnLegend Quote:
"1, We record spins for ALL three even chances in three separate FOUR WIDE MATRIXES until we have a vertical formation of FIVE of any of the even chances."
The method is perfect.... However, after Atlantis's test run I was inspired to think outside of the box again... When we lose our first bet in one of the qualified EC's, we do not continue playing in it. We wait for the next 5 POINTER in the other two EC's then bet against it... If this were to lose we switch again....
Very happy that this thread has started, this is just the beginning..... for us at least JL :)
Quote from: ZigZag on Jul 10, 05:33 PM 2011
Hi JL Thanks for your new method...Looks great.. :smile:
This method you have to use separate banks for each Even chance....You can't jump from one EC to another EC tigger using same progression...3 separate progressions for each EC...So if you only have 63 units to play with You can only choose 1 EC and stick to it.
Well this is how I read it anyway..Hopeful John can confirm
Cheers
OMGAWD! Where have you been Zig I thought aliens had abducted you.
Quote from: atlantis on Jul 10, 04:50 PM 2011
Here is my first 1000 spin continuous test with results from random.org.
H L L L
L L L H
L H H L
H H L L
H L L H
L H L L
L L H L
L L H H
L L L L
L L L L - trig col1
L H H L - L at col1 -1
L L H H
H L L H
L L H L
H H L H
H L L H
H L H H
L H H H
L H H L
L L L L
H L L L
L H L H
L L L H
L H L L -trig col3
H H L H -L at col3 -3
L H L L
L L H H
L H L H
H L H L
H L H H
L L L L
L H H L
L L L H
H L L L
H L L L
H H L L
L H H L
L L H L - trig col4
H L L L - L at col4 -7
L H H H
L H L H
H L H L
L H H L
L L L H
H H L H
L L L H
L H H H
L H H H - trig col4
H H L H - L at col4 -15
H H L L
H H H L - trig col2
L H H L - L at col2 -31
H L L L
H L H L
H H L L
L L H L
L L H L
L L H H
H H H H
L H L H
L H H H
L L L L
H H H L
L L H H
L H L L
H H H L
L H H L
H L H H
H L H H
H H L L
H L L L
H L H H -trig col1
H L L L - L at col1 -63****BUST
L H H H
H H L L
H H H H
H L L H
L L L L
H L H L
L L L H
H L L L - trig col2
L L L L - L at col2 -1
L H H H
L H L H
H H H L
H H L L
H L H L
L H L H
L H H L
L H L H
L L L L
L L L L -trig col1
H L L H -W at col1 +1
L L L H - trig col3
L H L H - L at col3 +0
L H L L
L L H H
H L L L
L H L L
L L H L
L H L L
H L H L - trig col4
L L L L - L at col4 -2
L H H H
H H H H
L L L L
L L H H
H H L H
H L L H
H H H L
L L H L
L H H L
L H L L
L H H L - trig col4
L L H H -trig col1 ; W at col4 +2
H H H L - W at col1
H L L L
H L H L
H L H L
H H L L - trig col1 ; trig col4
H L L H - L at col1 ; W at col4 +1 +3
L L L L
H L H L
L H H L
H L L L
L H H L - trig at col4
L H L H - W at col4 +4
H L H H
H L L H
L L L L
L L L L
H H L H
L L H H
L H H L
L L L H
H L H L
H H H L
L H L H
L L H L
H L H H
L H L H
L H L H
L H H H
H L H H -trig at col4
L L H L -W at col4 +5
L L H H
H H L H
H H H L
L H H H
L L L L
L H H H
L L L L
L H L H -trig col1
H L H H - W at col1 +6
H L H H
L L L L
L L H L
L H L L
H H H H
L L H L
H L L L
H L H H
H H L H
L L L H
L L L L
L H H L
L L H L
L L L H - trig col1
H L H H - W at col1 +7
H L H L
H H L L
L L L L
L L H L
H L H L - trig at col4
H H H H - W at col4 +8
H L H L
L L L H
H L H H
L L L L
L H L H
L H H H
H L H H
H H H H
H L L H - trig at col4
H H L H -L at col4 +7
L H L H
L H L L
L L L L -trig col3
H L H L -W at col3 +9
H L H H
H H H L
H L L H
H H H L - trig col1
L H L L -W at col1 +10
L H L H
L H H H
L L H L
L L L H - trig col1
H H L H - W at col1 +11
H L L H
L L L H
H L L L - trig col3
L H H H - W at col3 +12
H L H L
H L H H
L H L H
L H L L
H H H H
H H L H
H H H L - trig col2
L L H H - W at col2 +13
L L H H
H L L L
H H L L
L L H L
H L L H
H L H L
H H L H
L H H H
H H L H
H H H L
H L H L
H L L H
L H H H
L L H L
L L H H
L H H H
H L H L - trig col3
H L H L - L at col3 +12
L L L L
H H H H
L H L H
L L H H
L H L L
H L L H
L H H H
H L H L
H L L H
L H L H
H L L H
L L H L
H L H L
H L L H
L L H L - trig col2
L H L H - W at col2 +14
H L L H
L L L L
H H H L
H L L H
L H L L
OK. So not so great start for my test. Assuming I've done it right I get a complete loss of
progression in the first half, and a +14 in the second half. Just shows it CAN happen!!!
Amazing - and it happens on my VERY FIRST TEST!!! :(
Obviously this happened because I got a sequence or succession of losers occurring across all
four columns simultaneously which I imagine is pretty rare...?
Now - only way I can see to counteract this sort of circumstance is to have separate progression
for EACH COLUMN....
Doing that turns this unwelcome result around, and the result is POSITIVE - Each separate column
WINS (or at the very least at the end of the spins is still well inside the progression)
WHY? Because there were not more than FIVE six-pointers in succession in each INDIVIDUAL
COLUMN of the matrix 4 columns.
What do you think John?
Check out the w/l registry for each of the four EC columns:
COL1: LLWWLWWW = 5 wins
COL2: LLWW = 2 wins
COL3: LLWWL = 2 wins (so far)
COL4: LLLWWWWWL = 5 wins (so far)
Played that way the highest step of the progression reached in any one column is the 4th step (1-2-4-8) in col 4 - and a win occurs on that step.
But as I say you would need 4x63u progression bank...
Regards and sorry to be the bearer of bad news - (but better now than later),
Atlantis.
Atlantis, all is not bad that is at random.org no zero afterall. Out of interest Atlantis how does the forerunner MATRIX VERTICAL 5 perform over the same sample. As I can see QUADS splitting the SIX POINTERS in that losing first half. And in my real play Since I have never seen more than 6 FIVE POINTERS before a QUAD. I am going on results from live casinos with a Zero wheel. Maybe I tried to fix it when it wasnt broken in the first place. Post kept telling me MV5 was the one. Also Londonboys, most vertical columns don't go beyond 7. So with a stop-loss. That could be a go.
Quote from: ZigZag on Jul 10, 05:33 PM 2011
Hi JL Thanks for your new method...Looks great.. :smile:
This method you have to use separate banks for each Even chance....You can't jump from one EC to another EC tigger using same progression...3 separate progressions for each EC...So if you only have 63 units to play with You can only choose 1 EC and stick to it.
Well this is how I read it anyway..Hopeful John can confirm
Cheers
I think ZigZag's approach could be better then what I just mentioned.....
