Gimme *****FIVE*****

[Turner]

Sam asked “why do we think random has limits?” in JLs post, which is not worthy of ignoring as it is a good question

Having already been deleted from JLs  *****FIVE***** for penning the blasphemous “whos on 1st base”; a humourous attempt at the confusion in the explaination of “FIVE”, using the classic sketch by the 3 Stooges. I thought it was funny. John obviously didn’t.

Well its his ball, and if he wants to take it in…we don’t play football.

I thought I would try and make an attempt to write something useful instead of retorting in a childish way.

We have to get to the bottom of what we are saying when we quote  “dozens don’t repeat more than 15 times”. Random has a limit.

link:://vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=19441.0

A Dozen-1 example of what we are saying is: 1,2,4,4,7,2,9,11,12,5,1,12,8,7,5. This is the 1st Dozen repeating 15 times, and the next number will not be any of the above.

There is nothing magical about a Dozen. Its just a convenient bet selection on the layout.

A dozen is just a group of 12. There are nearly 2 Billion sets of 12 in 37. We only look at 6 of them.

This group of 12 isnt a Dozen in the bet layout sense but I will call
3,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,33,34,0 Group X.

So if we have 15 spins which are all from Group X, the next spin will not be from Group X.

Put like that….it now seems to adopt an air of the supernatural!

Back on Earth, the reality is the next number out has exactly the same probability as being in Group X as not being.

What else does it mean?

It means that the last 15 numbers will never have more than 3 repeats.

1,12,12,6,4,19,22,33,33,34,17,2,2,36,0 and the next number won't be from the 12 left...so the stats say.
Above is a group of 12 (0,1,2 4,6,12,17,19,22,33,34,36) that has repeated 15 times (1,12,12,6,4,19,22,33,33,34,17,2,2,36,0)

But we see this all the time on the casino marquee. 3 repeats in the last 15

I found this in some random.org file within a minute of looking manually.
25,6,13,33,33,31,11,29,35,24,8,4,24,18,13. This is a group of 12 (25,6,33,31,11,29,35,8,4,24,18,13) which has repeated 15 times .

But around 30 numbers later, I found this

26,5,31,34,22,24,4,24,31,5,33,30,10,32,6,10 so this is a group of 12 (26,34,22,4,24,31,5,33,30,32,6,10) which has hit 16 times.

And I didn’t have to wait long (the next number) to find:
26,5,31,34,22,24,4,24,31,5,33,30,10,32,6,10,22 which is a
group of 12 (26,34,4,24,31,5,33,30,32,6,10,22) which has hit 17 times

You may have to run 3 million spins (Poit/VLS) to find that a Doz/Col hits 15 times but you can probably find a 12-group that hits 17 times within 1 table download (240 spins) from Speilbank using your eye. The statement “Dozen limit is 15 hits” has been contradicted in 2 mins of looking at random numbers by eye.

So concentrating on the small picture, (a sample size of 0 .0000000001%) isn’t any proof of a limitation in random.

The big question is...do the stats above lead us to believe that 3 specific groups (Dozens) out of 1.8 Billion groups not showing for 4 spins then showing then not showing in a certain pattern has a limit? (i.e.****FIVE****)

No!

that's guessing that one set of results must mean something else without any proof or any  worthwhile testing.

Thoughts?

[Johnlegend]

Sam asked “why do we think random has limits?” in JLs post, which is not worthy of ignoring as it is a good question

Having already been deleted from JLs  *****FIVE***** for penning the blasphemous “whos on 1st base”; a humourous attempt at the confusion in the explaination of “FIVE”, using the classic sketch by the 3 Stooges. I thought it was funny. John obviously didn’t.

Well its his ball, and if he wants to take it in…we don’t play football.

I thought I would try and make an attempt to write something useful instead of retorting in a childish way.

We have to get to the bottom of what we are saying when we quote  “dozens don’t repeat more than 15 times”. Random has a limit.

link:://vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=19441.0

A Dozen-1 example of what we are saying is: 1,2,4,4,7,2,9,11,12,5,1,12,8,7,5. This is the 1st Dozen repeating 15 times, and the next number will not be any of the above.

There is nothing magical about a Dozen. Its just a convenient bet selection on the layout.

A dozen is just a group of 12. There are nearly 2 Billion sets of 12 in 37. We only look at 6 of them.

This group of 12 isnt a Dozen in the bet layout sense but I will call
3,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,33,34,0 Group X.

So if we have 15 spins which are all from Group X, the next spin will not be from Group X.

Put like that….it now seems to adopt an air of the supernatural!

Back on Earth, the reality is the next number out has exactly the same probability as being in Group X as not being.

What else does it mean?

It means that the last 15 numbers will never have more than 3 repeats.

1,12,12,6,4,19,22,33,33,34,17,2,2,36,0 and the next number won't be from the 12 left...so the stats say.
Above is a group of 12 (0,1,2 4,6,12,17,19,22,33,34,36) that has repeated 15 times (1,12,12,6,4,19,22,33,33,34,17,2,2,36,0)

But we see this all the time on the casino marquee. 3 repeats in the last 15

I found this in some random.org file within a minute of looking manually.
25,6,13,33,33,31,11,29,35,24,8,4,24,18,13. This is a group of 12 (25,6,33,31,11,29,35,8,4,24,18,13) which has repeated 15 times .

