Alternative Matrix

[GLC]

For sure the biggest advantage of being able to win flat betting is that you don't need a huge number of small units to cover the progression.
I have access to an airball machine that has a maximum bet on 2:1 of $25.  Flat betting I could bet $12.50 on each dozen and still be able to win a reasonable amount with the less cautious method.  Maybe 5 or 6 units every 1-2 hours, as Flat says it would cover smokes and bread.  Since I don't smoke anymore, it would cover wine and steak.

In my situation, I have a 100 unit spread from 25 cents to 25 dollars.  As long as I keep my progression under 50 units on each dozen, I could play a fairly aggressive game, but I would have to win quite few units to buy wine and steaks.  A solid flat bet is by far the better scenario.

Thanks,

G

[atlantis]

Hi GLC,

Result of another session of real numbers (german casino) played with the ONE trigger.
Progression: Using up 1u on a loss and back to 1u if level or ahead using ONE bank.


232
132
121--Trigger 3-3-2; Trigger 2-2-1
123--Trigger 1-1-1
211
313
132--W1@1-1-3 =+1
333
231
322--L2@3-3-2 (incr to 2u) =-1
331
311--W2@3-3-3 (decr to 1u) =+1
321--W1@1-1-1 =+2
323
123--W1@3-3-1 ; W1@2-2-2 =+4
122--W1@3-3-2 =+5
223
131--W1@2-2-3 =+6
122
232--W1@1-1-2 =+7
123--L2@2-2-3 (incr to 2u) =+5
223
323--W2@2-2-2 (decr to 1u) =+7
323
332--W1@3-3-3 =+8
333
113--W1@3-3-1 =+9
222--W1@3-3-2 =+10


+10 in 84 spins.
9 won on 1st bet.
2 won on 2nd bet.

Highest bet 2-2 (twice)

This is an excellent result!

A.

[atlantis]

Just clearing up any misunderstanding of how I'm playing the alternative matrix. When I get a qualifying trigger triple - or a winning or losing result triple such as:

1
1
2

I always use a pen or pencil and enclose the triple within a ring (circle, oval or ellipse) so it can be easily identified.

Any subsequent formations of my family of triples in the same column MUST NOT use elements from a previously identified (ringed) triple. That is to say, new doublet triggers must be unique and formed from 2 separate and individual dozen numbers and not made up from those above in an existing ringed treble...

Example:

2-1-3
2-1-1
1-3-2--Trigger 2-2-1 ; Trigger 1-1-3 (draw ring round vertical triggers 2-2-1 & 1-1-3)
1-1-3
1-2-3
1-1-3--W1@1-1-1 (separate formed triple) ; Trigger 3-3-3 (draw rings  round 1-1-1 & 3-3-3)

etc.. etc..

This helps avoid mistakes in identifying qualifiers and tracking.
The colored trips are the ones I would ring in pencil.

A.

[GLC]

A,

Still looks solid.

I just tested F_LAT_INO's spreadsheet from the Matrix Vertical Method reply #84.  It was a bear.

121 spins
57 wins
37 losses
-17 flat betting
+54 betting 1-1; 3-3; 9-9; 27-27 (no losses but bet 27-27 once)
+18 betting labouchere method  by was down 200 units at one   point and betting 60-60 highest bet.  Would be a little scary for real money.

Tested it using your method.

Ended even flat betting
+4 using your +1 on loss, level on win

Felt the easiest using the 4 step martingale for 2:1, but it always does until you finally hit that 1st loss, although so far I am up enough in the sessions I have played to weather a loss.

Still leaning your way, but will continue testing every way.

G

[atlantis]

Another easy way to try is to bet only after a vertical trigger triple:

TRIGGERS
========
1
1
1

2
2
2

or

3
3
3

I like it because it is simple and not too different to the original MATRIX30

Unlike MATRIX30 which waits for ANY doublet after ANY one of the three triple triggers; instead only play that a MATCHING doublet will not form another triple...
For example if you get a vertical trigger 2-2-2 then next time you get vertical 2-2 (matching doublet) play against the treble forming.
WIN or LOSE you must wait for the next vertical triple 2-2-2 to form before you can again bet on 2-2 not forming a triple.

