Clarifying issues

[Steve]

Some of the most ridiculous things are being said about me with regards to JL's recent banning. I'll clarify some issues and respond to some nonsense:

1. Fender was banned for many reasons, one of which was HIS SO-CALLED HOLY GRAIL SYSTEM WAS FAILING IN TESTS WHICH DAMAGED HIS CREDIBILITY, SO HE INVENTED A CHARACTER (THEPILOT) TO POST AND CLAIM HE WON A FORTUNE WITH A DIFFERENT AND BETTER VERSION OF JL'S SYSTEM. THIS FAKE CHARACTER USED 100% PROXIES TO HIDE HIS IP ADDRESS AND WAS OBVIOUSLY JL UNDER A FAKE NAME. ONCE HE MADE HIS CLAIMS OF HUGE WINNINGS, HE LEFT THE FORUM. Hmm. Shouldnt it be obvious even without IP checks, especially given that Fender has been doing this for YEARS under fake names on multiple forums?

Some people believed the lies. Some people saw JL for what he is. For example, Turner said:

like you...I really was completly stunned that 8 on one and *****FIVE**** was going tits up so some randomer (pilot) comes in promoting another JL system and everyone was believing it straight up. Then...surprise surprise.....JL is using pilots new method of pattern breaker and claiming its better.

I sound like Jonathan Creek here (British TV crime solver show) but in fear of the straw that broke the camels back for JL in admitting the last 2 ideas were failing and switching back to pattern breaker again, after he revisited it, he invented a stooge to come in and sing its praises ...completly out of the blue. When I say I can't believe people could be so gullable...I don't mean they didn't spot what i said above per se...(I work on "its a lie" and work up from there) but can't believe they just believed what pilot said in isolation....even if it didn't occur to them it was a JL scam and hustle.

remember...I said of Pilot announcing his exit... " of course he is...his work is done"

You'll have to get up much earlier than that to catch me out

What amazes me is some people still actually follow JL. I was contacted by a forum member here that said he lost almost everything by playing JL's systems. I even explained to Victor that real people are being harmed by Fender's lies. Fender has been doing this for YEARS. Leading people on claiming to have the method, then changing names when the truth is revealed. Even inventing fake characters to mislead more people. I give up on poeple who think I'm the bad guy for banning people like Fender, but I have a responsibility as admin to ban people like this. I only ban in extreme cases, and this is a clear example. It is a ban completely and solely because he is VERY BAD for the forum's integrity.



2. The running of ads at the other forum is because of an agreement between Victor and I. When I purchased VLS, he said he wouldnt create another forum. But he did. When I purchased this forum, we made a very clear agreement that what happened before would not happen again. And it did. He agreed to close the other forum. But then he even created another one, but it was with the condition that it run my ads. We had a simple agreement and I've only asked him to honor it. It is not about me "flexing muscle" as someone put it. It is a simple agreement and INTEGRITY to adhere to it.



3. Twocatsam, you said:

Anyway, "There's a sucker born every minute!" still holds water for me.  If they don't lose it with Steve, they'll invest with Thomas Grant and lose it there.

My players have won more with roulette than any other team or group. That is likely fact. If you really think roulette computers and methods like visual ballistics are for "suckers", and your "systems" are the way to go, I would like to compare actual winnings. Money talks.

I'm not so sure you have developed even 1% of what I have or spent anywhere near the time I have with roulette, so you are not in position to judge.

Maybe even try the free system I teach at link:://:.genuinewinner.com and see if you can achieve an edge with it, and compare it to your "system" edge. Any gambling "professional" will tell you traditional "systems" don't work. But advantage play and computers have won millions. It really isnt hard to follow. But you are free to think I simply don't know what I'm talking about. It is nothing personal against you twocats, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Maybe just have a look at my public demo video at link:://:.roulettecomputers.com/video-demos/ and tell me if you think my players are "suckers"...

I can try to explain professional roulette principles to system players, but they don't care to listen and think what I say is mere opinion. Ask anyone who actually earns a living from roulette, and you'll find their response corroborates what I say in places like :.genuinewinner.com/truth/

Am I lying and a scammer and all professional players are full of it, or are you wrong? Even without consideration to the mathematical and physical facts, what is more likely?



4. Some people are opposed to the ads. You can start your own forum and do whatever you want with it. Or find a forum without any kind of sponsor-support. Yes I run ads, and in exchange members get a well moderated forum to share and discuss. Most members appreciate this. A few members don't seem to understand why using fake names and inventing characters to lie about your system's results is forbidden.




