9 number method

[wiggy]

I ran a quick 50 game test just out of curiosity. There were far too many back to back -108 unit losing games for my liking. I can't even say I really like the philosophy behind the strategy. You end up keeping on the losing sets (up to 5) and then you go to another set after the first winner. I would rather play the complete opposite. 

[RouletteGhost]

I remember this one from ages back. The original creator was called Jed Cannon.

If you go to loothog.com, you will find the Cannon system and there is a 'play' tab on that page which you can press to play as many virtual games as you like and see the results.

cheers

Very cool

I think it may be luck but all the times i tried it very little loss or win a lot. No big loss

Or play the opposite lol

[wiggy]

RouletteGhost,

There was a system back in the day called the Garden System. I tested it with good results and here are somebody else's long term results.

HAND TEST RESULTS

SPINS: 54,008
TOTAL SESSIONS: 1,256
WON SESSIONS: 991 (Every won session is +12)
LOST SESSIONS (-12): 181
LOST SESSIONS (-84): 52
LOST SESSIONS (-96): 32
TOTAL BALANCE: +2,472


LONG TERM COMPUTER TEST RESULTS
TEST 1:
SPINS: 115,000
TOTAL SESSIONS: 2,753
WON SESSIONS (+12): 2,211
LOST SESSIONS (-12): 341
LOST SESSIONS (-84): 132
LOST SESSIONS (-96): 69

TOTAL BALANCE: +4,728


TEST 2:
SPINS: 80,000
TOTAL SESSIONS: 2,215
WON SESSIONS (+12): 1,771
LOST SESSIONS (-12): 291
LOST SESSIONS (-84): 102
LOST SESSIONS (-96): 51
TOTAL BALANCE: +4,296


TEST 3:
SPINS: 223,000
TOTAL SESSIONS: 6,015
SESSIONS WON (+12): 4,804
SESSIONS LOST (-12): 804
SESSIONS LOST (-84): 265
SESSIONS LOST (-96): 142
TOTAL BALANCE: + 12,108


TEST 4:

SPINS: 325,148
TOTAL SESSIONS: 8,977
SESSIONS WON (+12): 6,967
SESSIONS LOST (-12): 1,459
SESSIONS LOST (-84): 369
SESSIONS LOST (-96): 182
TOTAL BALANCE: + 17,628

I obviously can't verify whether these results were true or not.  If you want, I can post the system on this thread or start a new topic.

cheers

[RouletteGhost]

RouletteGhost,

There was a system back in the day called the Garden System. I tested it with good results and here are somebody else's long term results.

HAND TEST RESULTS

SPINS: 54,008
TOTAL SESSIONS: 1,256
WON SESSIONS: 991 (Every won session is +12)
LOST SESSIONS (-12): 181
LOST SESSIONS (-84): 52
LOST SESSIONS (-96): 32
TOTAL BALANCE: +2,472


LONG TERM COMPUTER TEST RESULTS
TEST 1:
SPINS: 115,000
TOTAL SESSIONS: 2,753
WON SESSIONS (+12): 2,211
LOST SESSIONS (-12): 341
LOST SESSIONS (-84): 132
LOST SESSIONS (-96): 69

TOTAL BALANCE: +4,728


TEST 2:
SPINS: 80,000
TOTAL SESSIONS: 2,215
WON SESSIONS (+12): 1,771
LOST SESSIONS (-12): 291
LOST SESSIONS (-84): 102
LOST SESSIONS (-96): 51
TOTAL BALANCE: +4,296


TEST 3:
SPINS: 223,000
TOTAL SESSIONS: 6,015
SESSIONS WON (+12): 4,804
SESSIONS LOST (-12): 804
SESSIONS LOST (-84): 265
SESSIONS LOST (-96): 142
TOTAL BALANCE: + 12,108


TEST 4:

SPINS: 325,148
TOTAL SESSIONS: 8,977
SESSIONS WON (+12): 6,967
SESSIONS LOST (-12): 1,459
SESSIONS LOST (-84): 369
SESSIONS LOST (-96): 182
TOTAL BALANCE: + 17,628

I obviously can't verify whether these results were true or not.  If you want, I can post the system on this thread or start a new topic.

cheers

yea post it here

always looking to test new things

i think i saw the garden system on gamblers glen once before?? i dont know

[wiggy]

It's long.....but at least very detailed.