Example using some previous numbers:

232
132
121
123--Trigger 1-1-1
211
313
132--W1@1-1-3  [RESET TRIGGER 1's]
333
231
322
331
311--Trigger 3-3-3
321--Trigger 1-1-1
323
123--W1@3-3-1 [RESET TRIGGER 3's] ; Trigger 2-2-2
122
223--W1@1-1-2 [RESET TRIGGER 1's]
131--W1@2-2-3 [RESET TRIGGER 2's]
122
232
123
223
323--Trigger 3-3-3
323--Trigger 2-2-2
332--W1@3-3-2 [RESET TRIGGER 3's]
333--Trigger 3-3-3
113--W1@3-3-1 [RESET TRIGGER 3's]
222

+6u
All 6 bets won on first step.

A.

[GLC]

A,

I think this is becoming too much like JL/Scooby's Matrix Vertical 30.  No need to have 2 separate topics that are almost identical.

I prefer my way so as to get more bets in a shorter amount of time.  I don't think there's anything we can do to prevent a loss or at least a deep drawdown, which is basically the same thing since the units won coming out of a drawdown and the same units that would be profit if you had just taken a loss and started with a clean slate.

I will keep an eye on the other topic in case something interesting happens over there.

Thanks for your help.

LOL,

George

[atlantis]

A,

I think this is becoming too much like JL/Scooby's Matrix Vertical 30.  No need to have 2 separate topics that are almost identical.

I prefer my way so as to get more bets in a shorter amount of time.  I don't think there's anything we can do to prevent a loss or at least a deep drawdown, which is basically the same thing since the units won coming out of a drawdown and the same units that would be profit if you had just taken a loss and started with a clean slate.

I will keep an eye on the other topic in case something interesting happens over there.

Thanks for your help.

LoL,

George

OK George. I've moved over to the MATRIX30 thread with this latest idea to avoid confusion as I agree it is more of a tweak/variant to the original and probably a better home for it there, LoL!
I'm still interested in your "faster" way and I'll be checking your progress and findings.
It's still a great idea you have and I'm curious to see how it checks out.

A.

[GLC]

I considered starting a new topic with this idea, but decided to just make it a tweak to this system since it is so similar.

All we are going to do is change our bet from 2 dozens to 1 dozen. 
That means that we will be betting to complete a triple rather than block a triple from forming.

Our progression is going to be 1-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9etc...
The 1st 5 bets are a standard matingale for a 1 dozen bet.  On a loss we move 1 step to the right and on a win we start over with our 1st 1 unit bet.

If we lose 6 or more times in a row which means we will be betting 5 or more units, a win will not result in a new high level in our bankroll, therefore we will move 2 steps to the left of the number we won on.  If we were to win when betting 8 units, we would move 2 steps left and bet 6 units on our next bet.  Anytime we reach a new high bankroll we reset to the 1st 1 unit bet.

We are going to have numerous opportunity to bet.  We don't wait for a triple trigger, we only need double triggers.  We are going to use 5 triggers 1-1; 2-2; 3-3; 1-2; 3-2.
If we get 1-1 we bet for a triple 1-1-1.  If we get 2-2 we bet for a triple 2-2-2.  If we get 3-3 we bet for a triple 3-3-3.  If we get 1-2 we bet for a triple 1-2-3.  If we get 3-2 we bet for a triple 3-2-1.

Those are the only formations we bet on.  We are betting on 1 dozen instead of 2 dozens.

We have 5 ways for our triples to form.  3 verticals and 2 diagonals.

Example:

1-2-3
1-2-3
1-2-3


This example shows  a win in all 5 directions.  The 1-1-1, 3-3-3, 2-2-2 are the verticals.  The 1-2-3 and the 3-2-1 are the diagonals.

