New professional roulette system forum

[ddarko]

Requirements of photo id and payment by cheque are usually a state/law requirement, and not a casino choice.  So if one casino in your jurisdiction has a particular threshold, chances are it will be the same in nearby casinos. The table betting limits have no bearing on it. The Ritz players had large bets and still would have need to identify themselves for payouts. But at that time they were not well known so it wasn't a problem.

While I appreciate you answering me Steve, that doesn't answer my question at all. I wasn't asking what the cheque limit was. It's more of a "flying under the radar" question.

I win under £1,000 at the crappy small time Gala casino say 1/2 mile from the Ritz. They aren't worried about somebody winning that amount & therefore I'm under the radar.

How much would I have to win 1/2 mile away at the Ritz to "get there attention" ? my point being surely it would be greater than £1,000 ?

Would winning more than 10,000 euro in Monaco getting them interested in me ?

BTW I was only using the Ritz as an example of a big casino, nothing to do with that huge win with roulette computers. Also for argument's sake I'm playing Ec's. No doubt the answer is more complex than I know but hence the question......

[Steve]

Some variables are:

- Table limit: is the win size common at that specific table?

- Style of play: how are you playing? Betting late and glaring at the wheel?

- How busy is the casino? If you are the only player at the table, the attention is on you

- Over how many spins have you won?

Compare two players:

Player 1: made a few huge bets and walked out with $100k. To the casino that is luck. No suspicion although they are likely to carefully review what happened before paying out.

Player 2: inside bets always based on sectors. Small bets but been playing for hours doing much the same thing. Is up about $2000. Not a lot of money, but has behaviour of an advantage player. This is a red flag despite the small winnings.

A large winning will of course attract attention. But when casino surveilance review footage and see your behavior, they need a large enough data sample to judge your style of play. for example, they may see 60 of your wins were late bets, and in predictable groupings or sectors. Big red flag.

How much would I have to win 1/2 mile away at the Ritz to "get there attention" ? my point being surely it would be greater than £1,000 ?

$1000 is nothing at virtually any casino. But again it is not so much the amount that gives you away. It is your sustained and predictable style of play and behaviour.

There are many variables that change, like how busy a table is.

To anbswer more directly:

How much would I have to win 1/2 mile away at the Ritz to "get there attention" ?

Consider the variables. It is not a black and white answer. If you win $30k on only a few spins, they won't suspect a thing and will consider it luck. But win $2000 over a long period of time AND with red flag behaviour, then you may be noticed.

Would winning more than 10,000 euro in Monaco getting them interested in me ?

Not unless you raised the red flags. It is the same case anywhere. Not so much with the amounts, but the basics. Ie busy table or quiet? Table limits and what is common. Attentiveness of staff at the time. Style of play. Over what amount of spins. Again it is not a black and white thing.

But if you are after a general rule, at any casino, winning $1000 at a time AND mixing bets up so you make like outside bets, play at the right times when its not too busy to the point where there's 1 spin every 5 mins, and not too quiet to the point where you bled in, and the casino will be unlikely to ever put you under the microscope. The fact is if you ever are put under the microscope:

1. If you did your job right, then your winnings will be seen as "potentially" Advantage-play
2. If you made mistakes that make you more transparent, you may be red flagged and put on their database with a photo

If you are put on the database, and someone searches for your face again, and you come up as a "red flag" again, then this is a problem.

Very few casinos have automated facial recognition because it is not reliable enough. To find your face in a database requires manual plotting of dots on a frontal image of your face. Staff will only BOTHER to do this if you raise a red flag.

The latest casino technology tracks bets to check for betting patterns on the table, but it is easily fooled if the player knows what they are doing

detailed enough answer? I could go for hours about it because there's a lot to it

Another thing to keep in mind is casino staff i know WANT players to win, but they have to do something about you if you make it too obvious. Then there are the guys that are strict about their job and take it seriously. you don't see people in the surveillance rooms but they see you, and you must assume everything is watched closely. you can be nice to the dealer and pit boss, but its the people watching video that are the problem

[ddarko]

thank you Steve 

Kinda assumed it wasn't going to be a one sentence answer......