5. Wannawin, you said:

He made it clear in his last post about John that he does not care for people just anything but their messages to help bring visitors from search sites. Well, not exactly people were they called by him.

No. In my last post I made clear that although JL made lots of posts that is good for me because it means more traffic and more money for me, I decided to ban him because he was clearly a fraud and is bad for the forum's integrity. Is it that hard to understand?? Among other things, he even created fake characters to lie claiming they won a fortune with his system.

Wannawin, if I only cared about money, I would have loved JL to keep posting. But I put integrity before profit. If you truly think I'm the bad guy, God help you. Let me make it perfectly clear, I care much more for truth and forum integrity than running some ads. I don't NEED to run ads or to sell anything. I sincerely care when someone creates nonsense systems them uses fake names to LIE to people about results they can expect.... if they just pay him some attention. And even when I stop taking players, i will still maintain the forums AND moderate well to ensure forum integrity because I want people to learn, not be misled.


I could waste more time on this, but all roads lead to Rome. Sooner or later people will understand what Fender is. Or perhaps they won't. After all, they haven't learned previously. It partially depends on whether or not forum admin accepts behavior like creating fake names to lie about huge winnings, especially when testing of your system shows it fails.

To the people that supported banning an obvious fraud, thankyou. To the people that think banning him was wrong, you are free to start your own forum and allow unlimited fake IDs and lies about system results for everyone.

[buffalowizard]

Touché

Ever since JL denied being Fender (which he only admitted once he was found out) I gave up on the whole bandwagon.

The constant changes to his systems give me headaches as well!

[Steve]

It is ok and normal to adjust a system. But what Fender does is recklessly and deliberately screw with people's heads for attention. Even invents fake characters that claim to have won a fortune. LIES AND LIES AND LIES that again are great for SEO and forum activity, but it destroys forum integrity. Tip of the iceberg and it has all been explained before. Some people may never get it.

[Turner]

Choice is the biggest slice of the democratic pie. Those who are still here after JL was booted made the choice to stay. If you dont like it...top nav.....3 from the right..."logout"
other than that...let increase our roulette knowledge.
Turner

[Steve]

I still dont get why anyone would believe a word JL has to say after everything. fascinating stuff

[furple]

I would have to agree with Steve. It's about time JL got kicked. He suffers from pathological narcissism. Although I don't feel sorry for people that follow his complete nonsense.I do think the forum has to be protected from liars and scammers.

[ddarko]

Whatever 2Cats has "developed" or not his thoughts are viable in las vegas I assume yours are not ??

Just a yes or no reply thxs Steve 



& BTW JL wise I agree with you Steve. Ironic that you did the right & still got panned 

Guess that's your prickly image on the net shining through 

[iggiv]

i hardly believe JL is a liar. but i may be wrong of course.

Steve, this is your forum, you keep it alive and running, so the last word is always yours. We gotta trust your judgement.

As for those who don't like the way it is run, well, there is always a way out. I like this forum, but
i won't beat around the bush, i like JL too. It's hard to believe he was lying about his results.

Well, anyway, he stepped out. But i think his account should stay in tact in case someone wanna have a look and test his methods.

as for me what i think about his methods...i believe in hit-n-run, but i don't believe in outside bets.
So i have mixed feelings about it.

[Steve]

by the way JL wise I agree with you Steve. Ironic that you did the right & still got panned. Guess that's your prickly image on the net shining through

1. Because of ignorance about WHY he was banned, among other things. I've given precise detail of WHY and any reputable admin in my position would have done the same.

2. Yes, a contributing factor is my sparkling image and people believing the first thing they read... from people like two competitors?? from a french kid that wasn't happy about being proven wrong?? It is fact that success makes you a target from envious people. Anyone that believes surface junk without proper investigation considers me satan. Anyone that actually does the research understands where the lies and manipulation is. Another fact is most people don't care enough to do proper research, and find it easier to believe whatever they've heard, or heard that someone else heard. Big long story but I don't have time to address every piece of bs about me. I created :.genuinewinnerroulettesystem.com, did public challenges and even public events, and I'll leave it at that.

Whatever 2Cats has "developed" or not his thoughts are viable in las vegas I assume yours are not ??

If you are asking if my methods are viable in vegas, yes of course. I probably have more players in vegas than any other single place. But this does not include the roulette computers as they are highly illegal there. I'm talking about non-electronic methods.

i hardly believe JL is a liar. but i may be wrong of course.

Iggiv I have been admin of forums for years and seen Fender across multiple forums. Every time it is the same story. Lying to people, fake names and accounts to support his lies and on and on and on. He is a very bad thing for forums if you want the forum to have productive sharing.

It's hard to believe he was lying about his results.