3 BR's for each EC....
Regardless.... I know that this method will only deliver good results.......
Quote from: marivo on Jul 10, 06:11 PM 2011
Am I wrong or is it +10?
Count all the +'s. Ignore the -'s because they are resolved at the next +.
Quote from: GLC on Jul 10, 07:20 PM 2011
Count all the +'s. Ignore the -'s because they are resolved at the next +.
Oh i see, thanks!
Quote from: amk on Jul 10, 07:13 PM 2011
I think ZigZag's approach could be better then what I just mentioned.....
3 BR's for each EC....
Regardless.... I know that this method will only deliver good results.......
just alternating the trigger and the progression between the ec's would make it even harder to beat.
like
1st step for HL
2nd step Odd/even
3rd step H/L
...
etc
Quote from: amk on Jul 10, 06:50 PM 2011
Thanks JohnLegend for this amazing method, I can't say enough ....... 26000 spins, that's a lot of research..........
"Deep" that Atlantis's first test landed in such a fashion.....
I do feel however, that we can only really conclude that we have tested a method when it has been tested over past live wheel spin data....... Computer generated spins are not alive.....
JohnLegend Quote:
"1, We record spins for ALL three even chances in three separate FOUR WIDE MATRIXES until we have a vertical formation of FIVE of any of the even chances."
The method is perfect.... However, after Atlantis's test run I was inspired to think outside of the box again... When we lose our first bet in one of the qualified ECs, we do not continue playing in it. We wait for the next 5 POINTER in the other two ECs then bet against it... If this were to lose we switch again....
Very happy that this thread has started, this is just the beginning..... for us at least JL :)
I think that is an excellent idea AMK. Playing it tonight HIGH LOW took 4 steps to show a FIVE POINTER. But ODD EVEN delivered one immediately. So if CRISS CROSSING between the two the win would have been step two of the progression.
Quote from: ZeroBlue on Jul 10, 07:30 PM 2011
just alternating the trigger and the progression between the ECs would make it even harder to beat.
like
1st step for HL
2nd step Odd/even
3rd step H/L
...
etc
I think you are spot on here ZEROBLUE. My recent results for HIGH LOW/ODD EVEN show a Five pointer showing early on one of them if not on the other.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Jul 10, 06:57 PM 2011
OMGAWD! Where have you been Zig I thought aliens had abducted you.
Haha just took a little time out...had to sort out a few things on the home front..All is well :thumbsup:
Quote from: ZeroBlue on Jul 10, 07:30 PM 2011
just alternating the trigger and the progression between the ECs would make it even harder to beat.
like
1st step for HL
2nd step Odd/even
3rd step H/L
...
etc
what if u have HL and EO trigger at the same spin?
(if lost)will next single EC have to recover of losses of previous 2?
In that case progression should be dynamic according to loss since beginning of progression.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Jul 10, 07:39 PM 2011
I think you are spot on here ZEROBLUE. My recent results for HIGH LOW/ODD EVEN show a Five pointer showing early on one of them if not on the other.
the larger the pattern, in this case is a six pattern, the larger the progression sure, but also the larger are the odds.
in this case for a six pattern there are 64 possible outcomes and only two 2 of those configure a loss.
so we have 62:2 or 31:1
there is nothing new here except the mechanics used. A matrix.
The maths purists will say that all spins are independent and roulette has no memory, so in a pure form in terms of flat betting as we only bet after the 5th outcome, it would mean we have a 1:1 chance WL.
This is the seduction of the gamblers fallacy.
i love it.
The difference is that in heuristic terms it is hard to find the loosing pattern so in theory the fluctuation of the distribution will be a very long curve.
We all should know that it would eventually end in a 50/50 minus the zero. But who cares? The heuristic expectation is that we may have 31 wins for each loss. In this case if we land on a favorable distribution we will win a lot.
There is a funny thing wich is why we select this pattern and not any other.
this is not different scheemme than code 4 or pattern breaker 4 etc
we can choose any pattern and results would be the same.
take for instance
HLHLH->I can bet H here with exactly the same odds.
If the tests are conducted with any pattern with separate banks for each pattern they would show similar results between all patterns.
I already posted at the forum my ways to take some advantage of the gamblers fallacy by choosing a stable 50:50 Bet selection, (this is one of them right here) and applying Lw filters to reduce fluctuation and with a good mm we can all be winners.
For me the search for a good bet selection must be statistical.
0 blue
Quote from: ophis on Jul 10, 07:59 PM 2011
what if You have HL and EO trigger at the same spin?
(if lost)will next single EC have to recover of losses of previous 2?
In that case progression should be dynamic according to loss since beginning of progression.
that is a good point and an excellent trigger for a special bet.
As i posted previously, any pattern would do for the test. It would have to be the same pattern in 2 different ec's for the trigger.
This would give a very nice statistical study indeed.
regarding progression i would choose anything but martingale. there are plenty of choices. reverse labouchere would deserve a test.
this adds up to my previous post and to all my ideas in filtering LW registry.
0 blue
ZeroBlue Quote:
"As I posted previously, any pattern would do for the test."
If this is the case then we could observe for several different 5 pointers in different patterns at the same time..........
Once we see a 5 pointer, in any pattern, IN ANY EC, we select it and stay with it...
Alternating between EC"S after a lose....
Example:
H L H L
L L H H
H L H L
L L H H
H OR L OR H OR L
This would increase our HIT AND RUN potential......
Do we bet for or against the pattern??!?
Is MV6 "RNG friendly"? American Wheel friendly?
Hi all
It seems JL is doing fantastic with these methods of play,like he said he play multiple ways..i just feel uncomfortable risking 63 units to win 1 unit..scary,and i know it is Gambling.So my search go on :'(
Good luck all those winning with this.Cheers.
Seykid.
Quote from: seykid31 on Jul 11, 01:10 AM 2011
Hi all
It seems JL is doing fantastic with these methods of play,like he said he play multiple ways..i just feel uncomfortable risking 63 units to win 1 unit..scary,and I know it is Gambling.So my search go on :'(
Good luck all those winning with this.Cheers.
Seykid.
I do think some good ideas have been posted esp. by GLC on progression and amk and Zer0Blue on switching columns. I believe some kind of tweak IS and will be required.
Remember not too long ago someone was selling a roulette tracker-type program. The premise of it regarding EC's was very simple... Wait for six misses on one side then start betting the other with marty...
It worked good for a time; but because dealing with only 2 outcomes sooner or later it hit the long losing run and consequently the wipeout occurred! After that the message from the software was: "Try playing at another casino instead" :o
Now a matrix way of recording is quite different to normal roulette recording but even so we're still dealing with the 2 states of an EC.
You could try JL's idea with 5 pointer dozens - but then we're back to double dozen betting again.
To have FAITH in a system is one thing. To KNOW absolutely that it will always work is another. It is the TRUTH of the matter, as always, that counts so that we are not misled or labour under any kind of misapprehension. If it does FAIL we shall be disappointed - - let's all agree to work toward making it more solid and reliable so that the chances of failure are much reduced and harder to happen....
Regards,
A.
Quote from: atlantis on Jul 10, 04:50 PM 2011
Here is my first 1000 spin continuous test with results from random.org.
