KTF's cousin named WTF (if everyone agrees)

[tuddilue]

I believe so.
I did see the jump mentioned in Winkels posts but never described.
Probably in one of the deleted ones.
Maybe Notto van clarify this.

-Celtic

Thanks @azim!
Winkel also said this:

Now we have a look at the "JUMP"

If we watch a trot and we find situations
- we have a double loss (betting two crossings)
- we can not expect a crossing ("0" run down; "1" is rising to 18 or higher; no repeaters)
- we are in doubt and it seems we can not read "What is going on"
etc.
Then we start a new trot either starting with the next spin or any other spin of the last spins.

If we start with a new spin #1 we will perhaps have to wait more than 25 spins before we find a new/next crossing. Most crossings will appear after spin 25!

So we count back 25 spins and start with that, so we have a full sight, if this new counting is in better shape or it is fast or slow.
In a BM-Casino this needs some time so we just jump bakc 20 spins, so our calculations are done when the new spin 25 appears.

Also if we have finished our first attack and we wanna restart we can use this 20-25spin jump back.

I think that explains the jump even more...

[denzie]

Yes that is correct this is all RNG. It behaves really much different than a wheel. Much more harder to play 

Does it ? I've been playing RNG on a daily basis and not sure what to think. I do know I'm winning on it. On the other side. ...on rng we play a lot more sessions. So shouldn't the rfh come faster also ?

I don't reset. I still play as I said if the count is not good. Looking at your 3 games I wouldn't had a problem.

The more sessions you do...the more you start seeing. I evaluate all sessions every day. That's why I see how to beat the rng. On airball I seem to get more repeaters on spin 21-30. But 46 games vs 470 rng ... is hard to tell

[tuddilue]

Does it ? I've been playing RNG on a daily basis and not sure what to think. I do know I'm winning on it. On the other side. ...on rng we play a lot more sessions. So shouldn't the rfh come faster also ?

I don't reset. I still play as I said if the count is not good. Looking at your 3 games I wouldn't had a problem.

The more sessions you do...the more you start seeing. I evaluate all sessions every day. That's why I see how to beat the rng. On airball I seem to get more repeaters on spin 21-30. But 46 games vs 470 rng ... is hard to tell

It feels so. I mean it is like the random software is harder to beat I can't really explain why..
But one example is the 3 repeats,  that I see not often on a real wheel. But it doesn't matter for playing for the repeaters.

Yes I agree with you it gets easier. You must play a lot and practice, practice, practice.. You get a feeling for the trot and all these count and averages just get more naturally..

[Celticknits]

Winkel also said this:I think that explains the jump even more...

Quote from: winkel on January 24, 2011, 07:51:13 PM

    Now we have a look at the "JUMP"

    If we watch a trot and we find situations
    - we have a double loss (betting two crossings)
    - we can not expect a crossing ("0" run down; "1" is rising to 18 or higher; no repeaters)
    - we are in doubt and it seems we can not read "What is going on"
    etc.
    Then we start a new trot either starting with the next spin or any other spin of the last spins.

    If we start with a new spin #1 we will perhaps have to wait more than 25 spins before we find a new/next crossing. Most crossings will appear after spin 25!

    So we count back 25 spins and start with that, so we have a full sight, if this new counting is in better shape or it is fast or slow.
    In a BM-Casino this needs some time so we just jump bakc 20 spins, so our calculations are done when the new spin 25 appears.

    Also if we have finished our first attack and we wanna restart we can use this 20-25spin jump back.

I think that explains the jump even more...

-Tuddilue

Thank you for posting that Winkel quote.
It was the one I was referring to but could not find.

-Celtic

[tuddilue]

-Tuddilue

Thank you for posting that Winkel quote.
It was the one I was referring to but could not find.

-Celtic

No problem, just glad to help!

[SimonZed1]

Does it mean you bet on all the numbers in the first 20 spins, single hit plus repeat numbers?

If the 21st spin is a loss, do you add this number to the numbers you are already betting?

Hello Sniper,
Yes exactly! That's the way I do it. I am thinking of maybe not betting the repeaters. I don't really know for now. So I would bet only the numbers that have appeared once. I wonder what may be the stats on numbers repeating 2 times in 10 spins…. Another thing I want to try is to start betting only when I get 4 repeats in 20 spins or more. Example: Right now, the way I do it, is to start betting after spins 20 if I have 4 or less repeats from the first 20 spins. I was thinking about starting to bet only after the 4th repeater if it hasn't appeared in the first 20 spins. Example: If in the first 20 spins I get 3 repeats, I wait for other spins for a 4th repeat and then I start betting, like if at spin 25 I get my 4th repeat, I start betting at spin 26.

If the 21st number is a loss, yes, it is added to the list of numbers that I bet.

I will try to explain the trot that you had question about.
Hope it helps. If not just ask more questions!

Tuddilue, Thanks for the information! It is a little bit more clearer now. I still will go thru the KTF and GUT threads again…. I probably have missed something....

Thanks for how you are playing, really interesting approach!

Sure! No problems!! I love to read about new ideas and new ways of seeing things. So I thought that bringing in my view of the game might add another view to the way we play the game!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have tried to play this on Live Dealers but even with 35 seconds it is not enough time to place bets when you are a little bit high in the progression.
The problem with RNG is that where I play I have to place a bet to spin the wheel. I play black and red on a french La Partage wheel. So when the Zero come up, I only lose half my bets.