Why is it hard? You saw his method system fail, and then ThePilot comes from nowhere to claim he won $70k with some OTHER system of JL's. So now that is being focused on. At the very least, I'm 100% sure Fender creates systems then gets other people to test them by lying about results and creating fake characters to draw attention to his system. It is a selfish and careless act. Plus he clearly gets off on the attention. Anyway Iggiv time will tell all. And when his latest system falls to pieces, it will all start again AS HE HAS DONE BEFORE MANY TIMES. I could go on froever but consider this one point... 1 year of testing for +70 units and that is proof??? Fender is a complete amateur and a harmful person to the forum, and harmful to progress of people on the forum. It is about far more than just bad systems. He even creates fake accounts to LIE to people. Like I said he has been doing this for years now.

As for hit and run..... if a team of 1,000,000 gamblers all got together for a mass hit and run approach all ov er the world, what would be the overall result? . . . an  overall profit, or overall loss?

Hit and run is not a system. It is nothing more than short term result and it tells you NOTHING about a system's viability.

I must be direct. It may appear conceded but I believe realistically I know roulette better than anyone. 20 years almost every day. The principles we are talking about here are so, so, so basic and elemental in the scope of things and I know them very well as any professional player would. And I try to explain the WHYS to people, but it is rarely understood despite it being so incredibly simple. But know what... 20 years ago, I too thought silly things like that after 10 reds, black HAS to come... and that there would be some kind of long term balance I could use to win.

NO. The balance does occur, but it doesn't help you because over the spins you do win, you are still paid an UNFAIR PAYOUT. It is all explained in clear English at :.genuinewinner.com/truth/

Not opinion. Just plain irrefutable fact.

If people would just understand it, they could save themselves a decade of running in circles.

[ddarko]

Strange, almost a non prickly reply from Steve 

You can get a lot more people to see you POV with honey and a big stick than a big stick alone 

Food for thought maybe 

[Steve]

Darko, when I explain the same thing so many times, of course I'll get frustrated. Especially when I'm only trying to help people.

and ALABALAH, I banned you because you were claiming to have the method and selling your systems. I tolerated this for a long time and was eventually pressed by other members to investigate your honesty. So I did testing and proved your so-called method principles were nonsense. It was clear as day. Your systems didn't work. You were cheating people, and I didn't allow this to continue.

so now you take it personally and speak trash about me.

To clarify one thing, I didn't scam people in the stock market. You want people to believe it because it suits your revenge. Read :.genuinewinner.com/rentech.htm and below:



I was RIGHT about the price increase. What do you know? You know NOTHING but what you heard from a truly sick and manipulative person who also loses money by me having effective technology,... (great source!) without knowing facts for yourself.


My banning of you was to protect people you were trying to cheat. don't tell me you didn't know your system didn't work. Of course you knew. My banning of you was not personal. Your attacks against me are personal. Be a man about it and if you want to discredit me, use accurate facts. Good luck.

Alabalah, understand I am all for free speech. But you were selling a system that did not work, and telling people it was the holy grail. Of course I would not allow anyone to do that. I even gave you ample chances to prove your claims. It is not like I quickly banned you. You had months to prove any claim to be true, and you couldnt once. So don't ever say I don't allow free speech.

It is people like you who damage my credibility because of personal vendettas, even though I was doing the right thing. And people too often believe the first thing they read. Attacks against me occur from envy and pride, but also "competitors" find it easier to compete by lying instead of actually creating better technology

[tonynewlife]

I had a feeling that pilot guy was JL, I don't know I just had a feeling.  There was another person (Crauchy) or something like that who claimed making money with JL's system so now I wonder if that account belonged to JL too.

What kind of a sick person would do all this just to get attention?

Tony

[buffalowizard]

I had a feeling that pilot guy was JL, I don't know I just had a feeling.  There was another person (Crauchy) or something like that who claimed making money with JL's system so now I wonder if that account belonged to JL too.

What kind of a sick person would do all this just to get attention?

Tony

I think you mean chauncy

[tonynewlife]

I think you mean chauncy

yup that's the one, thanks

[Robeenhuut]

I had a feeling that pilot guy was JL, I don't know I just had a feeling.  There was another person (Crauchy) or something like that who claimed making money with JL's system so now I wonder if that account belonged to JL too.

What kind of a sick person would do all this just to get attention?

Tony

I always enjoyed John's rhetoric and the way he always put a positive spin on things. Now the saga continues on other forum where the main focus is of course a new/old weapon Pattern Breaker. But some members already report not so stellar results in playing PB so John has his hands full. And of course Chauncey showed up as well...