Holy Grail By Winkel.

[thelaw]

What is the definition of proof that something works?  I win a million dollars betting one way, is that proof?  How do I prove it? Why should I prove it?  What right do you have to demand proof something works?  You have not paid any money for the information provided.

Again I really, really like MrJ's philosophy, take it or leave it.  If I am not selling you anything and freely lay out a method for you to use and you don't want to try it or believe me when I say it works, too bad.

Winkel layed out a way to play, it works for me and many others.  I am happy with that.  I don't use it anymore, but not because it doesn't work.

Thanks for letting us know that you found a winning system!

[nottophammer]

Need anymore

[Azim]

Here's the problem with GUT:

Winkel and others never give rules for the system.

Instead, they say that there are multiple ways to play the crossings, where some will succeed while others will fail.

If they had beat the game using math as you wrote above, then it would be easy to explain the system with hard and fast rules.

GUT has yet to be presented as a proven long-term winning system. If it had, then some on this forum would have adopted it and played it for profit.

...............I'm still waiting for this to happen.........

Now, cue the excuses :

+ you just want everything handed to you

+ I win with the system consistently, but I don't want to prove it ()

+ I've already presented enough of the system for everyone to figure it out (again....no one coming forward with proof of long-term wins)

Other "Winning" Strategies:

Pattern Breaker

Pinwheel

Code 4

Target Betting

Matrix

Number of Long-term proven winners for all of the systems above : 00

Why don't I ask you a simple question, what have you read so far about GUT?
Have you done any testing your self. First post of the thread has links for you to read.
If you can't do that, GUT, honestly is beyond your intelligence.

I will repeat it to you, to become a doctor, you don't need someone to prove to you that the University is good. You have smart doctors who have come out of a 5th or 6th ranked universities.

Well bottom line, you cant sit at home register at a university(in this case Forum) expect to have your hand held(Read the thread and understand it).

[nottophammer]

On the other hand:
If you would have decided to play the 12 once-appearers what would have happened?:
31   13   12   12
25   12   13   12 loss -12
27   12   13   12 loss -12
17   11   14   12 loss -12 and now the difference is "2" so stopp playing and look for another "crossing-situation"
27   11   14   12

The above is reply 26 on VLS

Now 13-12-12 was asked by TCS.

Well heres my thinking the 13 0X's is the bet, but heres the but, 12-12 is a bet as well, so here you bet both 25 units on two different situations.
It looks like its a winner +11 units.

[winkel]

Absolutely false.

The multiple GUT threads have not described the rules of the betting method, hence why I posted a response to this in the first place. If there were specific hard and fast rules, I would be happy to test it to see if it works. But this is the problem; no clear rules, so you can't effectively test it. I read through the thread thoroughly, but stopped when I realized that there were pieces of the method missing.........where people should make "judgement calls". This is simple math, not a piece of conceptual art open to interpretation.

Here we have definitely a proof:

You know nothing about GUT.

There is a tool cold "Clinical Bet Advisor". You can download and run tests as many as you want.
The problem is: It tests "clinical" it doesn´t make decisions as man would do. To code it you would need kind of AI.

and more than 3 people told you its winning. What more do you need? How many people should testify? Give an answer! (or shut up with your lies.)

[RayManZ]

Can you win with GUT? Yes.
IsGUT hard to learn? Yes.
Can you make long term profit with GUT? Yes.

[Turner]

Correct me if I am wrong.....
GUT ( to me) seems to be like a compass or barometer to aid you to make improved bet selection

The key to winning is improving the bet selection

Everyone seens to want a hard and fast algorithm ....I think the idea of GUT is to put you in a position....when its time to bet.....of having an informed choice....which leads to an improved bet selection

I could be wrong.

[winkel]

Correct me if I am wrong.....
GUT ( to me) seems to be like a compass or barometer to aid you to make improved bet selection

The key to winning is improving the bet selection

Everyone seens to want a hard and fast algorithm ....I think the idea of GUT is to put you in a position....when its time to bet.....of having an informed choice....which leads to an improved bet selection

I could be wrong.

You are absolutely right.

thats why i call it a "strategy" not a "system"

[Turner]

You are absolutely right.

thats why i call it a "strategy" not a "system"

Ahhhh...thats good then

Perhaps what I said may help people understand if its for them or not and stop interupting the posts.

(Its almost AP....without being AP....if you get me)

[Azim]

Turner,

Very well said...

[RouletteGhost]

Ahhhh...thats good then

Perhaps what I said may help people understand if its for them or not and stop interupting the posts.

(Its almost AP....without being AP....if you get me)

Couldnt agree more. Wish u said that in grassroots.....

[thelaw]

So just to sum it all up:

+ GUT is a strategy not a system to help create a better situation where a player can make a more advantages bet selection

+ Not AP, but close to AP (not sure what this means......it either gives you an advantage or it doesn't)

+ Although many players claim to have used it successfully in the past, no member is currently using it to create a superior bet selection with long-term results (publicly at least)

+ There is no consensus on how to execute it practically to create a long-term advantage

+ On a Forum that's entirely dedicated to beating the game of Roulette, nobody, in 7 years, has bothered to show actual proof that GUT provides an effective advantage long-term, and instead have moved on to other systems and strategies that fail time and time again

This all started with my response to Nothammer's claim that the "math guys" had beat the game with GUT, to which I called BS. Great claims require great proof. When NH made that comment, nobody bothered to correct or clarify the statement, but then got their panties in a bunch when I said that there was no proof that it provided an advantage long-term.

When anyone is ready to show proof that GUT creates a statistical advantage long-term in actual play, I'm all ears.

Until then...........I'll leave you guys to it.

Thanks for the great debate!

[RayManZ]

What kind of proof are you looking for? Someone who has records of all their sessions? Someone who shares their personal info of bank of casino statements?

You say you want proof? Alot of people say it works... Even long  term. Yet you want more proof...

Maybe you should just start reading all the info about GUT. Come back when you're done. If you still have questions at that moment we will discus them like normal people.

We all still play GUT and it works for us. It could work for you but you don't want to work for it. You want a system. Not a strategy.

[Turner]

Until then...........I'll leave you guys to it.

With respect to Law, I would like to think he is a man of his word

[nottophammer]

I ran about 500 000 cycles of 37 spins and came up with the following:

(Number on left is number of unique numbers and next number is how many times a spin cycle had exactly that many unique numbers in the test)

37 spin cycle:

15   1
16   12
17   202
18   1417
19   6020
20   18309
21   41304
22   73951
23   98780
24   102814
25   80164
26   47276
27   20934
28   6706
29   1685
30   349
31   35
32   5
So 500,000 37 spin cycles produced 102,814 sets of 24 unique. Is it okay to say 20%.

If another set of 500,000 was done, will it be 20% again? Will it always be 20%
In GUT its said at spin 13 we could see 26-9-2, well i've been at spin 13 many times seeing 24-13-0, so would you not now bet the 1X's. Look how many times 15 unique appear.

from way back