RNG vs Real Wheel (RW)

[nottophammer]

Okay the avg is right now
if we was to bet the avg to come in 1.3125 round up to 2 spins we would lose 2 times.
1st bet  1 *27 *13 =351 out  return  13*36 = 468 in   +117
2nd bet 2*27*1     = 54  out  return    1*72=   72 in   +  18     so + 135
L's  bet  2*54      = 108  out  return   = 0                                    -  108       

so 135 -108 = +27 The avg will remain around 1.3125, so could this bet keep in front, or wait for 2 losses then bet.

11
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1
1
1
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1


3
1
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1
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16

3

1.3125

[nottophammer]

The 16 games avg 15.5 0x's in 30 spins. So how do you deal with the repeats if you are only going to bet the 0x's

[Badger]

The difference between RNG and RW is the formula that is used to generate the next number.
RW is known as a linear congruential number generator and the formula is    Xn+1=(aXn+b)mod37   where  Xn+1 is the next number generated, modm is the maximum number of numbers, 37 in the case of roulette.

So the croupier starts his spin at the last number spun, Xn, and a is how hard or softly he spins the ball, and b is the distance or revolutions the ball travels (ie 37 numbers X 20 revolutions)
That’s how a number is generated on a roulette wheel.

On a computer there are many algorithms to generate a number.eg Mersenne twister
Essentially there is no difference between the two. However, there is software built into RNG that can allow cheating. For instance the program can look at the players balance and decide to generate another number until the player has not covered this number and therefore loses. This can all happen in the blink of an eye, the player not being able to see what happens in the background.

Anyway, thats how I see it.

[nottophammer]

Long time badger,hope all are well.

is your reply 47, to my reply 46.

The 16 games avg 15.5 0x's in 30 spins. So how do you deal with the repeats if you are only going to bet the 0x's

18 games now and still 15.5, if those 30 spins went L,W,L,W. using +1-1,starting with 27 unique, one would end with 12 unique to find after the 30 spins.
Would we not end in profit, as the bets get cheaper.

But i and you know that repeats will not be like that for 30spins, somewhere they'd be a string say 6 repeats, which might cause a loss, so how does one handle the repeats

[Badger]

Hi Hammer

No I was replying to Turner's post.
All the best for the new year.

Regards
Bruce

[Tacwell]

"Picture it: Sicily, 1922" (if you get that you're probably old enough to understand what I'm talking about), punting the ponies, turf flat race at wherever, 36 horses, all trained by the same trainer, all the same age, same merit rating, all running their optimal distance, cloned jockeys, same weight, no blinkers or tongue ties etc, straight sprint, all preferring good going and pen reading of 22 both sides and middle, all at 38/1, would you have punt? I hope not! That's RNG.

Same as above, but with a bend, short run in, pen reading 22 inside and 26 outside, in form horse drawn 2, 2nd in his last and 3rd in his second last, running on in both races and now 1 furlong further, top jock and trainer, drop in class, at the same odds as the other 36, would you have a punt?

[nottophammer]

Replies
5
23
25
26?
30
31?
42
45

26 gets answered at 31

[nottophammer]

Roulette is a mechanical device. Whatever is mechanical is not capable to give you real randomness of events. It will always have some kind of order. Well, not always, but most times. Or just many times.


Remember, that is what British and Polish intelligence used when cracked German Enigma. When operators used it, they did not use it really randomly, they had some patterns repeated over and over again. Because it is very hard for either human or mechanical device to be always random. And there you had both at work, just like at the roulette wheel in a casino. So they tracked those patterns thoroughly. And they were never able to crack the machine completely, they just cracked lots of info, but not all. Just like in roulette, even if u can win, it is impossible to do all the time, each time for thousands of spins. If you try u will always lose.


Computers are different story though. Computer can give u anything u want if programmed  properly for that goal. So here goes an answer to your question why RNG and a physical wheel are different.

Iggiv
i like the above, i like the part ( they had some patterns repeated over and over again.)(So they tracked those patterns thoroughly. And they were never able to crack the machine completely, they just cracked lots of info, but not all.) This is like the FOBT its patterns, patternes of what? Answer 0x,1x and >1x there you have it.