H L L L
L L L H
L H H L
H H L L
H L L H
L H L L
L L H L
L L H H
L L L L
L L L L - trig col1
L H H L - L at col1 -1
L L H H
H L L H
L L H L
H H L H
H L L H
H L H H
L H H H
L H H L
L L L L
H L L L
L H L H
L L L H
L H L L -trig col3
H H L H -L at col3 -3
L H L L
L L H H
L H L H
H L H L
H L H H
L L L L
L H H L
L L L H
H L L L
H L L L
H H L L
L H H L
L L H L - trig col4
H L L L - L at col4 -7
L H H H
L H L H
H L H L
L H H L
L L L H
H H L H
L L L H
L H H H
L H H H - trig col4
H H L H - L at col4 -15
H H L L
H H H L - trig col2
L H H L - L at col2 -31
H L L L
H L H L
H H L L
L L H L
L L H L
L L H H
H H H H
L H L H
L H H H
L L L L
H H H L
L L H H
L H L L
H H H L
L H H L
H L H H
H L H H
H H L L
H L L L
H L H H -trig col1
H L L L - L at col1 -63****BUST
L H H H
H H L L
H H H H
H L L H
L L L L
H L H L
L L L H
H L L L - trig col2
L L L L - L at col2 -1
L H H H
L H L H
H H H L
H H L L
H L H L
L H L H
L H H L
L H L H
L L L L
L L L L -trig col1
H L L H -W at col1 +1
L L L H - trig col3
L H L H - L at col3 +0
L H L L
L L H H
H L L L
L H L L
L L H L
L H L L
H L H L - trig col4
L L L L - L at col4 -2
L H H H
H H H H
L L L L
L L H H
H H L H
H L L H
H H H L
L L H L
L H H L
L H L L
L H H L - trig col4
L L H H -trig col1 ; W at col4 +2
H H H L - W at col1
H L L L
H L H L
H L H L
H H L L - trig col1 ; trig col4
H L L H - L at col1 ; W at col4 +1 +3
L L L L
H L H L
L H H L
H L L L
L H H L - trig at col4
L H L H - W at col4 +4
H L H H
H L L H
L L L L
L L L L
H H L H
L L H H
L H H L
L L L H
H L H L
H H H L
L H L H
L L H L
H L H H
L H L H
L H L H
L H H H
H L H H -trig at col4
L L H L -W at col4 +5
L L H H
H H L H
H H H L
L H H H
L L L L
L H H H
L L L L
L H L H -trig col1
H L H H - W at col1 +6
H L H H
L L L L
L L H L
L H L L
H H H H
L L H L
H L L L
H L H H
H H L H
L L L H
L L L L
L H H L
L L H L
L L L H - trig col1
H L H H - W at col1 +7
H L H L
H H L L
L L L L
L L H L
H L H L - trig at col4
H H H H - W at col4 +8
H L H L
L L L H
H L H H
L L L L
L H L H
L H H H
H L H H
H H H H
H L L H - trig at col4
H H L H -L at col4 +7
L H L H
L H L L
L L L L -trig col3
H L H L -W at col3 +9
H L H H
H H H L
H L L H
H H H L - trig col1
L H L L -W at col1 +10
L H L H
L H H H
L L H L
L L L H - trig col1
H H L H - W at col1 +11
H L L H
L L L H
H L L L - trig col3
L H H H - W at col3 +12
H L H L
H L H H
L H L H
L H L L
H H H H
H H L H
H H H L - trig col2
L L H H - W at col2 +13
L L H H
H L L L
H H L L
L L H L
H L L H
H L H L
H H L H
L H H H
H H L H
H H H L
H L H L
H L L H
L H H H
L L H L
L L H H
L H H H
H L H L - trig col3
H L H L - L at col3 +12
L L L L
H H H H
L H L H
L L H H
L H L L
H L L H
L H H H
H L H L
H L L H
L H L H
H L L H
L L H L
H L H L
H L L H
L L H L - trig col2
L H L H - W at col2 +14
H L L H
L L L L
H H H L
H L L H
L H L L
OK. So not so great start for my test. Assuming I've done it right I get a complete loss of
progression in the first half, and a +14 in the second half. Just shows it CAN happen!!!
Amazing - and it happens on my VERY FIRST TEST!!! :(
Obviously this happened because I got a sequence or succession of losers occurring across all
four columns simultaneously which I imagine is pretty rare...?
Now - only way I can see to counteract this sort of circumstance is to have separate progression
for EACH COLUMN....
Doing that turns this unwelcome result around, and the result is POSITIVE - Each separate column
WINS (or at the very least at the end of the spins is still well inside the progression)
WHY? Because there were not more than FIVE six-pointers in succession in each INDIVIDUAL
COLUMN of the matrix 4 columns.
What do you think John?
Check out the w/l registry for each of the four EC columns:
COL1: LLWWLWWW = 5 wins
COL2: LLWW = 2 wins
COL3: LLWWL = 2 wins (so far)
COL4: LLLWWWWWL = 5 wins (so far)
Played that way the highest step of the progression reached in any one column is the 4th step (1-2-4-8) in col 4 - and a win occurs on that step.
But as I say you would need 4x63u progression bank...
Regards and sorry to be the bearer of bad news - (but better now than later),
Atlantis.
--------------------
@atlantis Try to lose the progression playing against quads : link:://rouletteforum.cc/full-systems/*matrix-vertical-5*-(for-hi-and-lo)/msg61691/#msg61691 (link:://rouletteforum.cc/full-systems/*matrix-vertical-5*-(for-hi-and-lo)/msg61691/#msg61691)
I'm still getting lucky
vundarosa
Quote from: atlantis on Jul 11, 02:17 AM 2011
I do think some good ideas have been posted especially. by GLC on progression and amk and Zer0Blue on switching columns. I believe some kind of tweak IS and will be required.
Remember not too long ago someone was selling a roulette tracker-type program. The premise of it regarding ECs was very simple... Wait for six misses on one side then start betting the other with marty...
It worked good for a time; but because dealing with only 2 outcomes sooner or later it hit the long losing run and consequently the wipeout occurred! After that the message from the software was: "Try playing at another casino instead" :o
Now a matrix way of recording is quite different to normal roulette recording but even so we're still dealing with the 2 states of an EC.
You could try JL's idea with 5 pointer dozens - but then we're back to double dozen betting again.
To have FAITH in a system is one thing. To KNOW absolutely that it will always work is another. It is the TRUTH of the matter, as always, that counts so that we are not misled or labour under any kind of misapprehension. If it does FAIL we shall be disappointed - - let's all agree to work toward making it more solid and reliable so that the chances of failure are much reduced and harder to happen....
Regards,
A.
I must agree with you Dear Atlantis. It seems we are on the same wave of thought.
In my opinion the mechanics of the matrix should be exploited regarding series.
What i mean by this is another way to get less fluctuation and less exposure.
If we simply aim for series and chops it would be easy to attack once after two series in a row chop.
example
H
H
L
L
L
L
H ----> here bet L
now if we start from here and play for real after a Loss how would it perform?
Zer0Blue
Before we start all the tweeking,
does anyone have more than one loss in a set of 1000 spins in a zero table?!
vundarosa
:thumbsup:n
Quote from: vundarosa on Jul 11, 04:05 AM 2011
Before we start all the tweeking,
does anyone have more than one loss in a set of 1000 spins in a zero table?!
vundarosa
I don't have one loss in 26,000 live spins Vundarosa, but remember my records never go for 1,000 spins at a time. 4-500 at most. So its still a kind of hit and run. I echo your question to Atlantis. HOW DOES MATRIX VERTICAL 5 hold up at RANDOM.ORG?