Anyway, enjoy. I am going to take another look myself. I was only reminded of it thinking back to the Cannon System.



The Garden System

EVERY SESSION CONSISTS OF TWO PARTS:


1) The Selection Process.

2) The Playing Period.


1) The Selection Process:


This is the first thing you do to start a session.

If there are scoreboards in the tables where you play, it will save you about 40 to 60 minutes of the selection process.

Use the table's scoreboard and copy the numbers on paper, or write them down as they hit if there is not scoreboard.

You must write the numbers in the same order they hit.

When a number repeats, circle it.

What you need is a group of 24 different numbers, with at least 10 * repeaters.( see UPDATE ) It could take from 34 to 56 outcomes to find a group like this.

Most times it takes about 50 outcomes

Example:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11

x x x x

x x

x


In this example we have finished a selection process successfully.

There are 10 repeaters, numbers 31, 34, 25, 16, 26, 12, 9, 2, 7, and 29.

Now you are wondering what are those "x". Every "x" means a hit of that number. So now you think: "Ok, so number 31 has hit 3 times". That is wrong, number 31 has hit 5 times.

Pay attention:

First time number 31 hits, you write it down. Second time it hits, you circled it. And every next time the number hits, you add it a "x".

Therefore: in the above example we have that, 31 has hit 5 times, 34 has hit 2 times, 25 has hit 2 times, 16 has hit 2 times, 26 has hit 3 times, 12 has hit 2 times, 9 has hit 4 times, 2 has hit 3 times, 7 has hit 2 times, 29 has hit 2 times, and all the others numbers have hit only 1 time.

Later, you will learn why you need to know how many times a number has hit.


What if you come across with a non playable selection (less than 10 repeaters)?

If you come across with a group of 24 numbers with less than 10 repeaters, that is a non playable selection.

But don't worry, because it doesn’t happen too often.

Also you can track 2 tables at the same time, if you have the chance.

If you find a non playable selection, forget it and start a new one. DO NOT PLAY IT.

I know it could be disappointing to track about 34 to 56 outcomes and then leave it, but I think Safety First.


****************************** UPDATE OF THE 01.29.2002 ************************************************


IMPROVEMENTS APPLIED TO "THE GARDEN" SYSTEM.


To avoid so many unqualified sessions (the ones with less than 10 repeaters) I have tested and implemented a new rule.

Originally, when you come across with a session with less than 10 repeaters, you should forget it and not play it.

Well, I have changed that, and it has proved better results.

Firstly, now the necessary amount of repeaters is not 10 anymore, but 9.

Now with the new rule, when you come across with a session with less than 9 repeaters, DO NOT FORGET IT.

What you should do is the following:

KEEP TRACKING UNTIL YOU GET 9 REPEATERS.

While tracking add new numbers at the end of the string and cross out the oldest number with only 1 hit (the closest one to the beginning of the string). Do this until you have 9 repeaters. Remember that you should ALWAYS HAVE ONLY 24 NUMBERS IN YOUR SELECTION.

Do not forget to cross out the oldest number with only one hit every time you add a new number to the string.

Do not forget to circle repeaters numbers as they hit.

Once you have your 9 repeaters, stop tracking and start the playing period.


I guess it is clear. If you have any questions, please e-mail me.

Thanks everyone.

Hernan.


******************************************************************************************

***************


2) The Playing Period:


After you have a selection of 24 numbers, you start playing.

You place flat bets in all 24 numbers.

When you are ready to start and you have your chips, DO NOT BET THE FIRST SPIN.

To start playing you have to wait until what would have been a winning happens, or until what would have been 3 loses in a row happens, whatever comes first.

Keep tracking these "would be" numbers, as instructed below.


Lets continues with the above outcomes example:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11

x x x x

x x

x


Lets start with the most common and easy of the sessions.