Anytime we get 2 dozens triggers, we bet for the 3rd dozen to hit.  If a position can be played for a vertical as well as a diagonal, the vertical takes precedence.  We could have this situation:

1-3-2
1-2-3

In this case, the vertical calls for a bet on the 1 dozen and the diagonal calls for a bet on the 2 dozen.  Since the vertical takes precedence, we will bet on the 1 dozen and pass on the 2 dozen.

Enjoy,

George

[GLC]

The following is a short session to show how I play this system.
To begin with, I want to identify the 5 rows we look at.

111
131
232

The rows will be identified as:

1 = left vertical.  In this case 1-1-2.
2 = middle vertical.  1-3-3.
3 = right vertical.  1-1-2.
4 = upper left diagonal.  1-3-2.
5 = upper right diagonal.  1-3-2.

When we're checking for bets, we just check in numerical order.
Remember, rows 1 & 3 take precedence over rows 4 & 5.
Our bet line is 1-1-2-3-4//5-6-7-8-9--> etc...  If we win on 1-1-2-3-4 we just reset to 1st 1 unit bet.  If we win on 5-6-7-8--> etc..., we move 2 bets to the left of the bet we won on and continue playing.  Once we reach a new high, we reset to 1st 1.  If we get to a point where moving 2 steps to the left after a win gives us a bet that if won will win more than 1 unit, we decrease our bet to a point where we win 1 or at most 2 units.

111    
131
232 Row 1 has 1-1 trigger but loses with a 2. 1 unit bet -1.  Row 2 has no trigger, No Bet.  Row 3 has 1-1 trigger but loses with a 2. 1 unit bet for -1.  Rows 4 & 5 have no trigger with 1-3 and 1-3, No Bet.  Accumulative W/L (-1-1=-2.)

131
232
212 Row 1 has 1-2 trigger but loses with a 2. 2 units bet -2.  Row 2 has 3-3 trigger but loses with a 1.  3 unit bet -3.  Row 3 has a 1-2 trigger but loses with a 2. 4 units bet -4.  Rows 4 & 5 have no trigger with 1-3 and 1-3, No Bet.  Accumulative W/L (-2-2-3-4=-11.)

232
212
223 Row 1 has 2-2 trigger and wins with a 2. 5 units bet +10.  So next bet will be our second 1 unit bet since a win will give us a +1 total.  Row 2 has no trigger, NB. Row 3 has 2-2 trigger but loses with a 3. 1 unit bet -1.  Rows 4&5 have no trigger with 1-2 & 1-2, NB.  Accumulative W/L (-11+10-1=-2.)

212
223
233 Row 1 has 2-2 trigger & wins with a 2.  2 units bet +4 (+4-2=+2).  New high so next bet is 1st 1 in bet line. Row 2 has 1-2 trigger and wins with a 3. 1 unit bet +2.  Row 3 has no trigger, NB.  Row 4 has 2-2 trigger, loses with a 3. 1 unit bet -1. Row 5 has 2-2 trigger but no bet because row 1's bet takes precedence, NB.  Accumulative W/L (-2+4+2-1=+3.)

223
233
123 Row 1 has 2-2 trigger but loses with a 1. 1 unit bet -1.  Row 2 NB. Row 3 has 3-3 trigger, wins with a 3. 2 units bet +4. Row 4 NB. Row 5 has 3-3 trigger but NB because of row 1's precedence.  Accumulative W/L +6. (+3-1+4=+6)

233
123
322 Row 1 NB. Row 2 NB. Row 3 has 3-3 trigger. Loses with a 2. 1 unit bet -1. Row 4 has 2-2 trigger but No Bet because row 3 takes precedence.  Row 5 NB.  Accumulative W/L (+6-1=+5.)

We just continue in this fashion.

This is just a suggested way to play.  It seems very safe.  Occasionally you can get some hairy draw downs (-64), but so far it has always pulled out quickly.

If you wanted, you could play each trigger with a separate bank.

You could also play the more conservative penthouse bet line.
1-1-2-2-3-3-4-4-5-5-6-6-7-7-8-8-9-9--> etc...
Move 1 step right after each loss and move 2 steps left after each win.  This keeps your bets smaller but also keeps your wins smaller.