Post and myself have played it with great success. I'm not too proud to admit I might have been wrong. I can only go with what the results show me.
If MV5 is actually the better method afterall I want it known to all.
The one thing that I am interested in is betting on a five pointer to not become an 8 pointer. The strikerate is there for that it really is. Although Twister and myself have both seen 11 plus. They don't happen often. I will post my 140 games for MV6 later.
Just to make it clear.
###
We play on 3 EC at the same time.
Treating each of them as a seperate game with seperate progression?
And they not affect each other?
###
If we encounter ZERO do we ignore it in tracking?
###
Are we looking for new patern at any point?
HLHL
HLLH
LLHH
HLHH
HLHH
LLHH
Or we looking for new patern since last win/lose?
HLHL
HLLH
LLHH
HLHH
HLHH
LLHH
LLHL
HLHL
LHHL
HHHL
Quote from: ophis on Jul 11, 07:34 AM 2011
Just to make it clear.
###
We play on 3 EC at the same time.
Treating each of them as a separate game with separate progression?
And they not affect each other?
###
If we encounter ZERO do we ignore it in tracking?
###
Are we looking for new patern at any point?
HLHL
HLLH
LLHH
HLHH
HLHH
LLHH
Or we looking for new patern since last win/lose?
HLHL
HLLH
LLHH
HLHH
HLHH
LLHH
LLHL
HLHL
LHHL
HHHL
Hello Ophis, Because of BR required. I recommend you pick TWO of the even chances for any given session.
We have one attempt at every FIVE POINTER THAT FORMS. Hoping it stays a FIVE POINTER. If we lose we bet the next FIVE POINTER that forms for a maximum of SIX ATTEMPTS 63 UNITS RISK.
Now regarding betting Against a FIVE POINTER becoming say a NINE POINTER. I think theres a very solid method here. NINE POINTERS or more do happen.
But they are vastly outnumbered by 5-8 POINTERS. I'm not sure of the strikerate yet. But it will be at least 25/1. And with 15 units required. I think we could have a method on par with THE PATTERN BREAKER. Only slightly faster turnover. You could even say this is THE VERTICAL ZONE for even chances. The optimum frame where vertical formations come to rest. Ive seen enough of them fall between 5--8 to know its more solid than the ZONE for DOZENS...
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Jul 11, 12:15 AM 2011
Is MV6 "RNG friendly"? American Wheel friendly?
Only one way to find out Proof. I think betting against FIVE POINTERS becoming NINE POINTERS should be. Ive just counted 36 of them between a NINE POINTER and TEN POINTER...
Hi Jl, i posted a comment yesterday. Can you let me know if thats what you were talking about a 5 pointer not becoming and 8 or nine
LHLL
LLLH
LHHH
LHLL
LLHH----so triger col 1
LLLH----- Down 1 unit
HHLL----- we bet on col using the 2nd stage of progression
try to simulate it at random.org...
::)
Hello Atlantis,
Concerning your first 1000 spin test which had a loss.....
If possible could you run several more, say ten, I think you'll win them all....
We all agree that MV6 will lose at some point, could be the first set you play or your 1000...
When it is the first we cannot yet draw a solid conclusion. We then have placed ourselves in a situation where we have to proceed forward until we register another loss. Then I believe we have a far greater picture.....
Quote from: amk on Jul 11, 11:28 AM 2011
Hello Atlantis,
Concerning your first 1000 spin test which had a loss.....
If possible could you run several more, say ten, I think you'll win them all....
We all agree that MV6 will lose at some point, could be the first set you play or your 1000...
When it is the first we cannot yet draw a solid conclusion. We then have placed ourselves in a situation where we have to proceed forward until we register another loss. Then I believe we have a far greater picture.....
----------------------
I won that section betting against quads!
vundarosa
:girl_to:
Quote from: amk on Jul 11, 11:28 AM 2011
Hello Atlantis,
Concerning your first 1000 spin test which had a loss.....
If possible could you run several more, say ten, I think you'll win them all....
We all agree that MV6 will lose at some point, could be the first set you play or your 1000...
When it is the first we cannot yet draw a solid conclusion. We then have placed ourselves in a situation where we have to proceed forward until we register another loss. Then I believe we have a far greater picture.....
This is true AMK,'plus every method seems to go belly up at random,org while in the real world they are profittable. If I bring out MV7 there will be 6 formations that go beyond 6. If we have MV8 there will be 6 that go beyond 7. OR WILL THERE BE?. Find the biting point Atlantis. What does it take to defeat RANDOM,ORG
Surely if its MV7 We have the one. Or did we already have it in MV5 These are my questions...
No matter what digit you add after the MV?? the result is still going to be 48.65% in your favour, and before you ask, yes I botted it this morning, using your cutoff point of 1,2,4,6,16,32 it flopped around every 80 triggers on average, without your cutoff it survives BUT as usual with an ec bet & martingale, the progression gets steep at some point, around 80% of the wins were below 128 units the rest were 256 and over, a few times well over.
Maybe I played it wrong though lol
Quote from: vundarosa on Jul 11, 12:12 PM 2011
----------------------
I won that section betting against quads!
vundarosa
Yes Vundarosa, I'm beginning to think we already had it with MV5. I mean I ve played 450 games now and only lost three times.
And as you said even Random.org couldnt defeat MV5 over that 1,000 spin sample.
Sorry JohnLegend,
Just a quick brainstorm.... I know its off topic...
Perhaps you might take a look at your records, just a quick glance....
HLHL
HLHH
HHHL
HLHL
Here we see two quads forming alongside each other, this is the trigger, now start the six step progression that two 7 pointers don't form next to each other..... 6 pointers could perhaps also be played against.....
If there is something to this it could be incorporated into MV6 while playing?
This might be interesting to some.
Here is SAME 1000 spin continuous test (results from random.org) I used for my MV6 test.
Tracked 2 lines then looked at last TWO vertical results in each column.
If the results were different I then bet for the CHOP to continue...
If the results were the same then I bet for the STREAK to continue...
STOP AT A WINNER!
Use GLC EC progression?
