Holy Grail By Winkel.

[Azim]

ok thanks for answering, just one final thought.....

After getting answers from Winkel, were are you now with how to play this ?

1. I was playing incorrect & Winkel has put me on the right path.

2. I was playing correctly ish from the start !!!!

3. His answers have just mudded the waters & I'm more confused than ever....

This to me makes no difference at all. Personally, When I first looked at it, I liked it and never went back to it.
The only reason I went deep into this the way I have. Is because Sam and BudskiiHD both claimed that they had lost. Made me wonder what Winkel had missed.
He hasn't missed anything. I personally think, HERB and the negativity got to Winkel.
Everyone was out trying to learn. There was no one to support him.

HERB had his mind set. No disrespect to HERB.  But we wasn't understanding Winkel as to why Winkel was saying if this you watch for that. He as soon as he saw if and you do that, got on to Winkel, that you are now changing the rules.  No Winkel wasn't changing the rules. He was telling everyone, what to look out for in order to avoid the losses.

Winkel was trying to educate everyone. He is still willing to educate us.

Just like my previous question to Winkel, he explained me why, what I wanted to do will not work.
And when I thought about it from his perspective he is right.

I ask because it appears to me there is no right / wrong way to play this. The "human factor" makes all the difference.

HUMAN FACTOR will always be involved in gambling. If you want to remove human factor from gambling you have to make it into a bot.

Short of the trackers we have. If this can be studied in depth like the way Winkel has done it for himself and shared with us the wisdom he has found. I think it will be a nice challenge for someone to bot this. I mean complete thinking from all aspect by the bot.

[ddarko]

thanks for the detailed reply 

HUMAN FACTOR will always be involved in gambling. If you want to remove human factor from gambling you have to make it into a bot.

People I think as a rule are looking for a method/system that DOESN'T have any human factor. A IF/THEN flow chart as it were......

Re : Bots, well if I ever found a grail I'd never bot it. Because the guy I paid to program it would have it as well.....

Happy hunting with the GUT, it looks too much like hard work for my simpleton mind 

[ugly bob]

Happy hunting with the GUT, it looks too much like hard work

You can't expect the rewards if you don't study it and put in the hours. What is the betting that a few people have stuck with GUT since it appeared and slowly fine tuned it year by year to perfection at the expense of anything else. I suppose we will never know the answer to that one! (not even Mr Winkel himself)

All games of chance ebb and flow, even games played by AP players. Only by hours of study and research, will you find the right time to attack and when to leave well alone. Like a positive true count in BJ to finding the peak using VB.

Luck plays a secondary role compared to a players skill and the art of timing.

good luck and good timing!

[ddarko]

You can't expect the rewards if you don't study it and put in the hours. What is the betting that a few people have stuck with GUT since it appeared and slowly fine tuned it year by year to perfection at the expense of anything else. I suppose we will never know the answer to that one! (not even Mr Winkel himself)

All games of chance ebb and flow, even games played by AP players. Only by hours of study and research, will you find the right time to attack and when to leave well alone. Like a positive true count in BJ to finding the peak using VB.

Luck plays a secondary role compared to a players skill and the art of timing.

good luck and good timing!

I couldn't agree more bob  I only stated it was too much hard work for me, & me alone.....

I believe the simpler the system the better is all.....

[winkel]

by the way the excel sheet only has a count of 1, 040, 436.

Sorry, I mixed it up with another statistics that was run on 10 million spins.

[winkel]

I couldn't agree more bob  I only stated it was too much hard work for me, & me alone.....

I believe the simpler the system the better is all.....

You think that a complex system like probability can be beaten by a simple bet rule?

I never ever forced anyone to read or to learn or to play this. It is all free and open. So if you don´t like my way of looking at roulette you are welcome not to read but to leave.

If you have an simple system that works  with you just play it and win.

[kingsroulette]

If you have an simple system that works  with you just play it and win.

Well said. nothing wins mechanically unless u have millions of chips, willingness to lose that and a table spread allowing you unlimited bets.

[Azim]

Sorry, I mixed it up with another statistics that was run on 10 million spins.

That's ok. Will you have a problem sharing the number's for spin 24 or 26 both would be nice, but I will take whatever you can offer out of the 2.

[winkel]

I don´t have spin 24

so I give you Spin 26 and 27

[Azim]

Thank you.

[ddarko]

Well said. nothing wins mechanically unless u have millions of chips, willingness to lose that and a table spread allowing you unlimited bets.

Well not if your flat-betting Albalaha Erm Kingsroulette.......

@ Winkel

Why do you take everything to heart ? I'm not knocking the GUT, ALL I said was it wasn't for me 

[winkel]

Thank you.

any questions, results, ideas?

any new test-results?

[Azim]

I have tried everything I can with spins 25,26,27  there seems no statistic that matches the pre-calculated numbers. Like we all know, next spin is independent, too many variables to deal with.
Nothing wrong with the number's you have provided. It's like you said, there is a a lot of combinations and it's hard to pre-determine them all.

[winkel]

I have tried everything I can with spins 25,26,27  there seems no statistic that matches the pre-calculated numbers. Like we all know, next spin is independent, too many variables to deal with.
Nothing wrong with the number's you have provided. It's like you said, there is a a lot of combinations and it's hard to pre-determine them all.

as you didn´t find any hints in that statistics let me give you a clou:

If you have that crossing 19 unhit to 18 hits ( a crossing we shouldn´t play) you will find different combinations with different appearances. Now check these out and try to find what is the difference in there hitrates in the next spin?

If you can´t see there what I mean. so scroll down to bottom of the list 25 and check the highest number of unhits (by the way it is 26). then check lists 26 and 27. then also check the numbers of 25 unhits.

br
winkel

[Azim]

Winkel,  You have said, exactly what I was thinking.  But looks like I either don't understand the number's you have sent or I am not concentrating enough due to other commitments at the moment.

When I do the tracking manually,  I have a good hit rate.  It's as you said, we can see a lot of things happening before the crossings. However, It's cumbersome to do it mechanically. I know it can be done. It's just a matter of time and paying close attention to the numbers.  I am trying to work my way spin by spin to find all possible crossings at spins 25 not the result set. I mean crossings at every spin 25,26, and 27.  After I find them , I can compare them to your 3 pages and find out.

Example. here is what I mean.
Spin 1: we know it will always be: 36 1

Now After spin 1 for spin 2 there will always be 2 possible results. 1) 35 2 or 36 0 1

Now After spin 2 for spin 3 there will always be 2 possible results: 1) 34 3 or 36 0 0 1

now keep doing that till we pass our first check point which is spin 13..  do it again till we get to our next check point  25 and do it again till 37 and finally 50.

Keeping track of all possible crossings.  I am sure can't prove it yet, but example

if we have a crossing at spin 25 which is  0 vs 1  at 16  but >1 is at 3 and =2 is at 2 and >2 is at 1  may be thats the indication as to bet or not bet.  Is what I am after.

or we could get a crossing 17 vs 17  but this time > 1 is at 5 or something..  Based on previous I know it is independent but statistics never lie.  May be that's the crossing  with right numbers of >1 =2 and >2  have to be for it to change and make it a favorable betting opportunity. I know you have done the work and have the data. But It's hard for me with just the 3 pages to follow anything. I thought it would be simple but it's not.