To Progress or Not To Progress. Whats Your Opinion ?

[Twisteruk]

Hi All

Was havin a chat with one of my buds the other day and we got talking about horses (bettin on them) and the like.
Then Roulette came up and we talked some more.

His point of view was, if you use Progression then really, you are not winning. He insisted that if you could win then you would be able to do it Flat betting.

So what does everyone think ? Please chime in with your point of view.

I personally agree with him. However I do use Progression. I know, a little of a contradiction. But then life is full of them !

Also he commented on bet dilution.

He said he would not back 5 horses in a 10 horse race.

Hmmmmm I thought.

So What Say You ?

[A3on]

"His point of view was, if you use Progression then really, you are not winning. He insisted that if you could win then you would be able to do it Flat betting."

And that is the phrase I always defend !!

[Blood Angel]

I have heard say that "Progressions are just sticking plaster to bandage up a poor system".

I say "If your winning who gives a rats ..."

[Fripper]

His point of view was, if you use Progression then really, you are not winning. He insisted that if you could win then you would be able to do it Flat betting.

I believe that's the truth.

Ofcourse we can have different progressions and so on, positive or negativ etc..But if it don't win flatbetting, then I don't believe that it will win with any progression.

[Twisteruk]

I have heard say that "Progressions are just sticking plaster to bandage up a poor system".

I say "If your winning who gives a rats ..."

Do you think thats the bottom line guys ?

If U're winning, by whatever means, then so what ?

+100 a day even if you had to Stake 500 to get it is still +100

Comments ?

[albalaha]

progression can help and progression can kill, if a number or set of numbers does not hit within the break even point, what is possible remedy? can you suggest a technique where progression is not necessary?

[Fripper]

Progression can help and progression can kill, if a number or set of numbers does not hit within the break even point, what is possible remedy? can you suggest a technique where progression is not necessary?

You can play every technique without progression, or maybe I got you wrong.

If you mean a winning technique it's a different story.

[Twisteruk]

You can play every technique without progression, or maybe I got you wrong.

If you mean a winning technique it's a different story.

Yes I agree

Because of the negative return, we need Progression. Don't We ?

[albalaha]

One who says progression is not necessary, can sustain but not grow without being lucky. I myself have two techniques without progression but profit can not be guaranteed. There is an adage: NO PAIN, NO GAIN

[F_LAT_INO]

Do you think that's the bottom line guys ?

If U're winning, by whatever means, then so what ?

+100 a day even if you had to Stake 500 to get it is still +100

Comments ?

You are not serious Twist,
--500 to stake to win 100???
---Am staking almost every night 20000 euros,
to win 100-200....and never 100%secure of doing it.

[Twisteruk]

You are not serious Twist,
--500 to stake to win 100???
---Am staking almost every night 20000 euros,
to win 100-200....and never 100%secure of doing it.

It was just an example Flat 

A poor one I give you 

The point I was making was a Stake with a Negative return 

[Fripper]

Yes I agree

Because of the negative return, we need Progression. Don't We ?

We will always get a negative return if you use flatbet or progression, if you don't have an edge.

As your friend said: Progression isn't really winning. For the moment yes, it the long term no.

[Twisteruk]

We will always get a negative return if you use flatbet or progression, if you don't have an edge.

Very True  !

[A3on]

One who says progression is not necessary, can sustain but not grow without being lucky. I myself have two techniques without progression but profit can not be guaranteed. There is an adage: NO PAIN, NO GAIN

One who says progression is necessary, can grow while they are being lucky.
The end will come sooner or later !

[VLS]

"Beating the game" may have two connotations:

1) Beating the game with the positive edge flat betting (i.e. winning more than expected).

2) Making money.

A purist may say you do not beat the game with progressions, because you may only make money but still hold a lower hit rate.

A practical man doesn't really care, as long as there's money made in the long run he "beats" roulette (to himself as proven in his pocket, what matters to him).

My personal opinion is the best way to beat the game is flat betting, given you don't have fluctuate to eternity before getting your units out (win goal peak).

On the other hand, these days I only can take a POSITIVE progression (very soft one +1 on a win) and never a negative one at all. My game improved a lot since when I chose to opt-out of negative progressions. I would suggest others to stop using them in order to become more aware of other ways to play that in my view are inherently more elaborated since the hit doesn't mean total recovery of balance, so more focus must be placed in cycles, streaks, current hot numbers, gaps, deviations from the mean, etc. etc. This makes people more saavy and forces to study the game deeper but it's not appealing to everyone (since the sweetest thing is getting that 1 hit and your bankroll comes back to profit).



Of course, there's a crew who also sustains you can't make money unless you progress negatively to "patch" the bankroll within the minimal amount of spins. A first-hand proponent is my ex-dealer friend, who I've seen making money consistently for the latest years with progressions; sure he loses at times, but given the length of the progressions it's rare.

From the forums there's Ken (Mr. J) who says to be 3.5 years up using progressions in the negative "up as you miss" shape. Can't argue the man when he bought part of a restaurant on roulette money!



In the end, everyone makes as they see fit, but I guess we also are all practical men in this sense: beating roulette means netting money out of the game in the long run, regardless of the way it is achieved.

Vic