Holy Grail By Winkel.

[warrior]

The only reason I don't use this is because I don't understand it .It doesn't mean it won't work.but what do I know.

[nowun]

The only reason I don't use this is because I don't understand it .It doesn't mean it won't work.but what do I know.

No Winkel fanboy here, but I think his idea here is good.  Having read the original 80 page thread a long time ago, I tested this out quite a bit and played with some success and will most likely give it another go at some point.  I just find it a bit time consuming at times.  Not a method that can really be used in a B&M casino.

[Normy2000]

Personaly, it's one of my top 3 winning method of play!   

[winkel]

I took a look and had a big laugh on that "losing" trot azim posted:

spin 406
missed crossing to detect 1 vs >1 9 units
spin 407 loss -9
spin 408 loss -9 tot -18
and crossing gone because it is now 10 vs 8

spin 410
missed crossing to detect 1 vs >1 10 units
bet spin 411 and hit +26 total now +8

spin 413
1vs >1 10 units
bet spin  414 loss -10 and new crossing 2 vs >2 5 units (need decision: bet 1st, bet 2nd, bet both crossings)
spin 415 loss -10 loss -5
spin 416 win 1st crossing +26 loss -5
spin 417 bet 6 units on crossing 2 and win 30 units
+26 +8 total now +34

need decision: +34 enough or do I go for a million
watching what is going on

spin 419
crossing 1 vs >1 (multiple betselection on 1 vs >1 need decision: play for cntinuing winning strak or better stop?)
11 unis to bet
spin 420 win +25 due to your decision +59 or still +34
and new crossing on 2vs>2 6u
spin 421 loss 6 decision: stop with 53/28 or risk
spin 422 loss 6 decision: stop with 47/22 or risk

crossings count 13 12 12 6 6 ( 0 vs 1 is 13u; 1 vs >1 againis  12u; 2 vs >2 is 6u)
you have now 3 crossings to bet at the same time. Decision needed which to bet or if in doubt don´t bet and jump or start a new count.
I would have stopped here at latest point.

as we invested 12 units on cross "2vs>2 and its the lowest risk of 6 units we have a chance
crossing had hit at spin 424

what is so difficult with that trot?

But if you only bet 1 crossingposition you won´t gain the possibilities this gives to you
and if you had made any decision as the positions I´ve marked you couldn´t lose this trot.

br
winkel

[falkor]

Contradiction! (winkel can wriggle his way out of anything by changing the rules as he goes along in hindsight of a completed session!)

23   15   11   9   1   1   interesting - 1's = 11 and >1's = 10. last two were 1's and zeros overdue. I think this will lose. No bet   
1   14   12   9   1   1   12 v 11 still a bet. I think now could be okay to bet.   
22   14   11   10   1   1   win +24. The 11 v 10 is now flagging to cross. Dangerous since zeros overdue. Plus >2 not many hit. No bet   24

18   14   10   11   1   1   it won. I should have bet but didn’t because had hit in 3 of last 4. was I right?   
15   14   10   10   2   1   10 v10 comes back on. I think zeros due so no bet.   
22   14   10   9   3   1   still no bet   
18   14   10   8   4   1   no signals now.   
8   14   10   8   3   2     
13   14   10   7   4   2   7 v6 is up. Below 9 so no bet. Zeros overdue   
15   14   10   7   3   3     
0   13   11   7   3   3   13 v11. another zero could be signal. Should have reset maybe by now?   
34   12   12   7   3   3   12 v 12. Will bet since zeros overdue. However - has hit twice in row.   
15   12   12   7   3   3   Lose -12. 12 v 12 still the bet. Rebet again.   -12
1   12   11   8   3   3   Lose -12. 12 v 11 still the bet. Rebet again. Final attempt   -12
7   12   10   9   3   3   Lose. -12. I think the erroe was that 1's had not hit in about 7 or 8 spins when I started betting.   -12
12   12   9   10   3   3   so 1's were overdue. And I should have bet the 10v9 on last spin but missed it. Silly boy.   
6   11   10   10   3   3   now an interesting one. I would back the 11 v 10 since zeros overdue. But no bet since reset after a stop out (-36)   
6   11   9   11   3   3   would have been wrong   
6   11   9   10   4   3     
20   10   10   10   4   3   another dilemma. Again would go for zeros but no bet   
23   10   10   9   5   3   again another loser. Winkel feedback here would be so useful! Big session with many dilemmas.   

