KTF's cousin named WTF (if everyone agrees)

[Celticknits]

Attached is the modified tracker to only include 40 numbers plus 2 GUT columns per block of 10.
At least it's vertical now.

-Celtic

[Celticknits]

Interesting. I must calculate on this. For me I'm using a 7 step progression for 15 unit. I think that is enough. How do you think about 800? I mean how high progression and for what unit?

-Tuddilue

-Tuddilue

As I stated in the progression part of my explanation, I still use +1/-1 and have no limit regardless of the unit bet.
Unless of course I bust the BR but I have not had that issue --- YET
I do monitor the Progression and will reduce it back to 1 at a new high but here again it may be decision time because if I am at a new high and still have say 5 Repeats due in the next 7 spins and the progression was +5 I would only drop it to +4.
I know, now I am curve fitting without even having any numbers.

I hope this helps.

-Celtic

[tuddilue]

-Tuddilue

As I stated in the progression part of my explanation, I still use +1/-1 and have no limit regardless of the unit bet.
Unless of course I bust the BR but I have not had that issue --- YET
I do monitor the Progression and will reduce it back to 1 at a new high but here again it may be decision time because if I am at a new high and still have say 5 Repeats due in the next 7 spins and the progression was +5 I would only drop it to +4.
I know, now I am curve fitting without even having any numbers.

I hope this helps.

-Celtic

Thanks! Yes it helps.

I'm playing a little different nowadays. But I always have the WTF in the middle. I base all my decisions on how the trott is going so:

Fast -> KTF in the beginning (3 hits no progression), WTF (with good average) in middle, GUT crossings in the end
Normal -> KTF in the beginning (3 hits no progression), WTF (with good average) in middle, GUT crossings in the end
Slow -> It's not KTF, 12 numbers (As many as you want)

I start after spin 13 and I also make a reset back to 13 if the trott is done or looks no good..

My win goal is also 80-100. I'm always aiming for 33 (in the beginning),33 (middle), 33 (in the end) = 99
What do you think of this?
It works really great and with the help of the trott you see a lot more.

-Tuddilue
 

[Celticknits]

Here is the payout sheet for betting Repeats with the 7May 16 Jackpot247 numbers Notto posted today on the KTF thread.
Thank You Notto.

If you can understand why I would have started betting where I did you are well on your way to understanding betting Repeats.
Hint: I used to be afraid of triple hits.

-Celtic

Code Select Expand


JACKPOT247   7MAY16
Bet Repeats using Count, Nottos Averages, LOTT & G.U.T.
S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 11
2 21
3 14
4 14 R1
5 27
6 9
7 36
8 33
9 30
10 29 9/10
11 2
12 26
13 14 R2
14 24         -Considered starting to bet here
15 7
16 7 R1 12 1 12 36 24 24
17 9 R1 11 1 11 36 25 49
18 4 10 1 10 -10 39
19 30 R1 10 2 20 72 52 91     - Win/Stop reached so QUIT!!!
20 36 R1 9 1 9 36 27 118   -- For the greedy consider Averages, Gain for amt Bet and maybe you would 
21 35 8 1 8 -8 110      continue. If you do you would have got another +27 after next spin--
22 25 8 2 16 -16 94        Note: Tempting but in my opinion not worth it!!!
23 10 8 3 24 -24 70
24 30 R2 8 4 32 -32 38
25 13 8 5 40 -40 -2
26 29 R1 12 6 72 216 144 142
27 19 11 1 11 -11 131
28 30 R3 11 2 22 -22 109
29 26 R1 11 3 33 108 75 184
30 33 R1 10 1 10 36 26 210
31 18 9 1 9 -9 201
32 24 R1 9 2 18 72 54 255
33 20 8 1 8 -8 247
34 11 R1 8 2 16 72 56 303
35 0 7 1 7 -7 296
36 12 7 2 14 -14 282
37 29 R2 7 3 21 -21 261
NOTE:  R>R1 Designates numbers already repeated


[nottophammer]

2 quick games down the square +25.75

[tuddilue]

I run nottophammer number from KTF.
I realize that I need a excel sheet for calculating the result.
But for now I'm interesting if I got the starting point correct. From there the progression +1/-1 will handle the rest 

