A must read for all the ppl that are searching for a CWB

[Juiced91]

Thank you Monaco thats what im saying it cant be called a flatbet anymore

[mr.ore]

To be exact, flat bet is of course a bet where you bet same amount on the same chance with same payout. But in roulette there are not only progressions in bet size, but also progressions in risk, so you can't say just betting same amount is flat bet.

If you bet 1 unit on even chance and in case you lose you bet 1 unit on dozen and so on, then while you don't increase bet size, it is still progression.

Just to make definition correct 

by the way if someone believes that he is the lucky one who will experience positive deviations, then why he should flat bet? He should go with positive progression.

[Juiced91]

Okay choose an even chance put 1 unit on it for every single spin, What is it?

[Blood Angel]

IMO a flat bet is a flat bet (one chip amount).. Simple as that. Anything else is a progression even if it is "staggered".

[Chrisbis]

thanks for the explanation Chrisbis, maybe I'm missing something, but..
 
is that not a positive progression? 

No.
Positive progression is to do some after each event.

stepped Flat is to do something after a series of bets.

ie. ... U start out Ur session with a 1unit flat bet, lets say for instance, ur betting as in my BisCending4, on 9 inside numbers.
Ur bet is 1 unit x 9 numbers =9
U flat bet this bet for 4 spins, since each number would return 36 x 1=36, and 9 divides just nicely into 36/4 times! (BTW 9 inside numbers = 1/4 of the wheel/table)
Now after those 4 spins, U are either down -36 units, evens or at best (if U hit on each and every spin, +108   (there are other finishing positions U can end up in too)

So if U are down -36units, U have a choice as to what to do.
Play the same 'hand' again, or 'STEP' up Ur flat bet to 2 units!

U see what I mean.
Thats a STEPPED flat bet.
Thats not quite Positive progression, because U did not progress Ur bet each time.

A Flat bet with Positive progression, would have been Bet 9 units first spin(1 unit x 9 inside numbers)...
if lost, then Positively progress, and now bet 18 units on the second spin (2 units x 9 inside numbers)...
If lost, then Positively progress again, and now bet 27 units on the third bet (3 units x 9 inside numbers)...
and so on.

U see the difference.

Of course, if U win, and reduce Ur Positive progression steps, U are in the world of Reverse Positive Progression.. (and Not Negative Progression)

That's my take on it!

 

& a negative one?

Yes, classically, if U progress every time U lose, just to cover that loss + the original intended profit, (ie. as in Classic Marty Progression), then U are indeed in the world of Negative Progression.

Negative Progression, can and does have steps in it too, if so desired, as in Grand Marty, where U will 'GROW' the expected profit return, instead of hoping and praying for the Original Profit !

[Chrisbis]

Okay choose an even chance put 1 unit on it for every single spin, What is it?

......a flat bet (no progression what so ever!).....not even a 'tad' George! lol

[monaco]

stepped Flat is to do something after a series of bets.

maybe we're just splitting hairs here, but thats the gr8 player progression isn't it? flatbet for x amount of spins & then after seeing where you are, raise or lower your flatbet amount for the next x amount of spins.

Play the same 'hand' again, or 'STEP' up your flat bet to 2 units!

for me, any 'step' means its a progression, no matter when or where you do that step.

A Flat bet with Positive progression, would have been Bet 9 units first spin(1 unit x 9 inside numbers)...
if lost, then Positively progress, and now bet 18 units on the second spin (2 units x 9 inside numbers)...
If lost, then Positively progress again, and now bet 27 units on the third bet (3 units x 9 inside numbers)...
and so on.

that's a negative progression no?

[mr.ore]

Positive progression = you increase bet as you are winning, on losing revert to minimal bet.

Negative progression = you increase bet as you are losing, on (enough...) winning(s) revert to minimal bet.

Positive-negative progression = on winning increase bet somehow, on losing also increase.

