Bet Voyager

[Azim]

European RNG roulette, the very 1st one on the roulette page (top left) havent looked at it for a while but that's the one, the NoZero is 5c min

The best I've had was 2 days, the worst was 8 days but I asked for it on a friday evening, not that that should matter in my opinion.

I have only ever deposited 25 euros at a time, lost it many times from dumba$$ method play, as I've stated for the last year/ish no mechanical play will ever win, my opinion of course so I play manually as described many many times in my responses over the last year. Which irritates me imensley as I build bots and would love to let the bot play but as I never use the same MM after certain criteria I have not managed to put that into a bot, the reason I am letting the bank grow is so I can play bigger units eventually, currently using 0.50c chips, target is 20 units per session, none of that loss limit nonesense, if I struggle I grind it out, some sessions can last a couple of hours some are over in a matter of minutes.

I've not yet had to contact support asking where my money is.

And for the record, I use Skrill, never had a problem with them either, from BV -> Skrill -> my bank account on average 4 / 5 days.

Not sure because of the law, they don't let me deposit anymore. I called up my bank, they said nothing has changed from their part.
Wonder if it's something else, however no response from Skrill.

Purely because of the SHA + NoZero = true 50/50 not available anywhere else, unless you know differently, I am only talking about RNG, I don't trust live casino feeds from the east as far as I am concerned BV is just the middle man on that one.

PS I always set the string of numbers per set to 60, as you will know now that means when I play all those 60 spins are set before I start so they can't cheat me.
PPS I have run a bot against the SHA to test if they cheat, that was a few years ago though but it was always correct.

[foogus]

I prefer their live roulette, but after losing more than 10000EU for a few weeks and being offered 10EU compensation for the stuffup, it has made me a bit wary.  They no longer have the majority of my winnings thankfully, but I will probably continue to use them with a lower bankroll and build it up again.  Like Superman I only made a small deposit (50EU) and built it to what disappeared in a few seconds.

I also agree with Superman about the honesty of their RNG, when I use it I set the the string of numbers per set to 100, because that is the number of spins I aim for with my sessions.

[Roochla]

Can everyone log in using the new software?.....Is it just me?

[ausguy]

OK Superman - Euro 1c wheel top left got it. I also had a more detailed look at their SHA randomness control & how they rely on randomness only to beat the player & not manipulate the results during each spin. That's all good & I'll keep that as an option to use a bit of other casino profit to one day maybe do some plays ? I don't like Skrill/Moneybookers as I for me it's an unnecessary 3rd party middleman thingo.

For live play & as BV is using Party Casinos dealer video feed with BV at a lesser net rate would it not then make it a better MM choice to play at Party Casino ? Also remember we are comparing the prices of the same apples vs the same apples here.

I just checked the bet rates again at both BV & Party. For inside plays Party is way out in front @ 1 - 250 for any single number vs BV's 1 -50.

For Dozens/Columns & EC, Party has the same rates @ 2 min to 2,000 maximum. BV has D/C @ 1 - 600 & 1 - 1,000 for the EC's.

Once the minimum bet gets to 2 & above Party has a significant 3 & 1/3 advantage progression wise on the 2 : 1 bets & double the rate on the EC's. This fact alone should be of high importance to progression players ?

Also a factor is the currency a player is using.

I notice BV seems to operate only in Euro currency ?  Party has a choice of 5 = GBP, Euro & 3 different $$$$. With PC's A/C rules the currency a player starts the A/C which is "locked in" permanently for the life of that account.

I play PC in GBP which gives me around an 85% exchange rate boost to any winnings on the way back to me in OZ. As an example to BR an amount of  100GBP will cost me about $190AUD including fees. Say I get on a PC win streak & the balance gets to 300GBP & I withdraw 200GBP, I might see about $370 come back to me (bank fees paid) plus I still have my 100GBP in my play A/C to try & grow my wins.

PC have monthly withdraw limits depending on play throughs. Low end max. is 20KUSD to 50KUSD.  The high roller end is $100K USD plus which unfortunately won't involve most players, I would assume ? It's a bit of a PC spin on the currency limits as they make it LOOK more by having the limits in USD when US players can't benefit from any plays being blocked from off shore A/C's. If playing in GBP or Euro you take a "haircut restriction" on the USD step down rate if you happen to be "rolling in the lush green clover".

BV only mentions a 5,000Euro withdaw cap per 24 hr period. So that seems to mean, in theory, that with a more than impressive bet success, around 150,000Euro could be withdrawn in any 1 month x 12 = 1.8 million in a year. That would never happen as they'd bring that other T & C rule "we reserve the right to refuse any player...." etc. etc.