But around 30 numbers later, I found this

26,5,31,34,22,24,4,24,31,5,33,30,10,32,6,10 so this is a group of 12 (26,34,22,4,24,31,5,33,30,32,6,10) which has hit 16 times.

And I didn’t have to wait long (the next number) to find:
26,5,31,34,22,24,4,24,31,5,33,30,10,32,6,10,22 which is a
group of 12 (26,34,4,24,31,5,33,30,32,6,10,22) which has hit 17 times

You may have to run 3 million spins (Poit/VLS) to find that a Doz/Col hits 15 times but you can probably find a 12-group that hits 17 times within 1 table download (240 spins) from Speilbank using your eye. The statement “Dozen limit is 15 hits” has been contradicted in 2 mins of looking at random numbers by eye.

So concentrating on the small picture, (a sample size of 0 .0000000001%) isn’t any proof of a limitation in random.

The big question is...do the stats above lead us to believe that 3 specific groups (Dozens) out of 1.8 Billion groups not showing for 4 spins then showing then not showing in a certain pattern has a limit? (i.e.****FIVE****)

No!

that's guessing that one set of results must mean something else without any proof or any  worthwhile testing.

Thoughts?

Turner, when I suggest RANDOM has limits, Which I call VIRTUAL LIMITS. I wouldnt be foolish enough to claim they will NEVER be crossed. Oh NO! Only a true fool would make such a claim. What I am saying is this. If you can find something that happens so infrequently within realistic playing parameters. You have yourself a WINNING METHOD, Plain and simple.

FIVE is thus far proving to be this. And my next (and far more simple) developement of this 8 ON 1. Could be even stronger. For although in testing and playing for real FIVE has been taken to the border many times, LIVE and RNGs are not even challenging 8 ON 1. Maybe it is the strongest of all playable virtual limits I have yet found. Its certainly looking that way.

[Turner]

And I didn't delete you...notice.

By the way....what on earth is 8 to 1. Another system?

edit...

Ang on...I missed this
And my next (and far more simple) developement of this 8 ON 1

edit 2 (lol)

AND I WILL DELETE ANY DISSCENTERS AGAINST JL PERSONALLY.
Its about if patterns hit a limit or not.

[Johnlegend]

And I didn't delete you...notice.

By the way....what on earth is 8 to 1. Another system?

edit...

Ang on...I missed this
And my next (and far more simple) developement of this 8 ON 1

Yes its a new developement after observing something very interesting while studying past results for the ZONE. And now FIVE. Turner I only delete posts I feel are offensive or completely off topic. And of no benefit to the method the threads about. If you genuinely are interested in learning something. And are not rude and offensive towards me. I will never be towards you. I know some people don't like me on this forum.

That's life, I am not here to be liked. If people find some interest in what I bring great. If you think its tosh fair enough. Just let it be and move on.

[Turner]

well I dont like personal attacks....but you shouldnt take people attacking your idea as personal.
I edited my last post in the same theme.

[Johnlegend]

well I don't like personal attacks....but you shouldnt take people attacking your idea as personal.
I edited my last post in the same theme.

I don't, I expect resentment of my ideas. Its when/if you get personal with me, that's when I take offense. At the end of the day whether one person or one hundred people like or don't like my methods. I will be making money with them. This will hit home hard over the coming years. Because unlike some who say they win 3 grand a day. Or someother wild claims.

I am going to show how I have always played, and built my BR. Nothing fancy to start with. Only aiming for 1% compounded growth on overall BR per playing day. until 1% means something to a lot of people. I am going to show all I have talked about since I hit this forum. Discipline, mindset, patience, STAYING POWER (Notice I cap that one) Because the problem for too many people in this game is they can't stay with anything long enough.

That's why theres too many methods hitting this forum and dropping down after only a few weeks. You will never succeed without it. And you don't have to risk your morgage with horrendous drawdowns. Or play half your life away. No, you play and build at a steady CONTROLLED pace. Until like I said just 1% of your BR means something. 1,2,3,4,5 years from now. I will have proven to every sensible mnd who is interested. That I know how to beat this game.

[vundarosa]

Turner,

I agree with you here....i actually think you're preaching to the choir on this one as most members will surely agree as well.....but the quest (ion) is how often?! if we can find an event that is rare enough to make us profitable in a sensible time frame then we have a winning method in the long run.....
i for one don't want to sit 1 hr to win one unit specially if playing with low unit value....

vundarosa

[Turner]

Turner,

I agree with you here....i actually think you're preaching to the choir on this one as most members will surely agree as well.....but the quest (ion) is how often?! if we can find an event that is rare enough to make us profitable in a sensible time frame then we have a winning method in the long run.....
i for one don't want to sit 1 hr to win one unit specially if playing with low unit value....

vundarosa

Vunderosa
The point here though is being aware that dozens hitting 15 isnt a rare event. 17 or 18 hits are happening instantly all the time. Kind of trying to get away from the fabricated Casinos Dozen and seeing random generated 12's

[TwoCatSam]

Again, the problem I have with the FIVE is that after all that waiting and charting, you have exactly the same chance of winning as you did if you had bet dozen one and three right off the bat.  That will never change.