Code Select Expand

Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 35 37
2 17 36
3 17 R 35
4 26 35
5 2 34
6 22 33
7 13 32
8 7 31
9 1 30
10 36 29
11 18 28
12 23 27
13 21 26
14 22 R 25
15 35 R 25
16 31 25
17 32 24
18 7 R 23
19 15 23
20 28 22
21 28 R 21
22 31 R 21
23 25 21
24 36 R 20
25 35 R 20
26 19 20 1 My starting point with help of average and GUT.
27 2 R 19
28 12 19
29 22 R 18
30 22 R 18
31 36 R 18
32 6 18
33 34 17
34 22 R 16
35 28 R 16
36 36 R 16
37 0 16
38 35 R 15
39 2 R 15
40 15 R 15
41 12 R 15
42 16 15
43 27 14
44 27 R 13
45 3 13
46 5 12
47 27 R 11
48 15 R 11
49 9 11
50 13 R 10
51 9 R 10
52 33 10
53 22 R 9
54 11 9
55 0 R 8
56 27 R 8
57 31 R 8
58 12 R 8
59 24 8
60 2 R 7
61 8 7

What do you think Celticknits?

-Tuddilue

[Celticknits]

I run nottophammer number from KTF.
I realize that I need a excel sheet for calculating the result.
But for now I'm interesting if I got the starting point correct. From there the progression +1/-1 will handle the rest 

Code Select Expand

Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 35 37
2 17 36
3 17 R 35
4 26 35
5 2 34
6 22 33
7 13 32
8 7 31
9 1 30
10 36 29
11 18 28
12 23 27
13 21 26
14 22 R 25
15 35 R 25
16 31 25
17 32 24
18 7 R 23
19 15 23
20 28 22
21 28 R 21
22 31 R 21
23 25 21
24 36 R 20
25 35 R 20
26 19 20 1 My starting point with help of average and GUT.
27 2 R 19
28 12 19
29 22 R 18
30 22 R 18
31 36 R 18
32 6 18
33 34 17
34 22 R 16
35 28 R 16
36 36 R 16
37 0 16
38 35 R 15
39 2 R 15
40 15 R 15
41 12 R 15
42 16 15
43 27 14
44 27 R 13
45 3 13
46 5 12
47 27 R 11
48 15 R 11
49 9 11
50 13 R 10
51 9 R 10
52 33 10
53 22 R 9
54 11 9
55 0 R 8
56 27 R 8
57 31 R 8
58 12 R 8
59 24 8
60 2 R 7
61 8 7

What do you think Celticknits?

-Tuddilue

-Tuddilue

What are you thinking???
You know better than this.

You said that you were checking averages.
Remember when we are looking at averages they are for the machine you are playing and everyone should work out their own for the wheel they are playing on.

On Nottos Jackpot247 numbers for a single spin cycle we can rely on 9 Single Repeats.
You are starting to bet AFTER 7 of these 9 have already hit and there are still 12 spins left.
So this means you are hoping to get those 2 single repeats in that time.
If those two repeats are not together it's going to cost you and even if they are you will still not hit the designated Win/Stop.

Also consider that Nottos averages show there should be 15 unhits in 30 spins.
There have only been 8 Unhits since spin 11 so this means that you can expect another 7 Unhits soon.
Added to this the fact that there will be be about 3-4  more multiple repeats before the end of the spin cycle and your chances are dim to say the least of coming out ahead.

What this all means is that YOU WAITED WAY TOO LATE TO START BETTING!!!

Attached is the payout sheet for Nottos Jackpot247 8May16 numbers.
So - Why start betting at spin 18?
Remember with each block of 10, starting at spin 11, we allocated 5 repeats and 5 unhits so after spin 17 there COULD BE 3 Repeats in the next 3 spins (I like those odds a lot better when I start to bet than yours at spin 26) and I still expect 6 more to pay off by the end of the spin cycle. I I say COULD BE because we are gambling but even if they do not come they will just stack up on the following spins so I am not concerned.

Please do not take my comments the wrong way Tuddilue.
Just trying to help.