Lets say the first spin (the one you do not bet), number 20 hits; that would have been a winning, so next spin you start betting. Do not forget to track number 20 (circle it, as this is the second time it hits).

Now your selection should look like this:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11

x x x x

x x

x


So, now you have placed flat bet in all the above numbers.

Now lets say number 25 hits. That is a winning, and you are 12 units up.

NOW YOU FINISH THAT SESSION.


There are 3 circumstances under which you MUST FINISH a session :


a) When you are 12 units up, between 10 spins from the spin you started to place bets.

b) If you are not 12 units up between 10 spins, you keep playing until you are -12 units down. As soon as you are -12 units down you finish that session. You can do this until spin number 90 (counting from the first spin you have tracked, NOT from the first spin you have placed bets). Don't worry too much about this, as this very rarely happens, if ever. Usually you finish a session before play spin number 20. The longest session I have recorded is 31 spins to finish -12 units; and that have happened once in 750 sessions.

When I talk about 90 spins, I'm talking about the worst possible scenario. I think it is almost impossible to happen, since either you surely will finish the session under circumstance "a" or you will finish when you are -12 units before 90 spins (circumstance "b"), or you will finish the session under circumstance "c".

c) As soon as you are -84 or -96 units down, you finish that session. Of course it is the less common circumstance.



ALWAYS REMEMBER: There is a maximum of 10 spins to be 12 units up. NEVER FORGET THAT.

After spin number 10, from the time you started to place bets, your objective is to be -12 units down. Do not try to profit after 10th spin. If you do that, you are not playing "The Garden" system properly.


Lets continue with more examples:


These are our numbers from the original example:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11

x x x x

x x

x


Lets say first spin number 23 hits, that would have been a lost, but you are not betting first spin, remember?

What you do now is to add number 23 at the end of the string; but now you have 25 numbers; so you cross out the first number of the string, ignore numbers with more than one hit, this is easy to do because numbers with more than one hit are circled.

So, you cross out number 19.

Now your selection should look like this:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11,

x x x x

x x

x

23


Lets say next spin number 27 hits, that would have been a lost, but you are not placing bets yet, remember?

So, you add number 27 at the end of the string and cross out number 1.

Now your selection should look like this:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11,

x x x x

x x

x


23, 27


Lets say next spin number 11 hits, that would have been a winning, so you can start placing bets next spin.

So, you circle number 11. Never forget to circle repeaters numbers, or if they are already circled, don’t forget to add them a "x".

Now your selection should look like this:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11,

x x x x

x x

x


23, 27


Now lets say next spin number 36 hits, that is a losing. Now you are -24 units down.

So, you add number 36 at the end of the string and cross out number 21. Remember not to cross out numbers with more than one hit; that is the reason why you don’t cross out number 31 in this example.

Now your selection should look like this:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11,

x x x x

x x

x


23, 27, 36


Now lets say next spin, number 7 hits, that is a winning. Now you are -12 units down.

So, you add a "x" under number 7. Do not cross out any numbers, since there are not new numbers added to the string.

Now your selection should look like this:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11,

x x x x x

x x

x


23, 27, 36


Now lets say next spin, number 18 hits, that is a winning. Now you are even.

So, you circle number 18. Do not cross out any numbers, since there are not new numbers added to the string.

Now your selection should look like this:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11,

x x x x x

x x

x


23, 27, 36


Now lets say next spin number 9 hits, that is a winning. Now you are 12 units up. Therefore you FINISH THIS SESSION.


So in this example you finished the session under circumstance "a", and your winnings-losing balance should look like this:

-24, -12, 0, +12


Lets see an example of a session finished under circumstance "b":

-24, -12, 0, -24, -48, -36, -60, -48, -36, -24, (from now on your objective is -12) -48, -36, -24, -12


Lets see an example of a session finished under circumstance "c":

-24, -48, -36, -60, -84


Lets see another example of a session finished under circumstance "c":

-24, -12, 0, -24, -48, -72, -96


What if you have not more numbers with only one hit to cross out?

This question is the reason why you need to know how many times every number have hit.

