Holy Grail By Winkel.

[nottophammer]

Where are Forum's most experienced members? by thelaw.
I wont post in the mutual admiration society thread. Soggett is rereading GUT, good.
Gut is a fine stratergy for the chance to bet. Admittedly theres lots of advice on what to bet, when not to bet,etc,etc. But the biggest part to me is being able to read the trot.
So where does the trot start?
spin 1, the 1st one hit, there you have it,what do you get from this, a possible, more than 1hit (>1) or another one hit (1x).
So as the non hit (0x) hit, the trot is revealing its self.

Now to below
Wait for the crossing, does it say if 2 crossings dont bet? okay waiting for crossings seemed to be the stratergy,but didn't Winkel say theres more chances to bet, but that a higher level.
Shame he felt he could not reveal more,but like i said below, the chance is to bet both crossings, with the non hit winning.
With 25 non hit, i'd say we are at around the 37-40th spin, dont believe me have a look in Jackpot joy topic at the sheets posted, think of the trot, think of 15 non hit in 30 spins

On the other hand:
If you would have decided to play the 12 once-appearers what would have happened?:
31   13   12   12
25   12   13   12 loss -12
27   12   13   12 loss -12
17   11   14   12 loss -12 and now the difference is "2" so stopp playing and look for another "crossing-situation"
27   11   14   12

The above is reply 26 on VLS

Now 13-12-12 was asked by TCS.

Well heres my thinking the 13 0X's is the bet, but heres the but, 12-12 is a bet as well, so here you bet both 25 units on two different situations.
It looks like its a winner +11 units.

[thelaw]

Where are Forum's most experienced members? by thelaw.
I wont post in the mutual admiration society thread. Soggett is rereading GUT, good.
Gut is a fine stratergy for the chance to bet. Admittedly theres lots of advice on what to bet, when not to bet,etc,etc. But the biggest part to me is being able to read the trot.
So where does the trot start?
spin 1, the 1st one hit, there you have it,what do you get from this, a possible, more than 1hit (>1) or another one hit (1x).
So as the non hit (0x) hit, the trot is revealing its self.

Now to below
Wait for the crossing, does it say if 2 crossings dont bet? okay waiting for crossings seemed to be the stratergy,but didn't Winkel say theres more chances to bet, but that a higher level.
Shame he felt he could not reveal more,but like i said below, the chance is to bet both crossings, with the non hit winning.
With 25 non hit, i'd say we are at around the 37-40th spin, dont believe me have a look in Jackpot joy topic at the sheets posted, think of the trot, think of 15 non hit in 30 spins

.......but didn't you have a pretty sizable losing session on the Jackpot Joy thread using GUT?

[nottophammer]

I dont use GUT on KTF.
KTF is about just betting non hits, the trot knowledge comes from learning GUT, using average.
The biggest help is 15 non hit in 30 spins. Everybody will have learnt their own way for seeing the trot.

When KTF lost it was over 1200 units up,it ran out of spins, but even if you finished where the spins ran out you'd still be +600 units.
Where i'm posting now is still using Jackpot 247.com spins and has not lost sinse that lost, its only posting 1 game a day.

I think the part you miss in KTF is the taking part of  winning 50/60 units, theres been plenty of times i've explained why i'd stop and take less, one example is a fast trot.
Take today there was enough spins to start a second game, if i was playing on Ghosts machine of death, RNG i'd collect 60 spins for records leave the shop and start a new game.
So look at the second game,i would stop at 5th bet, thats 14th non hit +50, why stop, theres been only 1 repeat so i'd expect to see repeats come. This is a fast game 19 non hits in 22 spins, think that would be classed a fast trot.

If you care to track the 82 spins and mark off the non hit you will see theres only 1 non hit left #29

[TurboGenius]

After skimming through this briefly - it looks almost like what I was doing and posting about in 2004.
Anyone is free to look up the post on GG and evaluate.
As said in another thread - most everyone is running in circles and looping back to what's been posted (as a 'new idea') a long long time ago...
Just my 2 cents (retail value of 3 cents)

[nottophammer]

After skimming through this briefly - it looks almost like what I was doing and posting about in 2004.
Anyone is free to look up the post on GG and evaluate.
As said in another thread - most everyone is running in circles and looping back to what's been posted (as a 'new idea') a long long time ago...
Just my 2 cents (retail value of 3 cents)

So are you saying Winkel tweeked what you where doing in 2004,to claim GUT as his own.