H L L L - first line results
L L L H - second line results
L H H L - L,L,L,W
H H L L - L,L,W
H L L H - L,L,L,L
L H L L - L,W (6th step)
L L H L - L,W
L L H H - W
L L L L - W
L L L L - W
L H H L - W
L L H H - W
H L L H - L,L,L,L
L L H L - W (5th step)
H H L H - W
H L L H - L,W
H L H H - W
L H H H - L,L,L,W
L H H L - L,L,W
L L L L - W
H L L L - L,L,L,W
L H L H - W
L L L H - L,W
L H L L - W
H H L H - L,L,W
L H L L - L,W
L L H H - L,L,L,W
L H L H - W
H L H L - L,W
H L H H - L,L,L,W
L L L L - L,W
L H H L - L,L,W
L L L H - W
H L L L - L,L,L,W
H L L L - L,W
H H L L - W
L H H L - L,L,L,W
L L H L - L,L,L,W
H L L L - L,L,L,W
L H H H - W
L H L H - L,L,W
H L H L - L,L,W
L H H L - W
L L L H - L,W
H H L H - L,W
L L L H - W
L H H H - L,W
L H H H - W
H H L H - L,W
H H L L - L,W
H H H L - W
L H H L - L,W
H L L L - W
H L H L - L,L,W
H H L L - W
L L H L - L,W
L L H L - L,L,L,W
L L H H - W
H H H H - L,L,W
L H L H - W
L H H H - L,W
L L L L - W
H H H L - L,W
L L H H - W
L H L L - L,W
H H H L - L,L,W
L H H L - W
H L H H - W
H L H H - L,L,W
H H L L - W
H L L L - W
H L H H - W
H L L L - W
L H H H - L,L,W
H H L L - W
H H H H - L,W
H L L H - W
L L L L - L,L,L,L
H L H L - W (5th step)
L L L H - W
H L L L - W
L L L L - W
L H H H - L,L,L,L
L H L H - W (5th step)
H H H L - L,W
H H L L - L,W
H L H L - W
L H L H - L,W
L H H L - L,L,W
L H L H - W
L L L L - W
L L L L - W
H L L H - L,W
L L L H - W
L H L H - L,L,W
L H L L - W
L L H H - W
H L L L - L,L,W
L H L L - W
L L H L - L,W
L H L L - W
H L H L - L,W
L L L L - W
L H H H - L,L,W
H H H H - L,L,L,L
L L L L - W (5th step)
L L H H - L,L,W
H H L H - L,L,W
H L L H - L,W
H H H L - W
L L H L - L,W
L H H L - L,W
L H L L - W
L H H L - W
L L H H - W
H H H L - L,W
H L L L - L,W
H L H L - W
H L H L - W
H H L L - W
H L L H - W
L L L L - L,L,W
H L H L - W
L H H L - W
H L L L - W
L H H L - W
L H L H - L,L,W
H L H H - L,L,W
H L L H - L,L,W
L L L L - L,W
L L L L - L,W
H H L H - L,L,W
L L H H - W
L H H L - L,W
L L L H - W
H L H L - L,L,W
H H H L - L,L,L,L*
L H L H - L,L,L,L*
L L H L - L,L,W (11th step)
H L H H - L,L,L,W
L H L H - W
L H L H - L,L,L,W
L H H H - W
H L H H - L,L,L,W
L L H L - W
L L H H - L,W
H H L H - L,L,L,L
H H H L - L,L,W (7th step)
L H H H - L,W
L L L L - L,L,L,W
L H H H - W
L L L L - W
L H L H - W
H L H H - L,W
H L H H - L,L,L,W
L L L L - L,W
L L H L - L,W
L H L L - W
H H H H - L,L,W
L L H L - W
H L L L - W
H L H H - L,W
H H L H - W
L L L H - L,W
L L L L - L,L,W
L H H L - W
L L H L - W
L L L H - W
H L H H - L,W
H L H L - L,W
H H L L - W
L L L L - L,W
L L H L - L,L,L,W
H L H L - L,W
H H H H - L,L,W
H L H L - W
L L L H - L,L,L,W
H L H H - W
L L L L - W
L H L H - L,L,L,W
L H H H - W
H L H H - L,L,L,W
H H H H - L,W
H L L H - W
H H L H - W
L H L H - L,L,W
L H L L - L,W
L L L L - W
H L H L - L,L,L,W
H L H H - L,W
H H H L - W
H L L H - W
H H H L - W
L H L L - L,L,W
L H L H - L,W
L H H H - W
L L H L - W
L L L H - W
H H L H - L,L,L,L
H L L H - L,W (6th step)
L L L H - L,L,W
H L L L - W
L H H H - W
H L H L - W
H L H H - L,L,W
L H L H - L,L,L,L*
L H L L - L,L,L,L*
H H H H - L,W (10th step)
H H L H - L,W
H H H L - W
L L H H - L,L,L,W
L L H H - L,L,W
H L L L - L,W
H H L L - L,L,L,L
L L H L - L,W (6th step)
H L L H - W
H L H L - L,W
H H L H - W
L H H H - L,L,W
H H L H - W
H H H L - L,W
H L H L - W
H L L H - W
L H H H - L,L,W
L L H L - L,W
L L H H - W
L H H H - W
H L H L - L,W
H L H L - L,L,W
L L L L - L,W
H H H H - W
L H L H - W
L L H H - L,L,W
L H L L - W
H L L H - L,W
L H H H - W
H L H L - W
H L L H - L,L,L,W
L H L H - L,L,L,L
H L L H - W (5th step)
L L H L - W
H L H L - W
H L L H - L,W
L L H L - L,W
L H L H - L,L,W
H L L H - L,W
L L L L - W
H H H L - W
H L L H - L,W
L H L L - L,W
The variable chains of same results in each column actually help this approach.
There are MANY wins (224) coming on the 1st to 4th step of the progression. In other words a win
obtained on each of 224 lines! (896 of the 992 in-play numbers)
There were 5 wins at the 5th step; 3 wins at the 6th step; 1 win at the 7th step; 1 win at the 10th
step and 1 win gained at the 11th step.
Maybe with some rules and a different progression (e.g. GLC's) and maybe a stop rule this could be
good and pay dividends?
There may be also some merit in playing only after LL or LW for instance as Zer0Blue often
suggests - although you can miss out on additional first column wins doing that...
eg: play after L,L,L,L or L,L,L,W
Anyway, although not directly related with JL's idea - it is surely food for thought? :)
A.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Jul 11, 12:32 PM 2011
Yes Vundarosa, I'm beginning to think we already had it with MV5. I mean I ve played 450 games now and only lost three times.
And as you said even Random.org couldnt defeat MV5 over that 1,000 spin sample.
--------------
John, I'm playing the 3 ECs at the same time, they all perform well --and with a single BR given the strike rate-- I'm up by 250u, so when i eventually get a loss i'll be way ahead to be bothered by it. Started with a low investment and managed to double my BR twice...i would be playing with a higher unit value had i not busted on other systems... :-[
vundarosa
Quote from: atlantis on Jul 11, 02:03 PM 2011
This might be interesting to some.
Tracked 2 lines then looked at last TWO vertical results in each column.
If the results were different I then bet for the CHOP to continue...
If the results were the same then I bet for the STREAK to continue...
STOP AT A WINNER!
...
;-)
That is it dear Atlantis. I know we have talked about this some weeks ago... It is very cool to apply it here also.
as for LW strategy it seems essential.
Cheers
Zer0Blue
Hi Atlantis,
Those amounts of wins within 4 for an EC are incredible. I share your excitement with this. Perhaps separate testing needs doing on a different thread so as not to disrupt this one too much from the original.
Cheers
BW
Quote from: vundarosa on Jul 11, 02:06 PM 2011
--------------
John, I'm playing the 3 ECs at the same time, they all perform well --and with a single BR given the strike rate-- I'm up by 250u, so when I eventually get a loss i'll be way ahead to be bothered by it. Started with a low investment and managed to double my BR twice...i would be playing with a higher unit value had I not busted on other systems... :-[
vundarosa
Yes I play ODD AND EVEN and HIGH AND LOW. So between you me and Post. I think its clear MV5 really is THE ONE. The problem now is I have let this one go. And its openned pandoras box, even Superman is testing LoL.