Overall though even if a player "ONLY" won $20,000 USD in a month that opens up a multitude of "investment" choices that weren't even on the radar at lower A/C balances.

Looking at the credit/debit card deal BV uses Skrill/Moneybookers only whereas PC allows direct bank to casino A/C transfers. I have a choice of using my Mastercard debit card or my Visa debit card but you must always straight line the deposit/withdraw pathway = no cross transfers.

Payouts maybe a little quicker @ PC going off Supermans reveals ? Probably not much in it overall ? 

AZIM - Blocked deposits have happened to me a couple of times. Both times it was the casino revising its business operations in that it pulled it's account access to Australia that it prevoiusly had. They both did email me to that effect. It's no point in contacting your bank as they'd have no idea. Go into your casinos T & C's & see if your country is now in their no play zone ? Sometimes agreements change & casinos respond accordingly. Failing that you would have to get the casino customer service or admin. to try & explain it ?

Once (about 18 months ago) at Smart Live Casino, after many past direct Mastercard & Visa card (debit cards) deposits, one day both cards for a deposit got declined (there was plenty of funds in the card A/C to easily cover the attempted transfer). The casino said check with the card companies, the card companies said do it through your bank, I went to my bank & they said they'd look into it for me, after X no. of days they emailed me & advised that the card providers said was no probs this end with the cards (as it turned out there was = a commission dispute between casino & card providers) to check with the casino ?

Talk about being ****ed about by experts as I was back to square one. Live chat was clueless (useless as tits on a bull) so I emailed Smart Live admin. & eventually they came back & said that the cards I was using were temporarily unavailable for casino deposit use & they hoped that the cards would be available for use soon. (I viewed their spin on both sides of this deal = we both are greedy on commission rates here so it's a standoff but ***k the customer they can use other options [even though they may be less viable ?])
In the meantime they steered me to Skrill/Moneybookers. I see that Mastercard & Visa are again back on SL's A/C options but in the lull I found Party Casino which have far better play value. EC's 2 - 2,000 VS 10 - 1,000. I now play at PC. I haven't played at Smart since the card ***k up thingo yonks ago.   

[miajade1983]

Hi just me again so in simple terms is Bet Voyager worth using or is it just the same as all the other casinos out there. Are there any good reviews of bet voyager

[foogus]

Ausguy the card problem is still there at Smart Live Casino, you cant deposit with Visa or Mastercard if you live in Australia.  Last answer I got from my inquiries was we are looking into it and will get back to you, meanwhile use Skrill (not likely), that was about a month ago, still nothing heard since.

[ausguy]

Foogus - Smart Live Chat customer service just now advised me that Visa & Mastercard are valid for deposits at Smart Live. I didn't specifically ask them if OZ was blocked for use ? So you may be correct with your info. ?

Not that it worries me as I don't & haven't played SL for 18 months or more as there's better value elsewhere for my outside plays.  EG Party Casino.

I brushed Skrill/Moneybookers a little after switching to Party Casino. Party has never had any barriers on my Debit cards, deposits are always fast & efficient. Direct deposits both in & out beats 3rd party "middlemen" systems everytime in my view.

Party Casino bills themselves as the World's largest on line casino so perhaps size helps to eliminate those niggling problems that forum people have been having with Smart Live (card restrictions) & BetVoyager (missing account monies, with poor communications) ?

[Azim]

AZIM - Blocked deposits have happened to me a couple of times. Both times it was the casino revising its business operations in that it pulled it's account access to Australia that it prevoiusly had. They both did email me to that effect. It's no point in contacting your bank as they'd have no idea. Go into your casinos T & C's & see if your country is now in their no play zone ? Sometimes agreements change & casinos respond accordingly. Failing that you would have to get the casino customer service or admin. to try & explain it ?

Once (about 18 months ago) at Smart Live Casino, after many past direct Mastercard & Visa card (debit cards) deposits, one day both cards for a deposit got declined (there was plenty of funds in the card A/C to easily cover the attempted transfer). The casino said check with the card companies, the card companies said do it through your bank, I went to my bank & they said they'd look into it for me, after X no. of days they emailed me & advised that the card providers said was no probs this end with the cards (as it turned out there was = a commission dispute between casino & card providers) to check with the casino ?

Talk about being ****ed about by experts as I was back to square one. Live chat was clueless (useless as tits on a bull) so I emailed Smart Live admin. & eventually they came back & said that the cards I was using were temporarily unavailable for casino deposit use & they hoped that the cards would be available for use soon. (I viewed their spin on both sides of this deal = we both are greedy on commission rates here so it's a standoff but ***k the customer they can use other options [even though they may be less viable ?])
In the meantime they steered me to Skrill/Moneybookers. I see that Mastercard & Visa are again back on SL's A/C options but in the lull I found Party Casino which have far better play value. EC's 2 - 2,000 VS 10 - 1,000. I now play at PC. I haven't played at Smart since the card ***k up thingo yonks ago.   