-Celtic

Code Select Expand


JACKPOT247   8MAY16
Bet Repeats using Count, Nottos Averages, LOTT & G.U.T.
S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 35
2 17
3 17 R1
4 26
5 2
6 22
7 13
8 7
9 1
10 36 9/10
11 18
12 23
13 21
14 22 R1
15 35 R1
16 31
17 32
18 7 R1 11 1 11 36 25 25
19 15 10 1 10 -10 15
20 28 10 2 20 -20 -5
21 28 R1 12 3 36 108 72 67
22 31 R1 11 2 22 72 50 117   ---   Win/Stop hit so QUIT!!!
23 25 10 1 10 -10 107
24 36 R1 10 2 20 72 52 159
25 35 R2 9 1 9 -9 150
26 19 9 2 18 -18 132
27 2 R1 9 3 27 108 81 213
28 12 8 1 8 -8 205
29 22 R2 8 2 16 -16 189
30 22 R3 8 3 24 -24 165
31 36 R2 8 4 32 -32 133
32 6 8 5 40 -40 93
33 34 8 6 48 -48 45
34 22 R4 8 7 56 -56 -11
35 28 R2 8 8 64 -64 -75
36 36 R3 8 9 72 -72 -147
37 0 8 10 80 -80 -227
NOTE:  R>R1 Designates numbers already repeated
            

[tuddilue]

Please do not take my comments the wrong way Tuddilue.
Just trying trying to help

He he no problem.  I think you always have good comments!

You always need some criticism sometimes 

In this case I think I have looked to much at gut. You know new things you always want to use a lot!

I will rerun the numbers and learn from your comments!

So thanks!

[NextYear]

---> Reply #501

Here we can see Celtic at his best...!

Thanks a bunch

[Celticknits]

Code Select Expand

-Notto

Have you noticed lately that the unhits in a spin cycle seems to be getting more consistantly a little less than they were.
Usually only by 1 and it does not sound like much but when you add that to the fact that the multiple repeats have increased and the % of multiple repeats to single repeats, in the spin cycle, has typically gone from 25% to 33% these factors all add up.
Just a thought.

Below is the payout sheet for Nottos 9May16 Jackpot247 numbers.
5 Losses and 2 WIns to hit Win/Stop in 7 spins.

Where else can you lose more than twice the times you win and still come out ahead?
Still amazes me that more people are not doing this.

Note: Same reason for betting entry point as yesterday.

-Celtic

[ocde]
JACKPOT247   9MAY16
Bet Repeats using Count, Nottos Averages, LOTT & G.U.T.
S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 10
2 33
3 17
4 36
5 34
6 10 R1
7 35
8 29
9 20
10 6 9/10
11 20 R1
12 2
13 32
14 19
15 36 R1
16 26
17 23
18 22 11 1 11 -11 -11
19 3 11 2 22 -22 -33
20 33 R1 11 3 33 108 75 42
21 33 R2 10 2 20 -20 22
22 15 10 3 30 -30 -8
23 36 R2 10 4 40 -40 -48
24 19 R1 10 5 50 180 130 82       ---   Win/Stop reached so QUIT!!!
25 33 R2 9 1 9 -9 73      --- Note Progression rest
26 23 R1 12 2 24 72 48 121     ---   Note Countback
27 21 11 1 11 -11 110
28 28 11 2 22 -22 88
29 1 11 3 33 -33 55
30 33 R3 11 4 44 -44 11
31 3 R1 11 5 55 180 125 136
32 14 10 1 10 -10 126   ---   Progression reset
33 8 10 2 20 -20 106
34 15 R1 10 3 30 108 78 184
35 21 RX 9 4 36 -36 148
36 5 9 5 45 -45 103
37 15 R2 9 6 54 -54 49
NOTE:  R>R1 Designates numbers already repeated
           RX Designates Repeat not bet on.


[nottophammer]

Hi Celts
Great read your last posts.
On your new machine are you collecting 60 spins? for your avg doc: as i was wondering how many non-hit come in the 60 spins, do you think it would avg out to 30.5

Like you it amazes me how people bet at roulette, tonight a young lad put £500 thru and walked out, you hear,i like this # and these usually come, Yeah well they dont do they otherwise he wouldn't have left empty handed,LOL.

yes 5-5-5 that more times than not is 7-5-3.