All is not lost though. I am seriously looking at forging the MATRIX VERTICAL ZONE. There are so many hits between 5---8. It is worth its own Method. Atlantis, you did us all a favour yesterday. And confirmed with me certainly that THE QUAD rules the matrix format. Many thanks.
Quote from: buffalowizard on Jul 11, 02:53 PM 2011
Hi Atlantis,
Those amounts of wins within 4 for an EC are incredible. I share your excitement with this. Perhaps separate testing needs doing on a different thread so as not to disrupt this one too much from the original.
BW
I second the thought - new thread definitely called for. Just ran with a grand marti (1,3,7,15,31,63). Only lost at 4th level 1 time - think that might be a great stop point with 26 units at risk. I went +89 before losing my 26 the first time. Very cool idea. Also, I played continuously without stopping when I had a win in the row of 4.
Quote from: Colbster on Jul 11, 03:12 PM 2011
I second the thought - new thread definitely called for. Just ran with a grand marti (1,3,7,15,31,63). Only lost at 4th level 1 time - think that might be a great stop point with 26 units at risk. I went +89 before losing my 26 the first time. Very cool idea. Also, I played continuously without stopping when I had a win in the row of 4.
That's a great shout colbster,
I like that progression...and if further testing proves that 4 levels are strong enough, then the odd 26 unit loss would be surmountable with this more aggressive progression.
Quote
Atlantis, you did us all a favour yesterday. And confirmed with me certainly that THE QUAD rules the matrix format.
Hi John,
Maybe with MV5 using a matrix 4 then MV6 should use a matrix 5? I dunno. But if it made them the same then obviously you would continue with MV5 as you get your bets sooner + you already have solid proof for that method... I'm still seeing long strings of EC in columns while checking out matrix grid of 5 (5 cols) so whether makes any difference using MV6 is debatable...?
Thanks,
Atlantis.
Quote from: buffalowizard on Jul 11, 02:53 PM 2011
Those amounts of wins within 4 for an EC are incredible. I share your excitement with this. Perhaps separate testing needs doing on a different thread so as not to disrupt this one too much from the original.
Hi Buffalowizard. Ok I will initiate new thread with caption: "Matrix TrendGrabber" :)
A.
Quote from: atlantis on Jul 11, 04:07 PM 2011
Hi John,
Maybe with MV5 using a matrix 4 then MV6 should use a matrix 5? I dunno. But if it made them the same then obviously you would continue with MV5 as you get your bets sooner + you already have solid proof for that method... I'm still seeing long strings of EC in columns while checking out matrix grid of 5 (5 cols) so whether makes any difference using MV6 is debatable...?
Thanks,
Atlantis.
Yes Atlantis, I was trying to fix something that wasn't broken. I think we have to accept there is no such thing as a method that NEVER LOSES within a functional and affordable format. There are some that have awesome strikerate potential like MV5 and CODE 4. But they will bust a progression from time to time. We must accept this.
At the end of the day our POWERBASE (BANKROLL) is our life source as players. the more powerful it is, coupled with a solid mindset. The more invincible you become as a player. Minor setbacks are a part of what we buy into as players. But ultimately we are ever moving forward.
Quote from: buffalowizard on Jul 11, 03:17 PM 2011
That's a great shout colbster,
I like that progression...and if further testing proves that 4 levels are strong enough, then the odd 26 unit loss would be surmountable with this more aggressive progression.
Do I understand this correctly? what kind of minimums are you guys playing? .10? My tables here are minimum $10. 26 units at risk is $260 .
cd
Quote from: clothdog on Jul 11, 06:00 PM 2011
Do I understand this correctly? what kind of minimums are you guys playing? .10? My tables here are minimum $10. 26 units at risk is $260 .
cd
Hi CD
Minimum in a BM casino here for me is .25
Online you can go .10
Quote from: Johnlegend on Jul 11, 04:56 PM 2011
Yes Atlantis, I was trying to fix something that wasn't broken. I think we have to accept there is no such thing as a method that NEVER LOSES within a functional and affordable format. There are some that have awesome strikerate potential like MV5 and CODE 4. But they will bust a progression from time to time. We must accept this.
At the end of the day our POWERBASE (BANKROLL) is our life source as players. the more powerful it is, coupled with a solid mindset. The more invincible you become as a player. Minor setbacks are a part of what we buy into as players. But ultimately we are ever moving forward.
I like the way you face it John Lucky Legend. ;-)
Code 4 has incredible odds 80 / 1
as for Matrix RAndom tamed the odds are different - 31 / 1 (playing against 6 in a row)
In my opinion it is all the same principle. We should work on the mm instead.
The more efficient form of playing this kind of pattern betting is to bet against two complete losses in a row i think i said this before....
also we should change the perspective to the law of series.
have you seen 4 or five series of six or more in a row?
If we really want to evolve this is a suggested path. and it is for free. nice team we got here..
Zer0blue
Quote from: atlantis on Jul 11, 04:16 PM 2011
Hi Buffalowizard. Ok I will initiate new thread with caption: "Matrix TrendGrabber" :)
A.
---------------
"Matrix TrendGrabber"
Where is it?! ???
vundarosa
Quote from: vundarosa on Jul 12, 06:01 AM 2011
"Matrix TrendGrabber"
Where is it?! ???
link:://rouletteforum.cc/testing-zone/matrix-trendgrabber/ (link:://rouletteforum.cc/testing-zone/matrix-trendgrabber/)
BTW, vunderosa are you playing MATRIX V5 on H/L and O/E against quads or five pointers forming? (or both)
JL plays against five pointers now without a trigger. 1-2-4-8-16-32
A.
Quote from: atlantis on Jul 12, 07:10 AM 2011
link:://rouletteforum.cc/testing-zone/matrix-trendgrabber/ (link:://rouletteforum.cc/testing-zone/matrix-trendgrabber/)
by the way, vunderosa are you playing MATRIX V5 on H/L and O/E against quads or five pointers forming? (or both)
JL plays against five pointers now without a trigger. 1-2-4-8-16-32
A.
-------------
Got it!, thx
i'm playing against quads forming, no trigger and with 1-2-4-8-16.
vundarosa
So whats the general consensus that MV5 is actually/possibly better than MV6? Playing against 5 pointers?
Quote from: amk on Jul 11, 01:04 PM 2011
Sorry JohnLegend,
Just a quick brainstorm.... I know its off topic...
Perhaps you might take a look at your records, just a quick glance....
HLHL
HLHH
HHHL
HLHL
Here we see two quads forming alongside each other, this is the trigger, now start the six step progression that two 7 pointers don't form next to each other..... 6 pointers could perhaps also be played against.....
If there is something to this it could be incorporated into MV6 while playing?
Does anybody have any insights into this.....
I think this whole thing is getting out of control because there are too many scenarios. It's still all random with no guarantees. I hope pilot stopped chewing his nails.
CD
Quote from: amk on Jul 12, 03:55 PM 2011
Does anybody have any insights into this.....
--------------------
dunno, to have 12 H's is not that uncommon....
vundarosa
still untamed..except for JL :-\
Quote from: seykid31 on Jul 13, 02:01 AM 2011
still untamed..except for JL :-\
-----------------
Check the MV5 Hi Lo...from what came out of it, i'm now playing with a unit value that is 8 times higher than what i was playing before
vundarosa
Quote from: vundarosa on Jul 13, 05:30 AM 2011
-----------------
Check the MV5 Hi Lo...from what came out of it, i'm now playing with a unit value that is 8 times higher than what I was playing before
vundarosa
So you feel comfortable with this.You are set for big :thumbsup:
How are you doing at the casino with this Pilot? Seems like everyone else abandoned it.