Here are a little bit of my sessions results:

Session 1: +25
Session 2: +22
Session 3: +28
Session 4: +21
Session 5: +21
Session 6: +19
Session 7: +25
Session 8: +22
Session 9: +22
Session 10: +25
Session 11: +22
Session 12: +21
Session 13: +21
Session 14: +26
Session 15: +10
Session 16: +20
Session 17: +20
Session 18: +22
Session 19: +20
Session 20: +20
Session 21: +19
Session 22: +28
Session 23: +17
Session 24: +20

I want to bring the girlfriend to New York for shopping next Christmas... And it looks like it may actually happen!!

Simon.

[MrJ]

"I am thinking of maybe not betting the repeaters. I don't really know for now" >>

Hello SimonZed1..... a bit of FRIENDLY advice. I have tested many many methods over many many years. Anytime you change a rule (regardless of how small), you start fresh.

*ALL* past winning/losing results are gone. You are not plus or minus a thing. It would be unrealistic to keep past winning results IF you change any rules. Glad I could help.

Ken

[SimonZed1]

"I am thinking of maybe not betting the repeaters. I don't really know for now" >>

Hello SimonZed1..... a bit of FRIENDLY advice. I have tested many many methods over many many years. Anytime you change a rule (regardless of how small), you start fresh.

*ALL* past winning/losing results are gone. You are not plus or minus a thing. It would be unrealistic to keep past winning results IF you change any rules. Glad I could help.

Ken

Yeah. I guess Ill keep it like this for now. Like they say in sports: Why change a winning team...!!

Thanks for the tip.

[sniper]

Hello SimonZed1,

Thanks for your reply.

I have tried betting only single hit without the repeater, the draw down seems to get bigger.

I can't really conclude which is better. I prefer to bet both single hit plus repeater as what you are doing.

Regards

[NextYear]

@SimonZed1

Your results show that you haven't learned how to lose yet, nice!

How many spins is your average Session including waiting?
You use +1/-1 progression? How high in progression it goes and what is deepest DD?
Do you "jump back" with same numbers or you go for new set of spins?

That info would come useful with results.

Thanks

[denzie]

It feels so. I mean it is like the random software is harder to beat I can't really explain why..
But one example is the 3 repeats,  that I see not often on a real wheel. But it doesn't matter for playing for the repeaters.

I'm gonna play airball only from today.  And than I'm gonna compare the sheets with the rng sheets. Curious if there's going to be any difference.

[tuddilue]

I'm gonna play airball only from today.  And than I'm gonna compare the sheets with the rng sheets. Curious if there's going to be any difference.

Yes that will be interesting!

I will do the same when I have played the RNG for a week. I must have something to compare with the airball 

[nottophammer]

A ? or 2
When you are playing on RNG, are you the only player or is the #spun given to multi players. If its multi players then you should have no worries,it should play fair,why? if the rng is going to muck up your stratergy/method/system wont it be opening it self to someone elses stratergy/method/system.
Now if its just you then maybe. After x amount of spins it could recognise your style of play if you use this supplier often, i say this as the FOBT plays completely different to jackpot 247.com. The FOBT is now believed to give the terminal its # not all machines over the country getting the same number when in that particular draw. If the terminal is giving its own #'s then it could start giving the RFH as you are a regular user playing the same  stratergy/method/system, why over the years on FOBT have i had to redesign KTF, have the programmers changed the program.
No KTF is okay at present on the FOBT, but i expect it to change in time,just how long.

[denzie]

Single player rng... I need time to place my bets. The start is easy. But when your at 3-4 units the click war begins. I'm just not fast enough 

[SimonZed1]

I have tried betting only single hit without the repeater, the draw down seems to get bigger.

I can't really conclude which is better. I prefer to bet both single hit plus repeater as what you are doing.

Sniper, I have always believed that playing roulette is like making love. There are many ways to do it, not everybody is comfortable with all the ways, you have to find what is ok with your way of doing things, and most of all, if you are comfortable with it and it makes you win, keep doing it!! And of course… have fun also… 

Dont forget to alway TEST! TEST! TEST! Before putting your hard earned money on the table.

@SimonZed1

Your results show that you haven't learned how to lose yet, nice!

How many spins is your average Session including waiting?
You use +1/-1 progression? How high in progression it goes and what is deepest DD?
Do you "jump back" with same numbers or you go for new set of spins?

That info would come useful with results.

Thanks

Very good questions!!!

The average spins is about between 21 and 23 spins. That is 20 spins waiting and the rest is betting.I never got deeper that 3rd level of betting. Was I lucky? Probably. I am waiting for the 6-7-8 level betting just to have an idea of what can happen and how I will have to adjust to it. I am really looking for it because it is all that is missing to my actual method, I want to figure out how to use the law of the third to figure out when to stop and take the losses. If I get a few hours in front of my I will make a simulation in Xtreme Roulette to see what could happen in the worst cases.

YES!! I jump back with the same numbers if there are no repeats is the last 10 numbers. Time is money! And since I play on a RNG wheel where I have to bet red and black to spin the wheel, this way I minimize my tiny losses when I have only 10 other spins to play instead of 20. Where I play I get 11 numbers on the board so it saves me 1 spin…    That saves a lot of time!!!

I will post next sessions I do. I work a lot of hours on my day job so that let me less time to play and test. Although I am making more money per hour playing roulette than working…