I am having issues online,  I have just cashed out my initial deposits everywhere I have my bot playing.

I just tried to play again and Party Casino now have me down for $1.00 minimum inside bet from $0.10.

Bet voyager has Skrill which has refused my deposit.

Dublin Bet I now can't see 0.10 live table it's giving me 1.00 minimum bet.

Not sure what to make of this?

[ausguy]

Azim - It seems they've (the casinos) ID'd your bot play & invoked restrictions as per their T & C's. They say things in their T & C's such as they reserve the right to alter or restrict player conditions on various games and/or close your account as they deem necessary without the need or requirement to give a reason.

Party states things like - zero tolerence towards inappropriate play.... game manipulation...at our sole discretion...SOFTWARE - We are committed to preventing the use of software programs, A. I. Artificial Intelligence. By increasing your minimum bet by x10 they have reduced your progression range by a large margin. Ditto for Dublin bet.

Dublin has things like - The company reserves the right to decline to accept bets without providing any reason..... Results of games may be declared void if we determine the use of software assisted methods or techniques.

Just checking BV & they seem to be a little vague on their front page T & C's ?  They also have more T & C's on their Betcruise page.  The closest I can see is that they can exclude a player if they deem your play to have been a dishonest act ? Although they don't define what they mean by a dishonest act ? Before that is a part that says they reserve the right to withhold any payouts for 1 month on large winnings while they do an analysis of all the plays. Again they don't define what they regard as a large win ?

At BV do you have any money in the A/C to see if you can still play there without the need to make a deposit like you tried through Skrill ?
You could then try & build the balance up & keep playing that way but if they are blocking your deposits it would be likely they would eventually flick you & your A/C ?

The common theme here seems too coincidental that 3 casinos have altered your play freedom all around the same period of time? This to me seems like they may have a central reporting system (secret casino business), a bit like a credit reporting agency, that I.D's your play method & so enables them to take whatever action they deem necessary to lessen the  threat you (& many others) present to casino profits ?

[Azim]

Looks like it. However, I don't have any balance on Bet Voyager.

After this, I have decided to give up on online gambling with my latest bot.

I still have 5 players playing with my first bot. That hasn't changed. 

Party Casino did that to me a while back.  After logging in with a 3-4 month absence, I was able to use the 0.10 limit.
Will have to wait and do it again.

Time will tell.

[teo]

Reading your posts guys,I ask myself once more,are you so naive or really idiots,playing on line.
You better give your money to some human organisations then been taken from mafia.

[6th-sense]

TEO  a couple of your systems u recommend playing on bv no zero lol....remember 

[ausguy]

Azim - From what I see from Party is that they deem an account as inactive after 12 weeks so the wait you mention 3 - 4 months may allow the resets you mention ?

I'd imagine with the volume turnover of plays they would rely on software detection scanning for things like bot play. Like anywhere, they would then look at your account history & as your bot play was previously pinged they'd probably invoke restrictions ?

From your actions it appears that you put lttle value in Emailing the casinos admin. & asking why they have changed the minimum levels ? Also from their T & C's they may not/do not need to give any reasons ?

Is manual non bot play with higher stakes a viable option ?

[ausguy]

teo - you display  a large amount of LACK OF CREDIBILITY by posting your last sweeping comments ? On the Hot Copper Investment forum comments similar in tone to yours get flicked rather quickly by the Moderator & flagged as FLAMING & of negative value to the forum ?

Care to show some evidence to back up your generalisation about the wisdom of online play ? Like there's a few different issues here.

1. Are Azims bot play restrictions cause for concern ? 2. Is RNG play workable & worthwhile ? 3. Is Live dealer play (NON BOT) viable & profitable ?  On any live dealer wins I've always been paid & in a few weeks I'll be back playing live dealer roulette at Party Casino. As per MM ideas I'm saving up a larger BR, then I'll be back at it.

So in the not too distant future we/I shall see if what you assert is either FACT or FICTION ?

[Serendipity]

Looks like it. However, I don't have any balance on Bet Voyager.

After this, I have decided to give up on online gambling with my latest bot.

I still have 5 players playing with my first bot. That hasn't changed. 

Party Casino did that to me a while back.  After logging in with a 3-4 month absence, I was able to use the 0.10 limit.
Will have to wait and do it again.

Time will tell.

Hi there Azim,

   Can you tell us what kind of bots are you running (excel, rx bot, etc).

thx