CD
Clothdog, thanks a lot for your interest on my opinion....
I am done with all these matrix things. I tested everything on real casino, nobody will wait three hours to play one time where you are not even sure to win. And the propgression are complete killers.
Members of our community saying that you have to wait and be quiet and peaceful, never put their feet in a real casino.
It's good perhaps for people playing in front of their computers against a software made for them to loose ("live" casinos are the same scam) but not for real gamblers.
Quote from: thepilot on Jul 15, 02:23 AM 2011
Clothdog, thanks a lot for your interest on my opinion....
I am done with all these matrix things. I tested everything on real casino, nobody will wait three hours to play one time where you are not even sure to win. And the propgression are complete killers.
Members of our community saying that you have to wait and be quiet and peaceful, never put their feet in a real casino.
It's good perhaps for people playing in front of their computers against a software made for them to lose ("live" casinos are the same scam) but not for real gamblers.
-------------
lol,
Ok if you're really want to make and unbiased assessment on "all these matrix things" play against quads forming vertically, track all 3 ECs, bet all ECs. Report back if you go more than 20 spins without a trigger to bet and if you lose your bet more than 5 times on the same EC... (you surely can lose but let’s see how long you go between losses)
all the best
vundarosa
Hello guys! I'm new here, but not new on roulette forums in general.. WEll, firstly I'd like to thank John very much for all his works and researches, he did a lot for the forum. I will test this system and I think I have understood. Just I have few questions guys: firstly what is a quad? (I read it often but I don't know what it means). Second: on which casino do you play it? On live Casino that I use maximum bet is 10 times the minimum.. so, how can I use it with martingale progression?
Quote from: master1986 on Jul 15, 06:02 AM 2011
Hello guys! I'm new here, but not new on roulette forums in general.. WEll, firstly I'd like to thank John very much for all his works and researches, he did a lot for the forum. I will test this system and I think I have understood. Just I have few questions guys: firstly what is a quad? (I read it often but I don't know what it means). Second: on which casino do you play it? On live Casino that I use maximum bet is 10 times the minimum.. so, how can I use it with martingale progression?
------------
@master,
welcome to the forum
this thread is was started by JL to introduce the playing against 6 of the same EC being vertically aligned under each other on a 4 wide matrix...so, no quad should be the concern here. My reference to quads was to answer Pilot on his remark about the matrix concepts in general.
ok, as for your questions, this is how a quad looks like
H L H L H H L L L H H L L H L L <----here 4 Ls Does your casino have the option to play at the same table but with different table limits? If so, you could start your prog. in a lower limit option and switch to a higher limit option when needed...Just make sure you switch in time for your next bet.
all the best
vundarosa
Quote from: vundarosa on Jul 15, 06:22 AM 2011
------------
@master,
welcome to the forum
this thread is was started by JL to introduce the playing against 6 of the same EC being vertically aligned under each other on a 4 wide matrix...so, no quad should be the concern here. My reference to quads was to answer Pilot on his remark about the matrix concepts in general.
ok, as for your questions, this is how a quad looks like
H L H L
H H L L
L H H L
L H L L <----here 4 Ls
Does your casino have the option to play at the same table but with different table limits? If so, you could start your prog. in a lower limit option and switch to a higher limit option when needed...Just make sure you switch in time for your next bet.
all the best
vundarosa
Thank you very much vundarosa for your quick answer!!! So a quad is a group of 4 numbers (let's say horizontally if watching the matrix).
And on this system we should consider vertical formations, so no quads ;)
I will see about limits of casino, you gave a good idea and probably I understood how to do.
How are your tests on the system, man?
Quote from: master1986 on Jul 15, 06:33 AM 2011
Thank you very much vundarosa for your quick answer!!! So a quad is a group of 4 numbers (let's say horizontally if watching the matrix).
And on this system we should consider vertical formations, so no quads ;)
I will see about limits of casino, you gave a good idea and probably I understood how to do.
How are your tests on the system, man?
----------
Master, a quad is 4 of the same EC aligned
vertically under each other. In this system, Matrix Vertical 6 (RANDOM TAMED), we are playing against the formation of 6 of the same ECs aligned
vertically under each other...so if you have one group, say of 5Ls or 5Hs, you'd bet that it doesn't become 6Ls or 6Hs vertically under each other....if they do, you wait for another group of 5Ls or 6Hs and bet the same, that they don't become 6Ls or 6Hs...and so forth
vundarosa
vundarosa
Ah ok vundarosa thank you again! I understood how to play this system, just misunderstood what quad means. But now it's clear man! ;) I'll test on my casino and let you know.
Quote from: master1986 on Jul 15, 06:02 AM 2011
Hello guys! I'm new here, but not new on roulette forums in general.. WEll, firstly I'd like to thank John very much for all his works and researches, he did a lot for the forum. I will test this system and I think I have understood. Just I have few questions guys: firstly what is a quad? (I read it often but I don't know what it means). Second: on which casino do you play it? On live Casino that I use maximum bet is 10 times the minimum.. so, how can I use it with martingale progression?
Master1986 thankyou for your kind words. I can only try.
To Pilot and others who can't stomach the wait. Let me tell you something. And this is from my own experience. I used to be the player who had no patience. Wanted to be rich yesterday.
For three years I rushed and I lost. THOUSANDS. Then I learnt why the general concensus is this game is for fools. You can't win longterm they all cry.
Then I realized why I lost. And changed so much, I don't care if my session takes 4hrs. I'm leaving a WINNER. If you think its easy to beat this game its not. The biggest test to the player is PATIENCE/TIME.
Those who have it will be successful. When I had no patience, I had no money. I challenge you ALL to do the 100 day test. TRY AND WIN 5 UNITS EVERYDAY for 100 days. And you are THERE. You can't see it because you still think this should be easy money, its gambling afterall.
WRONG! Its another kind of business. And I will say it again, my session might take 4 hours. But I haven't left the casino without a profit for years. I know I'm going to win my session. Listen to what Vundarosa is saying. Because he has the right attitude, and all who do succeed.
I have a new method coming tonight. And another tomorrow, and that's it. Anyone who can't win with these. Take up slots or the lottery. I can't give you anything more certain.
And I can't give you the mindset either, you have to dig deep inside of yourself and find it.
Hi JL! I must say that I agree 100% with what you wrote. I was also a player with no patience, but fortunately I lost only few hundreds because I prefer to test one system good before starting to use real money. I've been playing roulette for only 2 years and yes in beginning I thought that it was possible to become rich over night.. I tried every kind of systems: even chances, lines, streets, dozens, straight numbers, splits... I won but it was not enough and I wanted to win more. Eheh.. I learnt my lesson in the end and I changed my attitude to this game. Better small profit but constant than a lot quickly and then miserably destroy your bankroll.
I had a little test on 75 spins only (i did during my break from work)
I won 3 times: first win at 3rd step and the other 2 wins both at 2nd step of progression.