The main problem here is that you started betting without having bet the crossing "0" vs "1"!!!!
The Zero´s stayed slow. This is a rare situation in the progressing of an Permanence. because it is rare it is difficult to play.

[Azim]

Contradiction! (winkel can wriggle his way out of anything by changing the rules as he goes along in hindsight of a completed session!)

23   15   11   9   1   1   interesting - 1's = 11 and >1's = 10. last two were 1's and zeros overdue. I think this will lose. No bet   
1   14   12   9   1   1   12 v 11 still a bet. I think now could be okay to bet.   
22   14   11   10   1   1   win +24. The 11 v 10 is now flagging to cross. Dangerous since zeros overdue. Plus >2 not many hit. No bet   24

18   14   10   11   1   1   it won. I should have bet but didn’t because had hit in 3 of last 4. was I right?   
15   14   10   10   2   1   10 v10 comes back on. I think zeros due so no bet.   
22   14   10   9   3   1   still no bet   
18   14   10   8   4   1   no signals now.   
8   14   10   8   3   2     
13   14   10   7   4   2   7 v6 is up. Below 9 so no bet. Zeros overdue   
15   14   10   7   3   3     
0   13   11   7   3   3   13 v11. another zero could be signal. Should have reset maybe by now?   
34   12   12   7   3   3   12 v 12. Will bet since zeros overdue. However - has hit twice in row.   
15   12   12   7   3   3   Lose -12. 12 v 12 still the bet. Rebet again.   -12
1   12   11   8   3   3   Lose -12. 12 v 11 still the bet. Rebet again. Final attempt   -12
7   12   10   9   3   3   Lose. -12. I think the erroe was that 1's had not hit in about 7 or 8 spins when I started betting.   -12
12   12   9   10   3   3   so 1's were overdue. And I should have bet the 10v9 on last spin but missed it. Silly boy.   
6   11   10   10   3   3   now an interesting one. I would back the 11 v 10 since zeros overdue. But no bet since reset after a stop out (-36)   
6   11   9   11   3   3   would have been wrong   
6   11   9   10   4   3     
20   10   10   10   4   3   another dilemma. Again would go for zeros but no bet   
23   10   10   9   5   3   again another loser. Winkel feedback here would be so useful! Big session with many dilemmas.   

PLEASE GO BACK AND READ>>>>   I TOLD YOU YOU WILL FIND AN EASY WAY OUT...

HERE IF YOU THINK HE KNEW THE  SESSION.  I ASKED YOU TO POST TILL THE CROSSING. WAIT FOR A REPLY AND POST THE REST OF THE SESSION AS YOU WANT TO GO ALONG..


STOP MAKING WINKEL LOOK LIKE HE IS CHANGING RULES.  IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE RULES DONT BOTHER WITH THIS THREAD.

[winkel]

You are wrong again, falkor.

In your trot the 0s had been fast: 24 13 0 at spin 13 of the trot.

[winkel]

Contradiction! (winkel can wriggle his way out of anything by changing the rules as he goes along in hindsight of a completed session!)

I miss the names of Positions. But I think its following order Coup - 0 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4

23   15   11   9   1   1   interesting - 1's = 11 and >1's = 10. last two were 1's and zeros overdue. I think this will lose. No bet   
1   14   12   9   1   1   12 v 11 still a bet. I think now could be okay to bet.   
22   14   11   10   1   1   win +24. The 11 v 10 is now flagging to cross. Dangerous since zeros overdue. can´t comment this, bec. I don´t know the exact # of the spin. Could be spin 38 Plus >2 not many hit. No bet   24