You can always add more steps for a more conservative, grinding type system such as 1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-3-3-3-3-4-4-4-4-5-5-5-5-6-6-6-6--> etc...  Same as above, 1 to right on loss, 2 to left on win.

As with any progression bet method, you should set a  win target and stop-loss.

My philosophy is to set a high stop-loss and moderate win target.  The reason is that the higher your stop-loss, the less likely you will reach it before you have a chance to win some of the casino's chips.  

I recommend a stop-loss of 300 units.  To give yourself an excellent chance of staying ahead in this system, you should have a total of 3 of these 300 unit banks or 900 units.

Before playing with real money, test thoroughly so that you know what to expect.  Be convinced in your own mind regarding the risks involved in playing this or any roulette system.

George

[GLC]

I believe that the Alternative Matrix System using a simple Labouchere bet progression method for 2:1 payoff bets (Dozens or Columns) is an excellent system.  I will continue to test it and post results until it proves me wrong.  One losing session does not prove me wrong.  As long as I stay in a winning position, I am still right.

The bet selection method has been described above.  It can be played with either the method I use or for fewer bets, and maybe safer bets, you can use Atlantis' method.  Neither method is the correct method.  Neither method, although it's very early in the testing stage, has had a losing session.

It hasn't been determined absolutely that it can win with a flatbet, but I feel relatively certain that it will win with the Labouchere or cancelation method.

Labourchere Betting Method for Dozens/Columns:

Many of you will already be familiar with this method.  The most common use is on Even Chance bets, but it can also be used with dozens very effectively.

A simple example:

Begin by writing down a 1.  This is what we will win for each attack.  When we have cleared all the numbers in our bet line, this 1 is what we will be ahead by.  As with any labby, we will be betting the sum of the first and the last number in our bet line.  So, to begin with, we bet 1 unit on both dozens.  If we win, we have won our 1 unit.  Attack over.  Start a new attack (or bet line) with 1 unit.  If we lose our 1st bet, we will write the number of units we bet and lost 2 times on the right end of our bet line.  Anytime we win, we will cross off the two end numbers that we added together to make up our bet.  The next bet will be the 2 new end numbers on our bet line.

Example:

1        Our first bet is 1 unit on both dozens.  If we lose our new bet line is:
111    Now we add the 1st and last numbers and get 2 so we bet 2 units on both dozens.  If lose:
11122  Now we bet 3 units on both dozens.  If we win:
112     Now we bet 3 units again on both dozens.  If we lose:
11233  Now we bet 4 units on both dozens.  If we win:
123    Now we bet 4 units again on both dozens.  If we win:
2         Now we bet 2 units on both dozens.  If we win we will have cleared our line and we will be ahead by +1 unit which ends this attack.  Start a new attack with 1 unit.

It's very simple.

We only use 1 bankroll.  I suggest at least 300 units to be safe.
A win target of 25-50 units is reasonable.  You decide.

Now I want to present a safety measure for the Labouchere bet method.  This was presented by the author in the book Monte Carlo Anecdotes for even chances.  We are just going to apply it to the dozens or columns.

We will now use multiple lines:

11
11
11

I have shown 3 lines, but in fact you can use any number of lines you like.  The more you use, the more of a grind it becomes.
We are going to play this bet method until we reach a win of +1 unit.
Once we are at a new high in our bankroll, we will start over with another 3 lines just like above.

We will now start with wagering the two outside numbers of the top line. Wagers won will still be crossed out, but any losses will now be added to the NEXT TWO LINES.

A won wager looks like this:

XX    
11
11

A lost wager looks like this:

11add2
1add2

Our 1st bet is 2 units on each dozen.

11
11
11

Let's say we lost on our first wager, so in fact we lost (2x) our 2 unit wager, or 4 units.
These units are now added to THE NEXT TWO ROWS of betting lines as follows:

11
11add2
11add2

This is our new line:

11
112
112

We now are wagering the outside numbers of our second line. Because we have added our losses to our betting lines, we will now be wagering $3 rather than $2 as we did in the last spin.

