The biggest issue with methods, please join in

[Tacwell]

I've seen a random 12 numbers take 34 spins, a dozen be it 1,2 or 3 take atleast 34 spins.
Now the but
When i play the non-hit of the mat/wheel betting those 12 remaining non-hit the longest i've seen it take in j247 is 10 spins, the larger data base 17 spins, no where near as the random 12, so why is this,what is the answer by math

is this above written in, invisable ink

I'm not exactly a maths guy, but start looking here:
link:s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deviation_%28statistics%29

[nottophammer]

not asking that i'm interested in the difference in spins against a random 12 numbers or the 12 numbers in one of the dozens, against the non-hit being played down untill we get to the remaining 12 non-hit, why such a difference in spins, seen many times, in fact been there and done it

[Kimo Li]

Experience will tell you when to stay and when to leave, what strategy to play and what not to play, how much money to risk and not to risk. Experience is not impervious to losses, but limiting your losses and knowing when to fight another day, that holds true to winning as well. Did you make your quota?, leave.

For some, experience will not teach you positive lessons. It will teach you to do the same mistakes over and over, drinking, borrowing money, staying up to late, etc., that is a different topic.

@Ken,

I'm not trying to argue even though I come off that way, I do apologize. If the HE *NEVER* changes, that being said, I would think there are no right OR wrong decisions? The HE would STAY THE SAME(?)

I do not see it as an argument. I do not see it as right or wrong. I see it as making decisions, regardless of the outcome.

Kimo Li

[nottophammer]

Thanks for the link
But i'm not wasting my time on math.
I believe that what the formulas come up with are right. Like i said am i going to sit at the table working math, don't think so

[Tacwell]

This  "how much money to risk and not to risk"
and this "limiting your losses"

What experience won't do is give you a better chance of winning in the long run, or beat the HE, or tell you when it's the right time to leave (aside from the whiskey effect).

Experience will tell you when to stay and when to leave, what strategy to play and what not to play, how much money to risk and not to risk. Experience is not impervious to losses, but limiting your losses and knowing when to fight another day, that holds true to winning as well. Did you make your quota?, leave.

For some, experience will not teach you positive lessons. It will teach you to do the same mistakes over and over, drinking, borrowing money, staying up to late, etc., that is a different topic.

@Ken,

I do not see it as an argument. I do not see it as right or wrong. I see it as making decisions, regardless of the outcome.

Kimo Li

[Tacwell]

Thanks for the link
But i'm not wasting my time on math.
I believe that what the formulas come up with are right. Like i said am i going to sit at the table working math, don't think so

Then test enough to average out deviation (you'll have to ask someone else how much testing that requires), if you're still ahead after that, then you're on to something. 

[thelaw]

Another thing to consider when running the math........this post was a real wake-up call for me :

link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=7709.msg70028#msg70028

Check out the graphs further down the front page.

Some of these had 10,000-25,000 spins before they tanked, with huge dd before recovery.

Which begs the question...........who here has presented a system that has these numbers without a failure?

I always consider this when searching for "Proof" of a working method. If you played for 4hrs per day, you would need about 4 months to hit 25,000 spins.

The 25,000CLUB

The 100,000CLUB

The 1,000,000CLUB

[TurboGenius]

Can a person win LONG TERM and still play against the very same 5.26% that the rookie plays against?

Of course, there are so many different ways to play that one person may have a long period of time in profit and the other might lose right from the start and never recover - but the math won't change.

I find it curious that people who complain in this thread about the "math people" seem to think that anyone preaching math is anti-system (which isn't the case at all).
If you say "nonsense" to the math of the game, then don't waste any more time working on
methods - you'll go through thousands of ideas and never get anywhere.
How can you avoid one of the most important things in the game, or pretend it doesn't exist ?
I could probably go on and on about this topic and what's been mentioned already - but I don't have the time right now. lol.

The "amazing" charts some systems produce are also nonsense if you just stop to think about it.
Let's say a chart climbs and climbs for 10,000 spins and then tanks - (you end up where the math says you should be at).
So.... that's impressive ?  Ask the person who "just" started playing the exact same method/system right before it tanked. Their chart would look absolutely terrible - it would drop and drop and drop - eventually maybe recover some, etc etc.
A nice chart that climbs and then tanks doesn't mean something works - because you have to assume that "someone" started playing at some point in the chart and has had a horrific time playing it lol. You can't know that you're starting at the beginning and can look forward to thousands of spins in the profit, you have to also assume that you started right when it started to tank as well... Make sense ? Of course it does.
What you can say though is that the odds of that terrible event happening might be rare enough that it's worth playing. If it tanks once in 10,000 spins for example - I would say it's worth the risk to play it, and hope that "my" place on the chart isn't where it went all-to-hell.
That's a topic most people don't want to think about - they see a chart that looks nice
and never think that you theoretically could have started right when it fails and you're in the hole.

[RouletteGhost]

@turbo

Thats how i felt with aspects of grassroots

A unique dozen sequence repeats on average every 300 spins

Ex 123123

Now id like to play against that unique. But what if when i get to the table it happens right away

[MrJ]

@Turbo >> I have said something similar for years but nobody listens. For you chart people (thats not me) this is how I would like to see the testing charts ......start your method and every 30 spins, restart the method again, 30 spins later, start method again etc.

Using some of those past spins as part of the current testing etc.  Multiple small tests but within the SAME long set of numbers. I hope that made sense.

Ken

[MrJ]

@Turbo >> I have said something similar for years but nobody listens. For you chart people (thats not me) this is how I would like to see the testing charts ......start your method and every 30 spins, restart the method again, 30 spins later, start method again etc.

Using some of those past spins as part of the current testing etc.  Multiple small tests but within the SAME long set of numbers. I hope that made sense.

Ken

I should be more clear regarding my own post. This is how I would like to see some
testing done >> Start test and 30 spins into it, restart a new test but KEEP GOING on the first test.

30 spins later, start over again but keep going with those first TWO tests etc. All numbers over lapping each other AS IF you just sat down next to a guy playing the SAME method but he started before you did. All tests up to 240 spins(?) each....thats 6 hours of play at a REAL CASINO.

Ken

[speed]

 one question, did anyone of you can prove that some system-method is better or worse than another, or all is same, in the long term -2.7%?

[MrJ]

one question, did anyone of you can prove that some system-method is better or worse than another, or all is same, in the long term -2.7%?

I think (general consensus) was, its NOT the method itself but rather, SPECIFIC moments, when to bet within that method. It came down to TIMING rather than the method. At least thats what I got out of it. The bad news however, if you ask TOP TOP pros (none of us here), they would say, it makes NO DIFFERENCE at all, for one spin or many spins, the HE will never change.

Ken

[speed]

I agree if we can see or predict the future we do not need any system

[RouletteGhost]

The biggest issue with methods is the money not being in MY pocket