18   14   10   11   1   1   it won. I should have bet but didn’t because had hit in 3 of last 4. was I right?   hits on 1 were 12to11 then 11to10 then no hit and no hit
15   14   10   10   2   1   10 v10 comes back on. I think zeros due so no bet.   
22   14   10   9   3   1   still no bet   
18   14   10   8   4   1   no signals now.   
8   14   10   8   3   2     
13   14   10   7   4   2   7 v6 is up. Below 9 so no bet. Zeros overdue   
15   14   10   7   3   3     
0   13   11   7   3   3   13 v11. another zero could be signal. Should have reset maybe by now?   
34   12   12   7   3   3   12 v 12. Will bet since zeros overdue. However - has hit twice in row.   
15   12   12   7   3   3   Lose -12. 12 v 12 still the bet. Rebet again.   -12
1   12   11   8   3   3   Lose -12. 12 v 11 still the bet. Rebet again. Final attempt   -12
7   12   10   9   3   3   Lose. -12. I think the erroe was that 1's had not hit in about 7 or 8 spins when I started betting.   -12 you could bet now on 10vs9 and it hits
12   12   9   10   3   3   so 1's were overdue. And I should have bet the 10v9 on last spin but missed it. Silly boy.   
6   11   10   10   3   3   now an interesting one. I would back the 11 v 10 since zeros overdue. But no bet since reset after a stop out (-36)   again the problem of 3 crossings, better jump or restart
6   11   9   11   3   3   would have been wrong   
6   11   9   10   4   3     
20   10   10   10   4   3   another dilemma. Again would go for zeros but no bet   
23   10   10   9   5   3   again another loser. Winkel feedback here would be so useful! Big session with many dilemmas.   

after I´ve read your PM to me, I do answer in favor of others but not of you

[falkor]

winkel has said time and time again that he never plays a higher range crossing until playing a 0 vs. 1 first (see quote above and quote below):

22   10   22   8   7   7   0
23   30   21   9   7   7   0
24   6   20   10   7   7   0
25   31   19   11   7   7   0
26   21   19   10   8   8   0
27   x   19   10   8   8   0
28   x   19   10   8   8   0
we need at minimum 4 spins to meet the first crossing
we wouldn´t play a possible 9 "1" vs 9 "2"

However, now that I showed how a 0 vs. 1 crossing can lose 7-8 times in a row, winkel decides it's ok to start playing higher range crossings early!

[winkel]

falkor pls don´t mix up quotes from BASICS of GUT and extented versions.

It was difficult enough to explain the basics. I couldn´t teach every possible combination in the first posts.

[MrG]

What I said was in went through 219,000,000 random numbers to make my bot a winning bot.


The method/system that has been presented by Winkel is a sure winner.

Only obstacle I can see from this system/method is the ability to be able to read the crossings.

Some will claim the above statement goes true for any system. I defer to agree because this system/ method is based on an event that has to take place. It could be a crossing at 1 or a crossing at 2,

It's not something someone can present to another on a silver platter.

It's all practice and making yourself avoid mistakes. If unsure don't bet. As said by Winkel.

Yes, I read a lot about GUT, so I realize this is not a method with rules set in stone. But I also read your discussion with Winkel in this thread about using a statistics for effective play. I'm wondering whether or not you are using statistics for playing? Because I know Winkel mentioned it can't be played based on statistics, but based on reading what is going on. Or how did you use statistics you did on 219 000 000 spins? Because I'm thinking about making my own statistics, but am not sure if it has any meaning to do so or if it can be helpful in any way.

[Azim]

I am sorry if there has been any misunderstanding.

The bot went through 219000000 as a test and Winkel has already provided us with the stats.

If you read the post's carefully, I did start using statistics to do what I think you want to do and it failed.

Winkel, had already warned me that it would fail even before I started. I was just stuborn and wanted to try it, using past statistics. It didn't work.

I am hoping I have clarified your question.

[MrG]

I am sorry if there has been any misunderstanding.

The bot went through 219000000 as a test and Winkel has already provided us with the stats.

If you read the post's carefully, I did start using statistics to do what I think you want to do and it failed.

Winkel, had already warned me that it would fail even before I started. I was just stuborn and wanted to try it, using past statistics. It didn't work.

I am hoping I have clarified your question.

Thank you for answering, so basicaly it doesn't make any sense doing a statistics on millions of spins because it doesn't help with playing. The best or only way is to practise playing and using reading what is going on.
I understood from some of your previous posts that you created a bot and it proved that this method is a long term winner or so called holy grail. But maybe I got it wrong.

[Azim]

Thank you for answering, so basicaly it doesn't make any sense doing a statistics on millions of spins because it doesn't help with playing. The best or only way is to practise playing and using reading what is going on.
I understood from some of your previous posts that you created a bot and it proved that this method is a long term winner or so called holy grail. But maybe I got it wrong.

Yes, I did create a bot for this. To prove that it is a winning system.

I also had about 3 or 4 videos or screen recording to prove that this system/method is a winner.

Winkel, has answered every possible situation in how to handle it.

[RouletteGhost]

I dont know anything about this system. This is gut? Where do i begin