Now a new idea.

And then another.

And another.

Paint us all with the same brush for our name is Legion.

Sam

[Turner]

I don't, I expect resentment of my ideas. Its when/if you get personal with me, that's when I take offense. At the end of the day whether one person or one hundred people like or don't like my methods. I will be making money with them. This will hit home hard over the coming years. Because unlike some who say they win 3 grand a day. Or someother wild claims.

I am going to show how I have always played, and built my BR. Nothing fancy to start with. Only aiming for 1% compounded growth on overall BR per playing day. until 1% means something to a lot of people. I am going to show all I have talked about since I hit this forum. Discipline, mindset, patience, STAYING POWER (Notice I cap that one) Because the problem for too many people in this game is they can't stay with anything long enough.

That's why theres too many methods hitting this forum and dropping down after only a few weeks. You will never succeed without it. And you don't have to risk your morgage with horrendous drawdowns. Or play half your life away. No, you play and build at a steady CONTROLLED pace. Until like I said just 1% of your BR means something. 1,2,3,4,5 years from now. I will have proven to every sensible mnd who is interested. That I know how to beat this game.

John, you would make a great politician. You spend 1 % answering the question then 99% talking about your policies.
I meant that in the nicest possible way.

[TwoCatSam]

John, you would make a great politician.

I've asked if he was!

I mean that in the nicest way, too!

Really Nice Sam

[PGA]

Vunderosa
The point here though is being aware that dozens hitting 15 isnt a rare event. 17 or 18 hits are happening instantly all the time. Kind of trying to get away from the fabricated Casinos Dozen and seeing random generated 12's

Hi Turner,

I couldn`t agree with you more.  I have registered well over 20,000 spins from my local casino and I can attest to the fact that ``layout dozens`` and ``fabricated dozens`` had similar sleep rates.  I ran a rolling twelve sleeping numbers and lo and behold I was noticing similar number of spins as sleeping layout dozens.  Random has no limits in theory as random by definition is ``limitless`` as to the ``when``

Regards
Gerry     

[Robeenhuut]

John point is that in his testing he thinks that he found a pattern that repeats itself less that any other pattern in 4 2/3 chances bet like for example betting against any single dozen or column repeating. Although 1000+ games seems like a big number thats really not a big sample for such a heavy progression. In FIVE thread i posted results of around 2000 sessions played on RNG each consisting of around 600+ games betting against 4peats of single dozens or columns. All ended with at least one loss - i would say 10 cases of just one loss so a strike rate around 600+/1. Overall strike rate was around average expected. John stats are better - no loss in 1050 games.
But its not such a big difference. He reported that he has been taken to the limit in around 60 or 70 games already - few losses on a last bet and his strike rate would drop down significantly.
I sincerely hope that he is onto something but to me its still way too early to predict anything.
But maybe he will be able to maintain a constant above average winning rate.

[Skakus]

Static dozens, or 12 number societies are completely different to reverse engineered dozens or 12 number societies. If you can’t see that Turner then I should challenge you to a game of chess. 

  (my avatar is itching for a fight!)

For a static dozen to repeat 15 times it must do so unassisted from spin 1 whereas you are   conveniently adding to your reverse engineered dozen as you go.

It’s just not the same. 

[Turner]

Static dozens, or 12 number societies are completely different to reverse engineered dozens or 12 number societies. If you can’t see that Turner then I should challenge you to a game of chess. 

  (my avatar is itching for a fight!)

For a static dozen to repeat 15 times it must do so unassisted from spin 1 whereas you are   conveniently adding to your reverse engineered dozen as you go.

It’s just not the same. 

Firstly, I recognize your avatar. its a famous king from a set. The earliest chess set ever found or something. I've seen the image before.

I've not lifted a chess piece in anger for 18 months....but I would give it a try. Although i still read C.Hertens " Forcing Chess Moves" when I'm in the bath.

secondly...

Why is it just not the same? I wasn't conveniently adding anything. The numbers above were from random.org. i didn't spend nights by candlelight trying to find them. They were just there when I looked.
The examples I showed have got there unassisted from spin 1. Its just spin 1 was perhaps 12,000 spins ago. I just happened to look as they arrived.

that's my point. They are not rare. They are part of the structure happening instantly all the time.
We just notice the 3 consecutive 12's because the Casino wrote them on the green baize.

Its a bit like sitting on thee banks of your local river for 6 weeks and making a note that on average, a fish seems to jump clear of the water every 40 mins. So that's it then. Fish jump every 40 mins.

Collectivly in the world, over millions of rivers its one  every 0.00000001 seconds pehaps.

Now my heads hurting. I need to do something simple like watch Emmerdale.

Turner.