I did state in my previous post that for argument's sake I would be betting Ec's so again I assume they would put it down to luck with no AP red flags......

[ausguy]

ddarko - I assume you are referring to live dealer B & M casinos ? My experience only comes from playing at The Star Casino here in Sydney Australia.

I'm certain the Gala casino you mention would have 5 figure plus winners from time to time? I couldn't see how they would limit their payouts ? All the B & M casinos that I've seen written about none have win payout limits ?  I've heard pit bosses say amongst themselves things like, " Oh well, he wins today but he'll  return again soon & we'll get it all back then  plus some extra."

While they don't have any maximum cash out amounts they do have a $10,000 ID requirement (anti money laundering rules - Anti crime measures Internationally linked as with Interpol & extradition agreements) as well they encourage a cheque for large amounts.

So if you win $9k you can cash that much in without them IDing you, although their cameras will have your image - facial recognition etc.

I spoke to a guy who won $40K in a day/night. Later that evening he said he cashed in 5 times around about $8k each time over the space of a few hours. He said he waits until the cashiers are busy busy. He said he's been coming for years & any wins he's had over $10k he always splits to avoid ID. He said he's never been approached by any casino staff as to his ID. Regular players lose a lot too so perhaps that's why they don't worry too much ? A big win from time to time often fires up other players to bet more ?

Baccarat has tables with limits of up to $75,000 & a $200 min. I saw one bet of $15K win on Player so 30 x $1k chips went into his pocket. Naturally what's not known is what his starting BR was & his long term profit or loss was ? Potentially that player could have cashed in those $30k of chips & needing ID.

As to table staff "looking at you" I think it's more a case of you being self conscious if you win a decent amount. Most casinos turn over millions every day so a few thousand legitimatly won here & there is all part of the scene for pit bosses/supervisors.  Learn to relax & enjoy any decent wins.

Most of all don't let yourself be intimidated by casino staff. After all if they suspected you were cheating they would have withheld any chip payouts while they checked your plays. Steves new post just came in so his views are also very relevant.

With online play naturally they know who you are if you cash out 100 or 15,000. I play from time to time at live dealer Party Casino. Latvian feed & UK admin.

They have graded maximum withdrawals per month depending on your BR & through plays, a bit like frequent flyer points. It starts at bronze & $20K, then silver & $25k. Next is gold $50k then platinum $100k & so on. They're cunning with the currency too, as all the play is in GBP but they convert the limits to USD to make less look more.
They have a shop with all sorts of things depending on your accrued points. The top item was a Lamborghini sports car needing 750,000 points that equates to around 7 1/2 million GBP of through play. High roller territory only. Party Casino promo themselves as the biggest online casino in the world. This is the casino where some guy won 1 1/2 million a couple of months ago playing slots on his iphone.

For specific information on payout limits the cashiers will answer most questions you need to know (best done when not too busy) & they should have an info.
card re: ID limits. $10k AUD here = about 5 1/2 GBP so my guess would be 5k or 6k GBP ? I think Internationally they keep it around the same amounts in most aligned countries ?

I believe UK/London has plenty of casinos so why not spread yourself around ? Find some casinos that you like because your plays there appear to attract little attention as the tables are moderately busy. What about the Isle of Man ? Ireland ? France ? Compared to OZ, where it's mostly 1 city 1 casino & a days drive + just to get there, you are spoilt for choice.

Any casino can ban you/ask you to leave & they don't/usually won't have to give a reason. Varying your casino visits should allow you to mostly "fly under the radar"

Best of luck.

[Steve]

I've never heard anyone being banned or being flagged for EC/outside bets. some tables may have $500 maximum inside bet, and $50,000 max bet. They arent concerned with outside bets.

Thing is almost never will you be banned or approached by casino staff. Almost always all they ever do is apply countermeasures until you either lose or leave. One of my players has ever been caught with the computer, where it was illegal, but he was very lucky to be let off with just a warning. Another player had casino staff stand behind him for a while, we assume applying a detector of some kind, and they did nothing. If you are flagged, most of the time you wont know about it. The best way to know is countermeasures in which case its time to play another game and stay away for a while