[MrJ]

So are you saying Winkel tweeked what you where doing in 2004,to claim GUT as his own.

I cant answer for him but I will say this......quite a few people (myself included) will come up with a method NOT KNOWING one similar has been published 20 years prior. I dont think its copying if you dont know about it. I have at least 4 different versions of "complete a street" (constantly tweaking it in order to improve it) and it was pointed out to me years ago (with link provided) that I copied it.

Never knew about it, never read about it prior.

Ken

[TurboGenius]

So are you saying Winkel tweeked what you where doing in 2004,to claim GUT as his own.

I'm not saying anything lol - Just making the point that given enough time, the same ideas come up and are worked on and tested/tweaked/forgotten.
12 years later someone else has the same idea and the process begins anew.
That's not how we move towards beating this game though, it's simply going in slow circles.
If the math says that 2 + 2 = 4 then over enough time you can make the most complex
equation that says the same thing. It's easier to just accept that the answer is 4 no matter how
you come to it and work on the next math problem.

[MrJ]

"going in slow circles" >> Perfect.

Ken

[nottophammer]

stainless steel

[nottophammer]

After skimming through this briefly - it looks almost like what I was doing and posting about in 2004.
Anyone is free to look up the post on GG and evaluate.
As said in another thread - most everyone is running in circles and looping back to what's been posted (as a 'new idea') a long long time ago...
Just my 2 cents (retail value of 3 cents)

I can appreciate the above as we are human, all have a brain, obviously some better than others. So i guess over time ideas will enter your/my head and we think yes, this is it, so back in 2004 i guess it could look like something someone might have been working on, even you

[NextYear]

If somewhere would exist Database of systems, with final thoughts about it (with updated comments from members), we could just continue testing the ones that show potential.

In a perfect world we could make it...

[soggett]

Where are Forum's most experienced members? by thelaw.
I wont post in the mutual admiration society thread. Soggett is rereading GUT, good.
Gut is a fine stratergy for the chance to bet. Admittedly theres lots of advice on what to bet, when not to bet,etc,etc. But the biggest part to me is being able to read the trot.
So where does the trot start?
spin 1, the 1st one hit, there you have it,what do you get from this, a possible, more than 1hit (>1) or another one hit (1x).
So as the non hit (0x) hit, the trot is revealing its self.

Now to below
Wait for the crossing, does it say if 2 crossings dont bet? okay waiting for crossings seemed to be the stratergy,but didn't Winkel say theres more chances to bet, but that a higher level.
Shame he felt he could not reveal more,but like i said below, the chance is to bet both crossings, with the non hit winning.
With 25 non hit, i'd say we are at around the 37-40th spin, dont believe me have a look in Jackpot joy topic at the sheets posted, think of the trot, think of 15 non hit in 30 spins

thank you for this

I see the thread has been revisited (maybe because of what I said in other thread) so I would like to post a few words.

I have read the GUT thread for the fourth time now.
The 80 page strategy I can't remember when I first read it but I did not get it at all. Some time passed, I gained new knowledge and said to myself maybe try again - I got bits and pieces but still couldn't understand. Third time I read it when Azim pointed it out to me over e-mail and I still could not get my head around it. I watched the videos every time too.
The other day I was brainstorming and remembered the GUT and said what the hell lets give it a shot. I read all 80 pages on the main topic, I then read 24 pages of test results that winkel posted. I watched TCS videos on youtube (the 2 hour one and the 40 minute one). Then I read this topic. And this time something clicked.
What I think did the trick (maybe someone else finds this interesting) is two things;
1. I copied what ever I thought was important from what winkel wrote like rules, examples , etc, into a txt file so I can read the it whenever I need to, and maybe more important
2. I took a piece of paper with squares (like the one we used in school for math or such) and I draw everything from a test winkel made. I took a random 50 spins he tested and draw the lines "0", "1", ">1"... This is when it clicked for me but that is because I am more of a visual guy, I learn better when I see it for myself. And when I could see the crossings, the way the lines go up, down, it all made sense.

