What are the differences between RNG and the real wheel

[superman]

As the title says, I would like JL to answer as in the past he has been a real wheel player, when he first joined the forums he was totally against RNG roulette BUT now he has been challenging an RNG, albeit an unbiased RNG, by this I mean there is no casino who owns it, so cheating will not happen.

JL, in your opinion are your results any different than your past historical results from playing at real wheel casinos? has the RNG been tougher or the same as a real wheel.

Skakus, your opinion would also be welcome as you are still doing very well against the same RNG kindly provided by Bayes.

Sidenote: I will be deleting noise posts if and when they happen. The idea of this thread is to try and get a clear picture of any differences, if there are any that is.

[Ralph]

If the casinos are fair, it not at all any difference, pure random is just pure random.
Who do not agree can get sample spins, and try to find which is which, you will only succeed by luck, as you may make money in the game.

[Nickmsi]

 Hi Superman . . .


I think there is no difference between live spins and RNG.


Bayes challenged many members on the VLS forum to see if they could tell the difference and I as well as the rest failed the test.


I think numbers are numbers no matter how generated they all must follow proven mathematical theories.


For example, if you spin 5 numbers live and 5 numbers RNG, in both cases you will have 3 out of the 5 numbers in each group, ASCENDING or DECENDING.  (1, 16, 4, 2, --1,4,8 are Ascending and 16,4,2 are Descending.


Numbers are Numbers.  They are the same.


Nick

[F_LAT_INO]

----Except that you are watching the ball drop in the numbered pocket.....
     RNG you see nothing and aren't aware where its comming from,and
     it is only for these that haven't experienced real casino roulette play.
     RNG is not roulette and never will be.....30 years past ppl.real players
    would laugh with compare these two.....and we older still do.

[superman]

Thanks Nick, I agree with your description.

Flat, as I've stated before, to you and others, I chose RNG for the speed AND as its a computer algorithm that's sending the numbers to me I know a computer has to eventually follow certain paths/sequences/routines, a real wheel does not as it is real random, generated random was told how to generate random, get it?

RNG is the challenge, the roulette table is just an ideal place to place bets, we are not, well those of us who test extensivley, which you hate as it shows holes in methods very quickly, we are not really playing roulette, we are challenging an RNG.

You've had you say Flat, again, so let's just see if we can get proof from the players that there is no noticable difference, if I sent you a couple of files of results, would you risk telling us which are real and which are RNG, you must also be able to say how/why you can tell, if you can't don't worry, nobody else can either, so please Flat put up or ......

[superman]

Thanks ND but that's not of any value to the thread so I am removing it, if however you think you can spot the difference and state how/why, please say, but I doubt it as it's been tried on the old VLS as you know, an none of the pros could there either.

[superman]

Those of you who are following the JL Challenge, you have seen the image Bayes gave of what the Challenge tool looks like, it's not roulette in the great scheme of things, is it? its just a number tool that has roulette bets on it, the facility to increase the bet size, against the rng, not roulette. Roulette is a game with a physical wheel, ball and bloke to chuck it, RNG is just that, a random number generator.

[maestro]

that is right superman i have done Bayes chalenge even when you thik that spins have to be rng they are not..you cannot tell...but still think one can beat rng easier than live roulette...i know some people will say i am idiott but i do not care..

[superman]

but still think one can beat rng easier than live roulette

I tend to agree mate, thanks for the contribution.

[hanshuckebein]

maybe one way to find out wether there's any difference is to apply a wheel based bet selection approach on a large number of live spins and also on a large number of rng spins and then check if the results are the same or not. 

or to say it differently: if there's no difference between live wheels and rngs then wheel based bet selection methods are just an illusion, aren't they?

cheers

hans

[Skakus]

maybe one way to find out wether there's any difference is to apply a wheel based bet selection approach on a large number of live spins and also on a large number of rng spins and then check if the results are the same or not.

or to say it differently: if there's no difference between live wheels and rngs then wheel based bet selection methods are just an illusion, aren't they?

cheers

hans

This is something I was doing before taking up the Bayes RNG challenge. It is on hold for the moment but I will get back to it. I am 20400 spins into the 30000 x 2 spin test (60000 total).

From what I can see so far there could be a small but recognizable difference between the two forms of number generators (wheel & algorithm) but it is so minimal that it would not have much use in real play. Meaning a system designed for wheel sections or the like with these slight differences in mind might end up substantially less than 1% better off when played on a real wheel as opposed to an rng. Same for rng designed systems; they would be substantially less than 1% better off if played on rng and not real wheel. This figure is rising though so I must get through the whole test to know what the % really is. I don’t think it will ever reach 1% difference though.

Short answer for me is yes, under the microscope there will be a difference between real wheel and rng, but in practical terms for real game play, no difference detectable.


As for Bayes challenge, I hope it is not a weak and easily predictable rng because I’m kicking its ar*e, and I would like to kick all of their ar*ses, wheels too, with this EC Money system.


The notable difference is as f_lat_ino says. With the wheel you can see four yourself where the next payout is as it happens while an rng could spit out anything it wants and you'd be none the wiser. It all boils down to a matter of trust.

[catalyst]

i have checked over 32000 spins for my wheel based betting system. the bet characteristics and patterns are the same across all these: RNG, airball, real dealer. flatinos comments is only valid for the thrilling of the game as you can see the ball staring your eyes. but at the end results are same.

[amk]

Great thread,

I don't know catalyst.




Superman Quote (hello   )


"generated random was told how to generate random"


In the case of playing real RNG we cannot say that it is 100% trustworthy. Live online roulette could even be manipulated at certain points, but as JL explains you can stay under the radar.


In live play there is one element which changes routinely and is not a computer.....


Basically every time you play live casino roulette you are facing a different croupier. I think that most croupiers have not seen drastic fluctuations more then once, perhaps seen a dozen repeat 9 times, a line 5 times etc (are there any croupiers on the forum   ) It might even be a good idea to get the croupiers stats before we play on their wheel...?


With all this I mean to indicate that all croupiers will statistically throw the same ie very very few drastic fluctuations. In RNG testing it is guaranteed that you will always see them.


Keep in mind that I am not a real player. I do not play roulette yet, just forming my game plan.

[vundarosa]

After the fact, i tend to think ,"none"...i mean, if you are given a set of past spins there's no way to tell the difference....but if in a real wheel with a dealer (not airball) i think that even with the best trained dealers you could have some temporary bias due to his/her throwing rhythm, energy level or mood, etc. These could affect the results of the strategy you're playing at that specific time.......this also could have some bearing when testing with past live dealer spins when we know nothing about the background in which these spins were recorded.

vundarosa

[Ralph]

The result is random in both, so no difference there. But of course it is not the same in many other ways.  Go to a real casino or sitting i front of a computer is not the same experience.