Result: Loss:  We lose again on the second spin. Just as before, these units are now added to THE NEXT TWO ROWS of betting lines:

11add3
112
112add3

Here is our new line:

113
112
1123

We are on our 3rd spin, thus we move down to our third betting line. We wager $4 on our two dozens.

Result: Win. We cross out the two numbers we wagered on our betting line.

113
112
X12X

Here is our new betting line for the 4th spin, having removed the wins from the previous spin:

113
112
12


We are on our 4th spin, thus we move back up to our first betting line. We will wager $4 on two dozens.

Result: Loss. Once again, these units are now added to THE NEXT TWO ROWS.

113
112add4
12add4


Here is our new betting line for the 5th spin:

113
1124
124

We are on our 5th spin thus we wager $5.

Result: Win

113
X12X
124

Here is our updated line for the 6th spin, with the removal of our won wager:

113
12
124

For spin 6 we wager 5 units again.

Result: Win.

113
12
X2X


Spin #7 (wager 4 units on each)

113
12
2

We just continue with this procedure until we reach a new high in our bankroll at which time we start over with:

11
11
11

As with the original Labouchere, if our numbers start getting too large, we can always divide and conquer to keep our bet sizes smaller.  This unfortunately, necessitates additional spins to finally clear the lines.

Play safely and win often.

George


Remember ,with my bet selection method we will be betting almost every spin after the first 15 -20 spins, so with a little good fortune, we will reach our win target rather quickly.

One other point I want to make is that your matrix is not limited to any size.  It can be 3 wide, 4 wide, 5 wide or whatever you like.   3 or 4 wide are a little easier to deal with and keep track of where you are for your bets.  There is also no limit to the number of lines downward you can go.  Keep adding lines until you reach your win target.

LoL,

George

[GLC]

I have been playing the Alternative Matrix playing both bet methods and betting differentially with some good results.

This style of play may not be for everyone since it does require good familiarity with the system and a pen and paper for calculations and keeping track of the matrix at the same time.

I will give it a test run on my airball machine to see if it can be done.  I only have 1 minute from when the ball is spun until "No more bets please" is called to make my bets.  Since the ball takes about 15-20 seconds to land, it only leave 40-45 seconds at best to calculate and place bets.

It keeps you on your toes.

G

[GLC]

I have come up with another twist on this method that has been winning very well and so far no losses.

It is based on our original idea of nine 2 dozen triggers.  What we do is track for 18 spins.  This gives us 6 lines of 3 dozens per line.  Now we start listing our 2 dozen triggers plus the next 4 dozens vertically below them.  In our original version, we listed our 2 trigger dozens and the next dozen below them.  We are now listing the next 4 dozens.  Originally we were dealing with triples, now we are dealing with sextuplets.  Continue to list these 6 dozen vertical lines until we get a 2 dozen trigger that's already listed and then we bet that the next 4 dozens that will make up the 6 dozen vertical line won't repeat.  Once we win, this new line becomes our next line for that 2 dozen trigger once all 6 new dozens have formed vertically below it.

All we are doing is betting that a 6 dozen vertical line won't repeat exactly the same once we see the 1st 2 trigger dozens.  We will be betting our 1-1, 3-3, 9-9, 27-27 progression against the 4 dozens after the 2 dozen trigger.

Here's an example:

211    Now we list our 1st 6 dozen line started with our 2-2 trigger = 2-2-1-3-3-3.  We can also list            
221     our 6 dozen line with our 1-2 trigger = 1-2-1-1-1-1 and 1-1 trigger = 1-1-1-3-2-2.
111    The next time we see 2-2, we begin betting that 1-3-3-3 won't form below it.
313
312    Right here is our 2-2 trigger
312
131    Here we bet 1-1 against the 1 dozen.  We lose because 1 hits.
233    Here we bet 3-3 against the 3 dozen.  We lose because 3 hits.
122    Here we bet 9-9 against the 3 dozen.  We win because 2 hits.
113    Now we have a new 6 dozen line with the 2-2 trigger, 2-2-1-3-2-3
123
221

This may appear to be complicated, but it's really not the difficult and it plays pretty sweet so far.

George