KTF

[Big EZ]

I have come to the conclusion that one of the reasons I have done EXTREMELY well with this is my patience in waiting for a good count before betting the repeats.

-Celtic

What do you find to be a good count, is there a certain threshold

[Celticknits]

Good job, Celtic!
What strategy were you playing till now?

For how long before are you playing Roulette, if it is not too much to ask!?

-Nextyear

I am not sure if you are asking how long I have been playing roulette or when I started to bet the repeats on my 15Mar16 post so I will give you both answers.
1. I joined the forum on January 12, 2016 to learn about roulette.
Prior to that I did not play roulette at all.
I am not new to gambling however and have played blackjack for almost 40 years.
With all the rule changes in blackjack I decided I would look for another game to concentrate on.
2. I started to bet for the repeats on spin #21 but remember I am not playing KTF I am playing for repeats to hit.

I am not using any other strategy and tried a few others very briefly in the beginning but it took too long to make money with them.
No need to play any other strategy as I am making a killing playing for repeats and leave the casino within an hour with around $100.00 profit which is the stop level that I set for myself.

NOTE: If you look at ALL the posts in this thread you will see where I gave several sources for the information that I use to play the repeats.

To respect Notto I only post all of the numbers for that session and the KTF payout sheet, after all, this is a KTF thread.

-Celtic

[Celticknits]

What do you find to be a good count, is there a certain threshold

-Big EZ

8+3 at spin #20 is good for me.

Not sure what you mean by a threshold.
My win threshold is +$100 / session if that is what you mean.

-Celtic

[NextYear]

Thanks Celtic,

yes I was asking for overall (gambling) experience.
As I have almost none, it's good to hear that you didn't lose your shirt after 40 years of trying...

I think it is all explained with KTF (Thanks Notto!  ), but your successful playing on repeats is still enigmatic.

I also, as EZ, don't follow what is 8+3 in your counting...

What do you find to be a good count, is there a certain threshold

For threshold he asks if 7+2 or 6+2 (whatever this is) would be enough good count.

Your posts and tables are also very helpful (to have them, for time when one decide to go for deeper analysis).

Thanks Celtic

[tuddilue]

I want to ask a little bit more about the RFH. How do you decide when the trot is not favorable to bet on? When do you decide that the trot is slow and has to many repeaters in the beginning?

I mean the trot is not revealing itself before spin 13 if it is a fast or slow trot. Because we want to have a fast trot with a lot of unhits. If we start at 11 and bet for unhits you are betting without knowing what is going to happen...

Winkel wrote this for example:

First Point we do a check is spin 13:

We expect (see above) 10-11 different numbers.
If we have 13 different hit numbers we call this trot "fast"
If we have less than 10 hit different numbers we call this trot "slow"

Do you use some more variables than spin 13 to see this?
Are you using the AVG document? I mean the only thing we know is the first 10 numbers. Can we use that information some how?

[ramonnetje]

Hi Notto, you keep mentioning that the avg in 30spins in 15.70212.. which means 5 non hits for each box of 10. The problem with this I think is that the probability that a non hit occurs in box 11-20 is much more likely than a hit for box 31-40 given that more cookies have neem eaten from the yar in box 31-40 and the likelihood one will be eaten again is relatively smaller than for box 11-20. Than my question is, if the likelihood a non hit will fall is not linear over 11-20/21-30/31-40 as you mention but more logarithmic, how does that affect your TROT and moreover how do I have to interpret it? I see you writing down for example 8+3, 5+0 etc to watch the trot, but the TROT over 11-40 is not linear, how exactly do I have to intepret this trend over the sequence of numbers?

Thank you

[ramonnetje]

I want to ask a little bit more about the RFH. How do you decide when the trot is not favorable to bet on? When do you decide that the trot is slow and has to many repeaters in the beginning?

I mean the trot is not revealing itself before spin 13 if it is a fast or slow trot. Because we want to have a fast trot with a lot of unhits. If we start at 11 and bet for unhits you are betting without knowing what is going to happen...

Winkel wrote this for example:
Do you use some more variables than spin 13 to see this?
Are you using the AVG document? I mean the only thing we know is the first 10 numbers. Can we use that information some how?

tuddilue. I think that is a very good and relevant question. I am wondering what is the answer to that one. When is the trot (un)favorabel?

[nottophammer]

 ramonnetje
Lets forget the Maths as KTF is just about betting non-hits. It's simple even my mother-in-law can do it, you have 10 spins, lets say no repeat, now you just bet the non-hit using +1/-1, when you stop is up to you.

Now the maths part, i'm no maths person, so all i see is over a few hundred recorded games is spins 11-40 gives on avg  15.70212 numbers, so i conveniently drop the point part,thus 15 non-hit in 30 spins. I do remember i should round it up,but i dont.
So if  11-20/21-30/31-40 achive 15 non-hit i think you should see 5 non-hit in each group, like you say 11-20 should have the larger group of non-hit which is what i want in KTF the non-hit hitting.
I see you writing down for example 8+3, 5+0 etc to watch the trot, okay if you've had 10 non-hit in spins 1-10, 27 non-hit left, so as you sit there watching spins 11-20 and like you say we should still see more non-hit than 1 hits, so you've waited till 20 spins have past and in spins 11-20 you got 8 non-hit, so 8 would be 3 more than the expected 5, +3.
Now with the trot showing 18 non-hit have come, what is going to show up,perhaps a 50/50 of 0X's and 1X's, i know i would favour going for the one- hits.
Its just an aid to watch the trot.
Now some good words from Azim to understand the trot you need to practice,practice, but for a simple method that you dont care what the trot is doing is KTF just betting non-hit.