Does not matter if there are several spins where the bet is flat, you can look at it that bet size is a real number but you have to round it down, up or nearest, but you increase it by some value on wins and decrease on loses, but never allow it go below one.

So if you play a positive progression on EC where you increase bet by 0.334 on winnings and a have a winning streak WWWWW then bet size is 1 1.334 1.668 2.002 2.336 2.670 and so on, but because you round down, you actually bet 1 1 1 2 2 2 and so on.

But just don't discuss this any more, it is pointless  .

[hanshuckebein]

let's say you play the doublestreets.

according to you're trigger you sometimes place one unit on just one dbl.street, one unit each on two dbl.streets ore one unit each on three dbl.streets.

would that count as flatbetting? 

cheers hans

[Chrisbis]

Yes that's Flat betting Hans, because U did not increase the value of the 1st D/street U bet on.

your just widening your hit opportunity.
Its Flat bet (as someone else says) till U change the value somehow! (one your first bet)

If U widen the bet, its still a Flat bet...............just more of them.

Think of it the same, if U didn't put those extra chips on your current Casino table, and instead went and put them on another Roulette wheel that happens to be spinning beside U!
Still a flat bet eh!

[hanshuckebein]

thanks chris 

[monaco]

a question on this thread was the possibility of a progression to maximise the potential of a relatively stable flatbet - 1 possibility is to combine progressions according to their usefulness at a certain time.

1 example might be to begin with a d'Alembert. To a certain point, this works well when the wins & losses are fairly even or the losses do not outstrip the wins for too long a continuous period. However, at a certain point, it just becomes a hole that only a sustained period of wins over losses can reverse, which of course you cannot rely on happening soon enough.

There is a point (I think it's somewhere between a 25 & 50 unit drawdown) where continuous play of a d'Alembert becomes counter-productive. You need to change.

There are different possibilities.

If you are in the middle of a losing streak, continuing to play a negative progression can make things worse - you could switch to a positive progression to at least steady the ship- maybe a parlay or Pluscoup (Oscars Grind). In itself, Oscars Grind can also just float around in a big hole though, so if you see signs of recovery, there's nothing to stop you switching back to a negative progression to bring it home..

let's say you play the doublestreets.

according to you're trigger you sometimes place one unit on just one dbl.street, one unit each on two dbl.streets ore one unit each on three dbl.streets.

would that count as flatbetting? 

cheers hans

Bet 1: 1 unit on a 5:1
Bet 2: 2 units on a 2:1
Bet 3: 3 units on a 1:1

not flatbetting in my book.

Having said that, lets not make a biggie out of it & i do agree with this -

But just don't discuss this any more, it is pointless  .

[6th-sense]

i know myself that a flat bet is betting the same amount on the bet selection of your choice of play.people are getting a little lost on the ec,s....you can make any ec bet with anything in the numbers of the table...or places on the table..
i know also for a fact that certain flat bet winning systems can,t be progressed on as you are chasing your losses its better to win a number of winning sessions against the losing sessions...you could easily lose all your profit chasing your tail..discipline is everything..the normal session is outlined at 100 spins which i think in itself is ok but a winning session is your expectancy to win so many units from spin 1 to spin 500...the profit unit reached is in effect your days work...boring but tedious.

[monaco]

i know myself that a flat bet is betting the same amount on the bet selection of your choice of play.people are getting a little lost on the ec,s....you can make any ec bet with anything in the numbers of the table...or places on the table..
i know also for a fact that certain flat bet winning systems can,t be progressed on as you are chasing your losses its better to win a number of winning sessions against the losing sessions...you could easily lose all your profit chasing your tail..discipline is everything..the normal session is outlined at 100 spins which i think in itself is ok but a winning session is your expectancy to win so many units from spin 1 to spin 500...the profit unit reached is in effect your days work...boring but tedious.

Cheers 6th-sense, reminds me of the first piece of advice i ever received on this forum - drop all negative progression, move in to flatbetting, limit your betting to a determined cycle.