I suppose the management  have the beedy eyes on you, but i wont say goodluck because its not luck its knowledge, keep the good work up

[tuddilue]

...
yes 5-5-5 that more times than not is 7-5-3.

Yes I also see this a lot. I think this is the everage most of the times.

Celticknits, the tricky thing is to find the starting point and I think that is the reason why people doesn't dare to bet this. Sometimes it bites, I will try to explain..

I mean for example if average and gut is pointing to a normal gut and normal average. You start to bet at #18 then the trot suddenly change to a fast trot then you have 10 unhits in row that will bite you. Yes the repeaters will come but when?

I mean that is the tricky part. For my part I also been a watcher. You watch the trot and wants a normal trot. Then you can bet wtf and also some crossings in the end. Sometimes it bites you but that is was gambling is all about 

Yes this is more knowledge than gambling and you need to practice practice practice 

[winkel]

Hi tuddilue,

Remember, what I said: Do I bet or shouldn´t I bet? If in doubt don´t bet. It´s just that simple.

The next spin will tell you right or wrong. And it tells you: Is it till average? Is it changing to slow/fast?

Not betting means not losing!
Bet only when you are sure of what you are doing.
Exercise will give you the feeling to be right or to be wrong.

[Celticknits]

Hi Celts
Great read your last posts.
On your new machine are you collecting 60 spins? for your avg doc: as i was wondering how many non-hit come in the 60 spins, do you think it would avg out to 30.5

Like you it amazes me how people bet at roulette, tonight a young lad put £500 thru and walked out, you hear,i like this # and these usually come, Yeah well they dont do they otherwise he wouldn't have left empty handed,LOL.

yes 5-5-5 that more times than not is 7-5-3.

I suppose the management  have the beedy eyes on you, but i wont say goodluck because its not luck its knowledge, keep the good work up

-Notto

To answer your question - Yes I think that it would average out to about 30 Unhits in 60 spins on my new machines.
With these new machines there is not enough betting time to play KTF but so far still no losses on Repeats.
These machines average about 3min5secs for each spin cycle and the marquee only displays the last 20 numbers.
When I arrive I mark the last 11 numbers on the sheet and start looking for a betting entry point.
I still do not trust these machines and have never stayed for 60 spins.

Because I cannot play KTF For a change of pace I switch over to BJ every now and again.

Just to clarify, for others reading this, the 7-5-3 count that Notto refers to above are the Unhits NOT Repeats. Would be great if they were Repeat averages because our starting bet would be a lower.

As everyone is aware the main trick to winning is knowing the right betting entry point and it is VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE STARTING TO BET AT THAT POINT.

As Winkel, and many others have said, over and over and over again, if you are not sure whether to bet or not then DO NOT BET!!!

Last night in the casino the first machine I sat down at was spitting out numbers that I could not find a suitable betting entry point for so I just switched over to the second machine and played it.

In my opinion if you do not practice betting repeats you are asking for disappointment.
I still practice every day just to keep my edge.
If this sounds absurd or too much then maybe betting Repeats is not for you.

Here are the numbers I played last night at the B&M.
I bet 7 spins in total. 3 Wins and 4 Losses. Left the casino with +128 in less than 3/4 hour.
If you run the numbers remember what I said above - When you start to bet understand why you are starting to bet at that point.
Hint: I reset if there are more than 5 Single Repeats in the first 20 spins

-Celtic

1   2
2   13
3    35
4     1
5   26
6    11
7    0
8   00
9    22
10    26
11      13
12    0
13    2
14    20
15    17
16   34
17   30
18   31
19   36
20   14
21   32
22   00
23   20
24   35
25   33

[nottophammer]

 tuddilue
Dont know if this will help for tracking.
Blue box indicates 10 spins.
Grey box Winkel info.
As the 0X,hit and become a 1X, mark both off and in the small column put a mark of choice, if the 1x repeats cross both out and the mark of choice,then mark the 2X plus a mark of choice in the small column.
The other boxes marks the trot/count.
Also a column for KTF to help see the trot/count