If you come across with this situation, you start crossing out numbers with two hits. Always remember to cross out the oldest number (the closest one to the beginning of the string).

If you ever come across with the situation in which you have not more numbers with two hits, cross out numbers with three hits (this circumstance is very rare).


What if a crossed out number hits again?

When a crossed out number came back, you ADD IT at the end of the string and CIRCLE IT since it has hit twice. And you CROSS OUT the oldest number with only 1 hit. You should always have only 24 numbers in your selection.

If you come across with a situation in wich a "circled and crossed out number" came back, you add it at the end of the string and add a "x" under it, since it has hit three times.


Example, lets say that in any given moment your selection look like this:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11,

x x x x x x

x x

x

x


23, 27, 36, 5, 32


Next spin, number 21 hits. As it is crossed out, you add it at the end of the string and CIRCLE IT since it has hit twice. And you CROSS OUT the oldest number with only 1 hit (in this example would be number 33).

Now your selection should look like this:


19, 1, 31, 21, 34, 8, 22, 25, 33, 16, 26, 28, 12, 9, 35, 13, 2, 7, 24, 29, 20, 18, 0, 11,

x x x x x

x x

x


23, 27, 36, 5, 32, 21


VERY IMPORTANT GUIDELINES:


Always remember you do not bet in the first spin, you must wait until what would have been a winning happens, or until what would have been 3 loses in a row happens, whatever comes first.


Always remember: There is a maximum of 10 spins to be 12 units up. NEVER FORGET THIS RULE.


Always remember that ONLY after a losing you add a new number, and cross out a number.


Always remember that ONLY after a winning you circle a repeater number, or add a "x" to a repeater number.


How many sessions should you play and what value of chips?

Well, I think the best is to play two sessions a day, 3 or 4 days a week, with $2 chips.

At least that is what I do. But it’s up to you.

I suggest you to play as a professional player. What it means? Well, have discipline, stick to the system instructions and don’t be greedy.

[RouletteGhost]

thanks for the info wiggy

interesting read

a lot to take in and time consuming

but it does look good

we can discuss other ideas in this thread. i do not want to start another one

everytime i say to myself im going to take a break i get another idea

im currently working on a 4 wide Odd/Even matrix

going to test the living daylights out of it before i post it

odd/even are the only even chances that intrigue me...im going through zumma and am noticing a few things

i went through 1,000 spins after work today

i notice that 4 is NEVER followed by 4, so far. i have not seen OOOO EEEE im sure they are there and im sure someone will post an example of it happening but im working on a matrix for odd/even bet selection

[MrJ]

@RG >> You put a lot of effort into roulette, I'll give you that. That does not mean I agree with your findings, just saying you try real hard.

My point is, take half of that energy and check more into "hot" numbers (repeaters). There are *MANY* different directions to go with hot numbers, *MANY* different ways to pursue it. Just a thought, dont kill me.

Ken

[RouletteGhost]

@RG >> You put a lot of effort into roulette, I'll give you that. That does not mean I agree with your findings, just saying you try real hard.

My point is, take half of that energy and check more into "hot" numbers (repeaters). There are *MANY* different directions to go with hot numbers, *MANY* different ways to pursue it. Just a thought, dont kill me.

Ken

ive looked at it

ive also read your own personal threads...crazy train? or crazy 8 i forget

and i think notto is hot on the trail waiting for 12 uniques then betting for repeats

[RouletteGhost]

Total number of spins investigated: 397271
Outcomes
Red: 395457
Black: 395454
Even: 395381
Odd: 395414
Low: 395465
High: 395305
ZERO: 10641

LEGEND (explaining the columns of the following table):
Lth: Length of sequence
NoFR: Total number of sequences of this lenght found, of Red
NoFB: Total number of sequences of this lenght found, of Black
NoFE: Total number of sequences of this lenght found, of Even
NoFO: Total number of sequences of this lenght found, of Odd
NoFL: Total number of sequences of this lenght found, of Low
NoFH: Total number of sequences of this lenght found, of High

