Holy Grail By Winkel.

JimmieB · May 16, 04:49 PM 2015

When I first joined the forum I had a look at this, and due my limited knowledge of roulette at the time, I didnâ€™t understand it, however, since joining the forum, I've gained much more knowledge of roulette (thanks to all the members who have helped me

), and after the thread popped up again in the forum recently, I thought I would give it another read. I believe I now have a good understanding of it , and have started to test, I do like it, thanks winkel, however, it's going to take a lot of practice for me to get "good" at it....

@winkel/Azim, I would appreciate it if you could please look at my first test attached, which I used with the GUT tracker4, and see if you would have it played it any differently, Iâ€™m sure you would have!!! Apologies for not showing the table in the actual post, as Iâ€™m not too cleaver at doing that sort of thing.

I know there are a few naysayers regarding this system, and I can see why, however, as I've mentioned, I like it, yes, you are betting on an event happening, however, these events happen frequently, and will happen, meaning many betting opportunities, the key is knowing when to bet. For example you could have 10 blacks in a row, and you think, right, red is due as this "event" will happen, which it will...at some point, I'll bet 3 spins maximum, we lose, how long is it before you see 10 blacks, or, reds, etc. again....a long time, with this, the events to bet on are much more frequent, and give you pretty good odds...

Regards
Jim

nottophammer · May 20, 11:26 AM 2015

Jimmie
yesterday ladbrokes had 52 spins Â£10.40 for .20p units, was going to reset but the paper tracker i'd only printed 1 side,can send the numbers if you want

nottophammer · May 26, 11:35 AM 2015

Hi Wink
I know this form long long ago, but interested in table stop +40 or spin 50. Days 19 to 21, what is the reason days 19,20 all lose and day 21 only touch bet wins. Seems strange all lose on the same days. But like seeing rng having best result over all.

instead of an answer I give you my results

Stop at -40 or +40
[table=,]Day , RNG , Touch , Live , day result , bankroll tot
all , 162 , 60 , 683 , , 905
1 , -49 , -40 , 41 , -48 , -48
2 , -40 , 46 , -26 , -20 , -68
3 , 59 , -41 , -44 , -26 , -94
4 , 21 , -31 , -1 , -11 , -105
5 , -40 , -14 , -40 , -94 , -199
6 , 47 , 41 , 41 , 129 , -70
7 , 44 , -52 , 59 , 51 , -19
8 , -50 , 40 , 44 , 34 , 15
9 , 27 , -40 , -44 , -57 , -42
10 , 56 , 44 , -45 , 55 , 13
11 , -48 , -9 , 55 , -2 , 11
12 , -44 , 37 , 25 , 18 , 29
13 , 6 , -23 , 43 , 26 , 55
14 , -44 , -40 , 44 , -40 , 15
15 , 45 , -50 , 3 , -2 , 13
16 , 54 , 41 , 2 , 97 , 110
17 , 41 , 30 , 26 , 97 , 207
18 , -40 , -30 , 43 , -27 , 180
19 , -6 , -45 , -43 , -94 , 86
20 , -34 , -43 , -4 , -81 , 5
21 , -40 , -44 , 42 , -42 , -37
22 , -42 , 64 , 1 , 23 , -14
23 , -44 , 0 , 43 , -1 , -15
24 , 44 , -41 , -47 , -44 , -59
25 , -44 , -46 , -40 , -130 , -189
26 , -41 , -42 , 35 , -48 , -237
27 , 5 , -2 , 43 , 46 , -191
28 , 42 , -17 , 46 , 71 , -120
29 , -50 , 40 , 23 , 13 , -107
30 , 49 , 47 , 40 , 136 , 29
31 , 41 , -48 , -37 , -44 , -15
32 , 5 , -44 , 20 , -19 , -34
33 , -41 , 52 , 35 , 46 , 12
34 , 47 , 46 , -50 , 43 , 55
35 , 5 , 56 , 46 , 107 , 162
36 , 25 , 51 , 50 , 126 , 288
37 , 42 , -42 , 44 , 44 , 332
38 , -50 , 23 , -47 , -74 , 258
39 , -27 , 55 , 24 , 52 , 310
40 , -51 , -49 , 47 , -53 , 257
41 , 47 , 41 , -50 , 38 , 295
42 , 54 , -16 , -19 , 19 , 314
43 , 41 , 49 , 22 , 112 , 426
44 , -8 , 53 , 47 , 92 , 518
45 , 58 , 51 , 46 , 155 , 673
46 , 42 , -10 , 49 , 81 , 754
47 , -46 , -44 , 32 , -58 , 696
48 , 8 , 50 , -43 , 15 , 711
49 , 45 , 49 , 53 , 147 , 858
50 , 41 , -43 , 49 , 47 , 905
51 , 40 , -46 , 1 , -5 , 900
52 , -21 , -6 , -33 , -60 , 840