[ramonnetje]

Hi Notto,
Thanks for you fast response. Sure I want to play KTF but since you have mentioned the importance of the trot I want to fully understand it to benefit from it. I can understand that the trot is supposed to be a tool to aid you in your betting process. However, what I fail to understand that understanding the trot is something that comes with experience (Like Azim says). I mean, once we know the rules, we know how to apply them, therefor experience in this matter is irrelevant. If this, than that.

With all due respect "So if  11-20/21-30/31-40 achive 15 non-hit i think you should see 5 non-hit in each group, like you say 11-20 should have the larger group of non-hit which is what i want in KTF the non-hit hitting."  this is simply not true. The likelihood for hit/non hit to occur over 11-20/21-30/31-40 is NOT equally divided among the three groups. I think if yo would look at your data sheet and count the avarage ratio hit/non hit for box 2,3 and 4 you can see that the trend is not linear. This does not say i disapprove of the trot, it just makes me wonder how to understand it correctly. What is the trend and how does the development of the trend aids me in the betting process.

If I look at it from a common sense point of view I would just say plot a graph that shows the avarage distribution of the hit non/hit over box 2,3 and 4. This is the average and any deviation from the avarage aids you in your betting process. For example if the mean is 5 and deviation from that mean is 3 hits (i.e. 5+3) than the likelihood that a non hit occurs has increased apposed to a situation where the has not occured.

What do you think

[Big EZ]

Celtic,
Thanks for your answer. As far as threshold is concerned I meant in regards to the count.

8+3
7+2
6+1

I was just basically wondering if you have a preference

I also, as EZ, don't follow what is 8+3 in your counting...

nextyear.....
Please do not assume I do not know what is going on and speak on my behalf. Thank you

[nottophammer]

You want to play KTF, you dont need to watch the trot as you just betting non-hit, so no need for trot watching.
Now box 2,3,4, well look what happens on todays Jackpot 247.com, box 2 +0, box 3 +0 box 4 -1. So box 2,3 the trot is 50/50. The next spin KTF is finished +41 it does not need to know what the trot is doing as i said is just betting the non-hit.

Now, Winkel,i hope would say if your watching the trot  and you see spins 32 to 37 are repeats, what would your decision be, to carry on and bet for more repeats, No, at 37 spins we've only had 21 non-hit, so you would now surely go for non-hit,look it balances out 6 non-hit on the bounce.

At the end of the day MATH says you will get caught, but when, KTF using jackpot 247.com has lost once in 83 games. Why, to me, because it uses the larger group non-hit.

To me the DUE argument, when you arrive what have you got, 37 non-hit, 50% of jackpot games are 9/10 in spins 1-10, so the larger group are more favorable to bet.

[nottophammer]

+41

Code Select Expand

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 29 36
2 17 35
3 32 34
4 2 33
5 31 32
6 14 31
7 0 30
8 34 29
9 28 28 stake
10 21 27 non-hit return
11 20 26 1 27 36 9
12 27 25 1 26 36 19
13 14 r 1 25 0 -6
14 11 24 2 50 72 16
15 34 r 1 24 0 -8
16 20 r 2 48 0 -56
17 9 23 3 72 108 -20
18 34 r 2 46 0 -66
19 6 22 3 69 108 -27
20 34 r 2 44 0 -71
21 13 21 3 66 108 -29
22 32 r 2 42 0 -71
23 18 20 3 63 108 -26
24 19 19 2 40 72 6
25 27 r 1 19 0 -13
26 11 r 2 38 0 -51
27 7 18 3 57 108 0
28 18 r 2 36 0 -36
29 26 17 3 54 108 18
30 31 r 2 34 0 -16
31 4 16 3 51 108 41 stop
32 34 r 4
33 21 r 5
34 7 r 6
35 14 r 7
36 21 r 8
37 32 r 9
38 33 15 10
39 3 14 9
40 35 13 8
41 10 12 7
42 1 11 6
43 22 10 5
44 2 r
45 29 9
46 8 r
47 17 r
48 2 r
49 17 r
50 18 r
51 19 r
52 32 r
53 20 r
54 5 8
55 35 r
56 12 7
57 5 r
58 2 r
59 16 6
60 22

61 21
62 9
63 35
64 24
65 30
66 2


[NextYear]

I also, as EZ, don't follow what is 8+3 in your counting...
For threshold he asks if 7+2 or 6+2 (whatever this is) would be enough good count.

Sorry, just understood that it is the same 8+3 from KTF!
For a moment I thought you have your own 8+3 for repeaters...

Just forget it, please.

[tuddilue]

Its just an aid to watch the trot.
Now some good words from Azim to understand the trot you need to practice,practice, but for a simple method that you dont care what the trot is doing is KTF just betting non-hit.

Thanks notto for a quick answer!
Yes it was as I suspected it is really hard to know when the RFH will arrive. You need more data if you are going to use the GUT to figure it out. I totally agree that KTF is a simple method that is betting non-hit and that its works.

[ramonnetje]

Well sure that distribution looks really nice, but one sample does not represent the whole population, obviously. Anyway, I get you are betting for the larger group and that larger groups represent better odds for winning. However, larger groups of non hits also mean larger bets. And once you loose one round, you need to win more than one round to make up for the loss. Therefor it is all relative. I bet if you do the math, chance to win (36/hits) x betting amount < chance to loose (36/non hits) x betting amount