Now i collect games on FOBT around 879, but have neglected up dating, but this has inspired me to up date the FOBT games, the results in the FOBT data, is close to the data in jackpot247. The info from them is knowledge,it gives avg to hit,max to hit and much more, Gut,LOTT,X uniques in X spins, will all help in your decissions.
That small collected data is so valuable.

Imagine this then. Roulette has been played for what over 200 years, imagine if someone had started collecting games at the start,we'd have 200 years of game data showing what,average forwhat a  non-hit takes to hit, max a non-hit could take, after 200 years of game data,one using a rolling 100 games, another for 1,000 games and why not a million, each time a new games data is added,would it change that dramatically. If all 3 sets of data  said the 10th non-hit takes a max of 6 spins, its avg 2 spins,after 200 years if you was playing and see it missed for 3 spins would you not now bet

[nottophammer]

This my friend is just a half way of holy grail or better to say " holy trail " it is the real truth that past spins have influence on future spins and roulette is not random as it look like. 

MJ
If like me when you arrive at the wheel theres something due.
Now this is where the flack starts.
For me theres 37#'s due, i only bet the non-hit after 10 spins, so i've only the past 10 spins to trip me up,as the spins progress they have an influance,so there is some truth in what you say.
Are you going to show the remaining half

[nottophammer]

Heres two images of 1 rng and 1 live wheel,whats the difference.

[denzie]

I wouldn't know.  Both looks good. 

[nottophammer]

Thats my point Den they show the same, 0x's,1x's and the >1x's.
Whats a game of roulette at the end of the day, 0x's,1x's and the >1x's. Like Winkel showed theres a decision to be made, the decision is the bit to be learnt. Just like the other follower Azim, he says to all practice,practice.
Yourself and a few others are now working with the trot.

The 2 pictures are the one showing 33.50 Aspers MK live wheel the other Hills today RNG

[Turner]

RW produces 0,2,14,33,21,27,3,0,18,26

And yes, for the keen eyed, that's identical apart from 26. You saw it land in zero and rattled and jumped next door.

Did it try for 0?
did it miss?
is that the difference (the flaw) with a RW over RNG?....the wood, the ball, the pocket edges?

its a thought experiment.

what a fuc^in stupid thought.

How we change.

[RP501]

If we could stick on a chair of a casino roulette for 2 days without going even to the toilet, we 'd see the same strange and unbelievable outcomes like RNG.
Both are under the rules of randomness. And randomness is a killer. I've seen so many strange outcomes that I'm starting to believe that life in space is based on randomness and not from God (I'm afraid to believ this but it's a kind of way to show you how unbelievable thing is randomness)

I wouldn't go that far - if that were the case, Planets would collide and IF the rotation & revolution of the Earth is "random", then the Earth will either burn-up or freeze-up!  ;-)   

I DO believe that online RNG is very similar to Live Wheel, that is IF it's a "fair" RNG.  You can tell when an online Casino uses a fair RNG software just by playing it.  Get an auto-clicker like TinyTask (:.vtaskstudio.com) or (link:://:.advanced-mouse-auto-clicker.com/auto-clicker.html) -- then go to a Casino that offers a NO sign-up Demo or Real Play with free-spins (spin without having to bet) then let the auto clicker do continuous spins, while you sit, relax and observe the numbers - then you'll start to see "patterns" of randomness, that "balances-out".  Try going to :.AurumAge.com Casino, they have the BEST conditions (options) for "testing".  ;-)

[Joe]

I know this is an old thread but it's the appropriate one, so I'll continue it.

I had The General in mind when thinking about who is most likely to know about this, but anyone is welcome to weigh in - maybe Steve?

If there really is a significant difference between RNG and spins from a wheel, how would I go about proving it statistically? How many spins would I need for a comparison? what differences should I look for? If you can, try to be specific and don't just say that for example RNG is more "random".

I suspect that there really are differences, but if so they will be subtle. BTW by RNG I mean a fair one like random.org. I'm not talking about a particular online casino where the outcomes could be fixed.
Thanks in advance.