I'll update with more tests ;)
master
Most aint interested because of patience
I find patience is low when unit size is low (or tired from work)
I've had to accept this so i'm playing a bank of 300 pounds and unit size of 2-3 pounds,, i make 1 or two units a day
Soon i'll be putting a large stack of saving on the table to continue full time , no work more time to wait
The legends way
Quote from: strato1985 on Jul 15, 06:09 PM 2011
Most ain't interested because of patience
I find patience is low when unit size is low (or tired from work)
I've had to accept this so i'm playing a bank of 300 pounds and unit size of 2-3 pounds,, I make 1 or two units a day
Soon i'll be putting a large stack of saving on the table to continue full time , no work more time to wait
The legends way
Exactly right! Low bankrolls means players are under pressure and might give up, change system or change stakes during a down turn. Also means that basic units are so low as to make the whole enterprise seem pointless. I always wonder abot people who complain about systems yielding only one or two units. One unit consistently is a lot! It could be $1 $ or $100.
Jeromin
Quote from: strato1985 on Jul 15, 06:09 PM 2011
Most ain't interested because of patience
I find patience is low when unit size is low (or tired from work)
I've had to accept this so i'm playing a bank of 300 pounds and unit size of 2-3 pounds,, I make 1 or two units a day
Soon i'll be putting a large stack of saving on the table to continue full time , no work more time to wait
The legends way
you sayin your going to quit your job to play this shit?!!
sound like we got a bad loser on our side..
If you lose qwerty thats your loss
My advice
learn English and try get yourself a decent job
Quote from: qwerty on Jul 29, 06:34 PM 2011
nothing wrong with my English son, I think YOU need to learn common sense and understand the concept of what fcuking random means!, did you not go to school?
You clearly dont understannd anything. Can you not reply without swearing? Seems very difficult for you. Time to grow up bud. :yawn:
Quote from: qwerty on Jul 29, 06:34 PM 2011
nothing wrong with my English son, I think YOU need to learn common sense and understand the concept of what fcuking random means!, did you not go to school?
We know what random means, why so aggressive? The thing is this, random can be as all over the place as it likes. But put it in a MATRIX and you start to see its limits.
The people who whinge oh but its all luck, you can't beat this game in the long term. Are those who try to play the layout or even worse straight up on the inside. Then, when a number they thought WAS DUE in a certain number of spins goes into a deep sleep.
They get destroyed, get a pesimistic attitude, and come on a forum like this and say anyone who is beating this game is on drugs or dellusional. And that's where your mindset is at right now QWERTY.
You need to calm down and learn a fresh approach. Then you will SEE FOR YOURSELF, and lose the sour grapes attitude.
well said JL attitudes like that do not belong here hope the mods take note
tom
Comments such as qwerty's only confirm to us that our approach to the game is the right one..............
Quote from: Johnlegend on Jul 30, 07:09 AM 2011
We know what random means, why so aggressive? The thing is this, random can be as all over the place as it likes. But put it in a MATRIX and you start to see its limits.
The people who whinge oh but its all luck, you can't beat this game in the long term. Are those who try to play the layout or even worse straight up on the inside. Then, when a number they thought WAS DUE in a certain number of spins goes into a deep sleep.
They get destroyed, get a pesimistic attitude, and come on a forum like this and say anyone who is beating this game is on drugs or dellusional. And that's where your mindset is at right now QWERTY.
You need to calm down and learn a fresh approach. Then you will SEE FOR YOURSELF, and lose the sour grapes attitude.
LoL your in a fantasy world sunshine roulette can not be beaten do you think casinos would of allowed it if it were? rnd has no limits and this "matrix" is just a recording of past events that mean nothing towards the future, are you a millionare thought it yet? I bet your not, LoL I would put a BIG bet on that one!
Quote from: qwerty on Jul 31, 11:39 AM 2011
LoL your in a fantasy world sunshine roulette can not be beaten do you think casinos would of allowed it if it were? rnd has no limits and this "matrix" is just a recording of past events that mean nothing towards the future, are you a millionare thought it yet? I bet your not, LoL I would put a BIG bet on that one!
querty why dont you take up bowling, your negative attitude sucks ,what you say is nothing we have not heard before so lose the the attidude man .moderators do something to this negativity.
Quote from: warrior on Jul 31, 01:18 PM 2011
querty why don't you take up bowling, your negative attitude sucks ,what you say is nothing we have not heard before so lose the the attidude man .moderators do something to this negativity.
Read all his posts, he's just a blatant wind-up-merchant trying to get some attention.
Some people eh?
I vote that from now on every post from querty is TOTALLY IGNORED
Quote from: warrior on Jul 31, 01:18 PM 2011
querty why don't you take up bowling, your negative attitude sucks ,what you say is nothing we have not heard before so lose the the attidude man .moderators do something to this negativity.
are you saying only negative people bowl, but your a real winner if you gamble :-\
Quote from: Johnlegend on Jul 30, 07:09 AM 2011
We know what random means, why so aggressive? The thing is this, random can be as all over the place as it likes. But put it in a MATRIX and you start to see its limits.
The people who whinge oh but its all luck, you can't beat this game in the long term. Are those who try to play the layout or even worse straight up on the inside. Then, when a number they thought WAS DUE in a certain number of spins goes into a deep sleep.
They get destroyed, get a pesimistic attitude, and come on a forum like this and say anyone who is beating this game is on drugs or dellusional. And that's where your mindset is at right now QWERTY.
You need to calm down and learn a fresh approach. Then you will SEE FOR YOURSELF, and lose the sour grapes attitude.
because i was being insulted
Quote from: buffalowizard on Jul 31, 02:07 PM 2011
Read all his posts, he's just a blatant wind-up-merchant trying to get some attention.
Some people eh?
i dont think you have read all my posts!
Quote from: qwerty on Jul 31, 03:46 PM 2011
are you saying only negative people bowl, but your a real winner if you gamble :-\
if you don't like what's on here take up bowling you unintelligent!take up bowling take up bowling take up bowling take up bowling ,man i was on a streak just made a few thousand I guess I'm a winner.
@qwerty (or past poster as I like to say).....I just deleted a couple of your posts (not all).
We ALREADY know your view, we got it. Roulette sucks and you cant win blah blah blah, we got it. It is someones RIGHT, if they want to post methods and they get pumped up about roulette. It does NOT harm you if we get excited a bit.
Ken
oh my long time i have not been to the forum lots of changes i hope for good...and new methods to test..why this qwerty -squirty talking BS...SOME PEOPLE ARE BORN LOSERS AT GAMBLING TAKE IT AND START LIVE YOUR LIFE ,get some lesons in knitting or gardening,maybe you will be good there :thumbsup:
"qwerty -squirty talking BS...SOME PEOPLE ARE BORN LOSERS AT GAMBLING" >>> Come on man, I'm trying to keep it civil here. Help me out.
Ken
Quote from: POUNDMAKER on Jul 31, 03:02 PM 2011
I vote that from now on every post from querty is TOTALLY IGNORED
........or
deleted. Scratch that, I mean "Moderated"
Hello JohnLegend,
Feels good to be back on this thread..........
How often have you seen two 5 pointers form side by side, with this I mean in the same 4 wide matrix?....
L L H L
L H L L
L L H L
L H L L
L H L L
How often have you seen three quads forming side by side (they do not have to be directly next to each other)..........
L L H L
L H H L
L H H L
L L H L
The trick to this method is waiting until you see two doubles L H or three doubles L H H
L H L H H
Either way it is a 63 unit bet...............