Lth    NoFR    NoFB    NoFE    NoFO    NoFL       NoFH
---------------------------------------
  1   51124   50807   50918   51266   51098   50644
  2   24497   24816   24637   24664   24633   24637
  3   12039   11954   12011   11789   11600   12144
  4    5783    5893    5828      5741      5864     5760
  5    2748    2706     2732     2839     2750      2834
  6    1385    1373    1410      1346      1379    1419
  7     638     618      663          641        686    626
  8     308     313       295         337        303    312
  9      157    162        156        155        155    141
10      82     71          68           68          88      70
11       45    33           32          43           43    33
12       20    16           12          13           12    13
13      11     10            7           10           15     7
14       0       3             6            4             6     7
15       3       4             4            0             2     5
16       0       2             2            2             1     1
17       0       1             0            0             0     3
18       0       0             0            1             0     0
19       0       0             1            1             0     0
21       1       0            1             0             0     0

[MrJ]

ive looked at it

ive also read your own personal threads...crazy train? or crazy 8 i forget

and i think notto is hot on the trail waiting for 12 uniques then betting for repeats

Even my own, which you mentioned, nothing great.

but why almighty Ken? I answered that already. Ya get too many LONG STRETCHES of the early repeaters, then they STOP hitting again. You now are a ton of units in the hole. Thats the thing that sucks. If numbers do NOT go on a tear with many hits.....go home broke again.....back to the message boards.....say to yourself, "well maybe its a decent method but I sat down at the wrong time"......pat yourself on the back......back to the message boards......head out another day to the casino and try again etc.

You/me/we can not make any extra money with these tough "what ifs" looming over our heads.

If numbers do not want to repeat often, they won't.

FIX this issue with a *PERFECT* *PERFECT* *PERFECT* *PERFECT* set of betting rules and that'll be a TRUE holy grail, I am 100% positive on that !!!!

Ken

[RouletteGhost]

somethin im working on

[thelaw]

Even my own, which you mentioned, nothing great.

but why almighty Ken? I answered that already. Ya get too many LONG STRETCHES of the early repeaters, then they STOP hitting again. You now are a ton of units in the hole. Thats the thing that sucks. If numbers do NOT go on a tear with many hits.....go home broke again.....back to the message boards.....say to yourself, "well maybe its a decent method but I sat down at the wrong time"......pat yourself on the back......back to the message boards......head out another day to the casino and try again etc.

You/me/we can not make any extra money with these tough "what ifs" looming over our heads.

If numbers do not want to repeat often, they won't.

FIX this issue with a *PERFECT* *PERFECT* *PERFECT* *PERFECT* set of betting rules and that'll be a TRUE holy grail, I am 100% positive on that !!!!

Ken

100% completely agree with this!!!

So now we are to believe that there was this system..........from years ago..............that has been public that entire time............that works for long-term profits.

Where are the players using this?

Why hasn't someone come back and said "it works"?

Why are members who claim to have other winning methods looking into this old chestnut?

This forum never fails to disappoint me........

[RouletteGhost]

100% completely agree with this!!!

So now we are to believe that there was this system..........from years ago..............that has been public that entire time............that works for long-term profits.

Where are the players using this?

Why hasn't someone come back and said "it works"?

Why are members who claim to have other winning methods looking into this old chestnut?

This forum never fails to disappoint me........

Moving target was damn good. Tweak that thing or use it

[thelaw]

Moving target was damn good. Tweak that thing or use it

............not using it for the same reason you're not using yours........doesn't work long-term.

If either of those worked, we'd both be at the tables right now.......with a huge pile of chips!!!

[MrJ]

(my opinion)......long term does not mean 300K spins with testing. Long term is, hundreds and hundreds of tests/playing (too many people here only test) at smaller spin sizes.

Example of what I mean (a HG), go to the casino and play for six hours each visit. We'll say 40 per hour, 240 spins per visit and I dont mean fu***n air ball. I'm talking about where men play, at an actual wheel.

How many visits? Lets say 500 visits. If you are up nicely after that (and I dont mean $20), I'll eat the corn out of your s**t.
That my friends is a *TRUE*....HOLY GRAIL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ken