You can only win with a progression!

[GLC]

I don't believe that there's a bet selection method that can overcome the house edge in the long run.
In other words, you will always lose more bets than you win.
Therefore, the only way to beat this game or any other game of chance is to be betting more on the wins than you were on the losses.
The more ammo you take to the war, the better your chances of survival.
I've come to the conclusion that in the long run you can't beat this game with small bets and a small bankroll.
You must have enough units to survive some very bad losing streaks.
I think 1000 units is the very minimum bankroll you need to realistically attack this game.
Michael, whom I wrote about recently, in my estimation is just having a lucky streak if he is in fact winning with a flatbet.
I think you should find a system, like Warrior's One four three Roulette system, play it with at least a thousand unit buy-in, with four 1,000 unit back-up banks and you should have a 99.9% chance of never going totally bust and with just a little luck, you should be able to walk out with 100 units on a very regular basis.  Naturally, it will take a 10 wins to offset 1 loss, but your chances of doing that are better than trying to walk away with 10 units and a 100 unit buy-in.
I know that 5000 units is a hefty sum of money, but I truly think that's what you need to have a realistic chance.  Beating roulette isn't a silly game.  It's a serious undertaking and it should be approached as a business.  Most businesses fail because they don't have enough start-up money.
If you don't want to invest what it takes to give yourself a fighting chance, then there are a hundred systems that you can play and have a chance to get lucky for a while and with a small investment, have some fun and frustration and, hopefully, no great harm done if you lose your fun money every now and then.
I know that some of you say that you are winning on a regular basis and I'm not going to say you're not.  I'm just saying that from all my testing, I do the best when I attack a system with a 5,000 unit bank.  Many of the more experienced players will back me up on this, Winkle, MrJ, F_LAT_INO, Fripper etc... etc...
I'm not saying that my mind can't be changed regarding this, I'm just saying that this is where I am at this point after years of examining the game from a lot of different angles.

I'm not seeking to get in a major debate regarding this.  I'm just stating my position at this moment.

All disagreeing points of view are welcome.



GLC

[DaDee]

Totally correct.

I would consider a minimum bankroll to be, 600 outside units, so if playing straight up numbers that would be 600*18= 10,800 units

Flatbetting only will only prolong your losing.


D

[Turner]

It depends on your expectations george. To me, the bigger the bankroll, the worse the day from hell is gonna be. I dont believe having a bigger hammer will knock the nails in better. When i miss the nail....which will happen...and hit my thumb...i want it to be a small panel pin hammer, not a 3lb mallet. I want to whince for 1 minute and suck my thumb. No plaster needed.
See....i factor in losing way above winning.

[DaDee]

It depends on your expectations george. To me, the bigger the bankroll, the worse the day from hell is gonna be. I don't believe having a bigger hammer will knock the nails in better. When i miss the nail....which will happen...and hit my thumb...i want it to be a small panel pin hammer, not a 3lb mallet. I want to whince for 1 minute and suck my thumb. No plaster needed.
See....i factor in losing way above winning.

You missed the point mate. Having a big bankroll doesn't mean you risk it all in one session. It means if your a good player you should never lose all your bankroll and make the occasional withdrawal.
This applies to any form of gambling.
D

[Turner]

You missed the point mate. Having a big bankroll doesn't mean you risk it all in one session. It means if your a good player you should never lose all your bankroll and make the occasional withdrawal.
This applies to any form of gambling.
D

I didnt miss the point. If you dont risk your big bank roll....then you wont need it....will you.

[DaDee]

I didn't miss the point. If you don't risk your big bankroll....then you won't need it....will you.

Everyone has a losing day once in while, so you need to know when to stop and fight another day with more of your bankroll.

You point makes no since, you just basically said 'if you don't play at all then you won't need'

[Steve]

GLC, you are so incredibly wrong, and it is not my mere opinion. You can beat roulette, but only if you increase the accuracy of predictions.

Progression alone is certain death for your bankroll. Absolute fact. You are not covering losses. You are just making different bets of different sizes. I created :.genuinewinner.com/truth.html to help explain it.

[Turner]

Everyone has a losing day once in while, so you need to know when to stop and fight another day with more of your bankroll.

You point makes no since, you just basically said 'if you don't play at all then you won't need'

What we are talking about here isnt big bankrolls....its how much you are willing to throw at the casino out of your pocket. Call it MM....call it a big bank roll...call it what you like. Dress up losing however you want to. If you expect roulette to be positive by something you are doing...you are misguided. Its a negative expectancy game

[marvin]

i wanted to disagree but i couldnt  ... every test that i made i always end up making progression and required bigger bankroll. sure! increasing accuracy on bet selection is a factor but progression always saves the day

[rouletteKEY]

Bet selection is obviously the most important factor and I believe in the long run we can beat the wheel flat.  However you find yourself treading water on a flat basis and then you get a hot streak that puts you ahead and then you of course have to properly time your exit....all for a few units or a seemingly insignificant win in the scheme of looking at this as a business.  If it's all recreation it doesn't matter...anything in the plus is a great day.

With proper bankroll, a small negative progression with a stop-loss and then a positive progression (can be fairly aggressive / albeit short lived) when things look to be turning your way is an approach that works for me.  Keep in mind I am generally playing 1-4 numbers at a time so progressions for me are not the same as progressions for someone playing double dozens.

Bankroll is absolutely crucial to success.  If you can't play it out you are very likely to lose.  You have to have staying power and emotionally you have to know that you don't absolutely have to win in the next x number of spins.

Just my two cents.  Be well funded, pick your bets well, use progressions both positive and negative to your advantage based on your testing and experience.  Always use stop-losses so you don't dig a hole you can't get out of.

[TwoCatSam]

Guys

A progressions basically says, "I'm not winning now, but I will be soon and I'll get all my money back plus a pro*it."  (spilled drink on computer)

*lat betting says, "I'm not winning now on small units, but soon I will win lots more decisions on the same small bet and get all my money back plust a pro*it."

Either way, it's like saying you want a longer board so you saw a twelve inches o** one end and glue it to the other.

Well, maybe not truly that hard............

But close.......

Sam

[TwoCatSam]

The House Edge...........

I* that's all that's bothering anyone, why not go to BVNZ.  They are honest and there is no house edge.  What's to overcome?

Sam

[marvin]

I basically dont believe in house edge, sure i do recognize that it does exist but i just ignore them.
when you bet on a number and you hit it you win, if not you lose as simple as that.

[speed]

@GLC   
If you mean on some positive progression then we can agree that with some deviation on our side we can survive for a while, but if you meant on negative progression then let god help you 

[speed]

I basically don't believe in house edge, sure i do recognize that it does exist but i just ignore them.
when you bet on a number and you hit it you win, if not you lose as simple as that.

and I also tried to ignore the home advantage but after a while  I realized that she will not ignore me