I will add that winkel made a few mistakes, mentioned some things then not mention them again. Maybe because he was mad at people, I dont know.
The point I wanted to make, I can now chart all that I need, I have rules that I need to memorize, and I need to test, practice. When I get the hang of it I will do a large test and post my results here.
The first 50 spins I actually charted just today and it was a very slow trot. I am happy that I can see and understand that it is slow. Somehow it makes sense to me. That doesn't mean it will work for me, doesn't mean I will make millions, I just wanted to show what I said in the other thread - that my thinking now is different than before and I can see things I didn't see before. With age and comes knowledge, with knowledge comes wisdom (or something like that )

[Azim]

Hi nottop,

thats what I´ve always told: watch the crossings and watch what ist going on. If a crossing comes up and you don´t trust it, the next idea is to bet the other chance.

I never had a chance to explain this to this point, because of too many enemies. But as you found by yourself: This ist the chance to bet nearly every spin, if you can detect, what is going on.

BUT: You have to be aware: There is no automatism in it. You can be wrong, Your ability to make the right decisions might be missing. So learn to stop the game. Learn to jump to another sequence and so on.

br
winkel

Here is what he agreed.  I dare any math guy on the forum to come out and argue this point. 

People think they are smarter than others because they play with high value chips.

Winkel,

Please don't take me wrong. You know I am on your side.

Now, hear me out why I made that conclusion. I know, I haven't proved it. Because I don't know the basics.
Playing with number's if a challenge for me.

If I was using 3 SD trackers on this number's. I will use your case 111 Tracker's.

You do agree every tracker will have a different result set?

The trot 0 is sleeper's if I was able to track 111 tracker's without difficulty.

Now taking 111 different result set from all 111 tracker's. Using unions, intersection and difference.( I have used difference so everyone understands its actually called complement)
One can reduce the number's to bet on?

Why can't I do that, have you looked at that?

Because of some non-educated or math guys who think they know it all on the forum, a lot of good stuff was left out.

Once again. Read between the lines I have posted in the past and try and understand what was been said.

I have said this over and over.  To become a doctor you just can't read books. You have to do some experiments on animals as well.

[RouletteGhost]

Because of some non-educated or math guys who think they know it all on the forum, a lot of good stuff was left out.

They destroy the hobby for hobbyists so people leave........

[nottophammer]

thank you for this

I see the thread has been revisited (maybe because of what I said in other thread) so I would like to post a few words.

I have read the GUT thread for the fourth time now.
The 80 page strategy I can't remember when I first read it but I did not get it at all. Some time passed, I gained new knowledge and said to myself maybe try again - I got bits and pieces but still couldn't understand. Third time I read it when Azim pointed it out to me over e-mail and I still could not get my head around it. I watched the videos every time too.
The other day I was brainstorming and remembered the GUT and said what the hell lets give it a shot. I read all 80 pages on the main topic, I then read 24 pages of test results that winkel posted. I watched TCS videos on youtube (the 2 hour one and the 40 minute one). Then I read this topic. And this time something clicked.
What I think did the trick (maybe someone else finds this interesting) is two things;
1. I copied what ever I thought was important from what winkel wrote like rules, examples , etc, into a txt file so I can read the it whenever I need to, and maybe more important
2. I took a piece of paper with squares (like the one we used in school for math or such) and I draw everything from a test winkel made. I took a random 50 spins he tested and draw the lines "0", "1", ">1"... This is when it clicked for me but that is because I am more of a visual guy, I learn better when I see it for myself. And when I could see the crossings, the way the lines go up, down, it all made sense.

I will add that winkel made a few mistakes, mentioned some things then not mention them again. Maybe because he was mad at people, I dont know.
The point I wanted to make, I can now chart all that I need, I have rules that I need to memorize, and I need to test, practice. When I get the hang of it I will do a large test and post my results here.
The first 50 spins I actually charted just today and it was a very slow trot. I am happy that I can see and understand that it is slow. Somehow it makes sense to me. That doesn't mean it will work for me, doesn't mean I will make millions, I just wanted to show what I said in the other thread - that my thinking now is different than before and I can see things I didn't see before. With age and comes knowledge, with knowledge comes wisdom (or something like that )

Glad Azim put that quote up from may 28th
Like you i got the graph paper out and drew the spins as they game, watching 0x,1x and >1.
Soggett if you look back at some old replies you will see to the left of the paper tracker KTF this shows how the non hit, hit, then the repeats,i'd compare both sets of figures as the game unfolds, which is the trot. I dont think with the computer tracker you get the feel of the trot,it just says theres the crossing,but you need to know what the 0x's and 1x's plus the >1's are doing.