stop at +40 or spin 50
[table=,]Day , RNG , Touch , Live , day result , bankroll tot
all , 782 , 222 , 594 , , 1598
1 , -32 , 37 , 41 , 46 , 46
2 , -17 , 46 , -26 , 3 , 49
3 , 59 , -43 , -22 , -6 , 43
4 , 21 , -31 , -1 , -11 , 32
5 , -18 , -14 , -16 , -48 , -16
6 , 47 , 41 , 41 , 129 , 113
7 , 44 , -79 , 59 , 24 , 137
8 , -10 , 40 , 44 , 74 , 211
9 , -45 , -30 , 2 , -73 , 138
10 , 56 , 44 , -49 , 51 , 189
11 , -3 , -9 , 55 , 43 , 232
12 , 17 , 37 , 25 , 79 , 311
13 , 6 , -23 , 43 , 26 , 337
14 , 4 , -66 , 44 , -18 , 319
15 , 45 , 5 , 3 , 53 , 372
16 , 54 , 41 , 2 , 97 , 469
17 , 41 , 30 , 26 , 97 , 566
18 , 59 , -30 , 43 , 72 , 638
19 , -6 , -64 , -69 , -139 , 499
20 , -34 , -43 , -4 , -81 , 418
21 , -55 , -45 , 42 , -58 , 360
22 , 15 , 64 , 1 , 80 , 440
23 , 29 , 0 , 43 , 72 , 512
24 , 44 , -10 , -14 , 20 , 532
25 , -12 , -60 , -111 , -183 , 349
26 , 19 , 27 , 35 , 81 , 430
27 , 5 , -2 , 43 , 46 , 476
28 , 42 , -17 , 46 , 71 , 547
29 , -43 , 40 , 23 , 20 , 567
30 , 49 , 47 , 40 , 136 , 703
31 , 41 , -15 , -37 , -11 , 692
32 , 5 , -27 , 20 , -2 , 690
33 , -41 , 52 , 35 , 46 , 736
34 , 47 , 46 , -93 , 0 , 736
35 , 5 , 56 , 46 , 107 , 843
36 , 25 , 51 , 50 , 126 , 969
37 , 42 , -56 , 44 , 30 , 999
38 , 21 , 23 , -47 , -3 , 996
39 , -27 , 55 , 24 , 52 , 1048
40 , -2 , -75 , 47 , -30 , 1018
41 , 47 , 41 , -107 , -19 , 999
42 , 54 , -16 , -19 , 19 , 1018
43 , 41 , 49 , 22 , 112 , 1130
44 , -8 , 53 , 47 , 92 , 1222
45 , 58 , 51 , 46 , 155 , 1377
46 , 42 , -10 , 49 , 81 , 1458
47 , -43 , -63 , 32 , -74 , 1384
48 , 8 , 50 , -56 , 2 , 1386
49 , 45 , 49 , 53 , 147 , 1533
50 , 41 , -25 , 49 , 65 , 1598
51 , 40 , -79 , 1 , -38 , 1560
52 , -21 , -6 , -33 , -60 , 1500

ati · May 27, 02:17 AM 2015

Quote from: nottophammer on May 26, 11:35 AM 2015
what is the reason days 19,20 all lose and day 21 only touch bet wins. Seems strange all lose on the same days.

It's still gambling, there can be no 100% winner system. Same happened to me while I was playing the gut. One day I won 200 units in about 100 spins flat bet, two days later I had around 25 losing bets in a row.
An unlucky series of numbers can and will come eventually.

nottophammer · May 27, 05:13 AM 2015

Hi Ati
It just seems strange that three different sources all lose same time for 2 days

nottophammer · May 27, 01:05 PM 2015

Think got me tracking right. Now to see how Great Grampas finals crossings would fair

nottophammer · May 27, 06:36 PM 2015

The above sheet, my thinking as we went along
When got in Ladbrokes there on the screen is the previous 11 spins. Now i didn't really want to mark them off,so i started fresh,37 numbers due,( thats right nothings due,LOL). Well the due numbers start to arrive like buses DD, to get the numbers the machine Global draw,think they might have changed their name, want a pound to spin the wheel,i don't want to give them a pound so the bet has to be 6 d/s and hope the zero not come in.
So we get 10 spins no repeat,now before working with GUT, i'd record how long each number takes to hit, with 10 hit theres 27 to find, by the end of the next 30 spins usually the machine gives 15 point something numbers,its nearer to 16 but droping the point stuff leaves a nice 15 half of 30. So at spin 40 we could see 25 numbers hit.

Well look at spin 40, 13 no hitters meaning 24 have hit,just 1 short of the avg 15.

So back to the 10th spin seeing the trot as wink calls it, is fast,2 spins later 12 straight hits, now this to me is saying bet the 12 1x's and you see i did,nice. now were just watching the trot and to the left how the numbers are hitting,the 16 on the 16th spin is the 5th to hit,now i usually see 7 hit on avg in spins 11 to 20 so with 5 already hit i think lets bet the 14 1x's, and far right you see the Â£2.80 14*.20p and another win. Now winkel says this is not Gut, you telling me he dont watch and bet before 17 no: hit are left.
Okay 20 spins gone, in spins 11 to 20 the usual avg 7 hit, next spin the 19 is here but dont bet, 18 0x left, in spins 21 to 30 expect to see another 5 hit and as 2 already hit, the 16 hit once seem a good bet or should i say decision far right see 1x's, win, +Â£13.20 for the 3 wins, all down to Gut and from what knowledge gained from keeping a couple thousand games recorded.
24th spin zero so thats the six d/s gone -Â£1.20 as when not betting got to cheap spin.Trigger 17 v 16 now i dont bet this and it wins, now that its 16 v 17 are we due a >1 now and bet the four, miss, but trigger 16 v16 but rebet the >1's miss and the trigger missed, wil rebet the >1's, miss, 16 v 14 no trigger, but rebet the >1's and win.

30 spins done and 5 hit in spins 21 to 30, so game is going nice. trigger 15 v15, but for some reason dont fancy it and it loses,trigger still on and wins. Now we need 3 wins in spins 31 to 40 for the avg of 15 in 30 spins, we have had 1 hit already, now as theres 8 spins to get to 40 and we only need 2 more to hit i think lets bet the 1x's 16 numbers,will get 2 chances and its a win. The non hit, if keep hitting will not give a trigger. So its just watch time. Number 9 hits making 13-16-8-7, as you can see we've had a 3x and 4x's are the 2x's going to hit,just watch. 37th spin avg looking good,so will the 1x's hit, so start betting the 14 1x's lose but rebet and hit. The hit gives trigger 0x v 1x 13/13 now i've gone against the triggers but start to bet as if it hits it will give the avg of 15 in 30 spins but it misses,so -1 14 numbers in 30 spins,but back to GUT,we can rebet but it misses, now should let it go, but this is where having missed for 7 spins, the longest i've seen it miss is 16 spins so we are well on the way, i can bet it for another 6 spins, then i'll be at max bet, so i'll double the bet and it wins.
So with tracking how a number is hitting from my records and Gut a win of Â£ 24.60

Thanks for the extra tracking Winkel.

nottophammer · May 27, 06:45 PM 2015

Quote from: ati on May 27, 02:17 AM 2015
It's still gambling, there can be no 100% winner system. Same happened to me while I was playing the gut. One day I won 200 units in about 100 spins flat bet, two days later I had around 25 losing bets in a row.
An unlucky series of numbers can and will come eventually.

Ati bet Azim and Winkel would like to see those 25 losing bets

ati · May 28, 02:00 AM 2015

I don't have the numbers, I only write down statistics, and I have to add that I did not play the original way. I'm still trying new things, and it takes a lot of time to fine tune my version.

Btw, yesterday I had one of the luckier sessions. I only had a short time, so I thought I play a few spins and see how it goes. I had 3 triggers within 10 spins, and I won all three of them on the first bet, and finished the short session with nearly 100 units profit.

winkel · May 28, 01:12 PM 2015

Hi nottop,

thats what IÂ´ve always told: watch the crossings and watch what ist going on. If a crossing comes up and you donÂ´t trust it, the next idea is to bet the other chance.

I never had a chance to explain this to this point, because of too many enemies. But as you found by yourself: This ist the chance to bet nearly every spin, if you can detect, what is going on.

BUT: You have to be aware: There is no automatism in it. You can be wrong, Your ability to make the right decisions might be missing. So learn to stop the game. Learn to jump to another sequence and so on.

br
winkel

nottophammer · May 28, 02:54 PM 2015

Hello Winkel
I still do tests on old sheets, heres todays 2sheets from Paddy Power, sheet two is the jump or start to track a new run.
On sheet one top left are the 10 numbers left by another player so i think best to start fresh.
Spin 54 i decided to bet >1's but it said 16 to bet, but the meter said Â£3.00 instead of 3.20, but as its shows 15 numbers i let it go and lost, rebet and won.
The other red pen is me looking at triggers, like 2 v 3, and the loss of 15 v 14

Sheet 2, two wins before spin 25, but this is the bit,i'd marked 17-15 -6-6 and it dont make the 20, so realised correct to 5-5 and now the >1's gone 17 spins and on sheet 1 the >1's are 15 (16 after correction), the >1's on sheet 2 are showing 5, so to me the >1's are a good bet, i placed the 5 *.20p and thought, am i sure, but remember i could get 5 chances for this, as you can see i wrote BRILL win Â£6.20.
Next spin the 0x v 1x, i marked it but decided to not bet, should have, left shop after last win on sheet 1. +Â£35.40.

nottophammer · May 31, 03:40 PM 2015

Hello Winkel
Had these the other day, Jimmie B seen them. Been thinking and looking at those words, watch the crossings and watch what is going on.
Num 0x 1x >1 2x >2 3x >3 4
12 36 1
23 35 2
02 34 3
11 33 4
01 32 5
25 31 6
22 30 7
24 29 8
04 28 9
16 27 10 ok 10 1x's so should watch if dont hit would become a good chance
14 26 11 so 11,1x's, so if carries on very fast trot,could bet for 3 times but
12 26 10 1 1 i didn't
09 25 11 1 1 LOTT 26-9-2 so by 25th spin >1's possibly pick up 2 to 3 more hits? to get this we
34 24 12 1 1 need the 1x's to hit,so those words watch the trot.If we start to bet
11 24 11 2 2 we get 2 chances,but there it is.So just watch
29 23 12 2 2 if we're going to bet the 1x's to increase the >1,need to think of the
07 22 13 2 2 cost which is increasing if the 0x's keep hitting.So watch those 0x's
35 21 14 2 2 0x's now 4out of 5spins or even 6 out of 8. by 25th spin it could look
27 20 15 2 2 18/19,14/15,03/05. So 6 more spins the play safe 1 more spin then
31 19 16 2 2 maybe a bet. Since 10th we've had 8 0x's,so trot is fast. The >1's to
12 19 16 2 1 1 1 me are low. 4 spins to go,think if the 0x's hit be 18 v 17,so bet the 1x's
35 19 15 3 2 1 1 for 16, if miss bet for 17 still be a win if goes that way. but it wins.
30 18 16 3 2 1 1 Now 2 spins to 25th how might they fall,already at 18 so 0x v 1x+2x
25 18 15 4 3 1 1 but we got there fast so the 1x's are a good bet and win. Now is LOTT
23 18 14 5 4 1 1 to good but the answer is did the job. So thinking ahead got us there.

Winkel is the thinking coming

nottophammer · May 31, 05:44 PM 2015

rest of the spins
So trot is meeting LOTT. 15 spins since the 10th finds 9gone of the 15 numbers usually get in 30 spins,dont forget on rng. In next 5 might get 3 more hit, giving 12 in 20 spins. Using LOTT by 37th might see 13/14, 13/14, 09/10 so that means possibly get 5 more 0x's, 1's already there so to are the >1's, so where is it going, best wait
Num 0x 1x >1 2x >2 3x >3 4
23 18 14 5 4 1 1
33 17 15 5 4 1 1 well 0x's falling, 20 units up could bet the 0x's but if wait the crossingbe
17 16 16 5 4 1 1 there,well what you know. 0x v 1x,in the 30 spins said might get 3 and 2
30 16 15 6 5 1 1 have hit so will let go,if its going to get near to LOTT,the >1's need to wake
07 16 14 7 6 1 1 so bet and win,still low,but whats happening,are the 2x's going to hit
02 16 13 8 7 1 1 meaning the 1x's hit again, what about >1V 2x+3x,be ok as long as 1x's
12 16 13 8 7 1 0 1 1 wow if i had the time in the shop,been reading well. Now the 0x's slowed
09 16 12 9 8 1 0 1 1 and longest seen 16 take on rng is 12 spins,with 5 spins to go, if 0x's
36 15 13 9 8 1 0 1 1 hit be near to lott and as can bet for 7 spins it would be bet the 0x's.
06 14 14 9 8 1 0 1 1 0x V 1x those lott is where it should be in 3 more spins, do we bet the 0x
34 14 13 10 9 1 0 1 1 yes miss,where is it going bet the 0x still be on track.
32 13 14 10 9 1 0 1 1 hit. Now that still looks like LOTT,with 1 spin to go.
36 13 13 11 10 1 0 1 1

even thou trigger showing i left shop here as was Â£14.60 up, and not playing like here, this is just me trying to watch how the trot is going. As said if i played like this in the shop would have made more, but must remember LOTT is only for reference its not written in stone? i'll let Winkel or Azim answer that.
As said before with my records (avg for numbers to hit) and GUT the two give good indicaters to possible betting opportunities.

nottophammer · May 31, 06:53 PM 2015

Evening Winkel is there any hard fast rules on law OTT.

nottophammer · Jun 01, 08:07 AM 2015

Hi members
Some one asked anyone play Gut in B+M, well here is the Paper tracker i use in licensed betting shops,so should be ok for B+M

Blue line indicate 10 spins, Winkels LOTT in grey at 13,25,37 the numbers to cross out to show what hit on and laid out in columns so you can go down C1 up C2 and down column 3.

Try a few dry runs you might get to see and feel how the game is progressing.

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Holy Grail By Winkel.