The power of RTM

[denzie]

.Like what happened for most roulette results/ sessions, even chance will "try" to balance out..

With that info....what would you do ?

[Priyanka]

I just noticed that it really behaves like the statistics of a real wheel. That's why I wondered if they fixed something to get close to those statistics. For example 400 red and 300 black in 700 spins...ooo we need to wake up black

RTM has a different meaning. You don't have to wake up black! You play red, you will get the same results. Try for yourselves to see. For certain aspects, you have ignore what distribution and probability theories suggest, as it covers random only to the extend proof is available.

But how should you describe random number?  From your point of view? Or maybe that is not so simple?

Tuddilue - It is a very good question. As you rightly said it is not simple. Any set of numbers generated by a process that cannot be reproduced in a reliable manner is a random number. There are some flaws in this definition, but simply put in the context of what we are discussing roulette wheel is a true random number generator. Any numbers generated from the roulette wheel is random. Any numbers generated from RNG (in the context of things like Betvoyager, willhill casino etc) are psuedo-random. They can be reproduced if one knows the key or the algo behind that generator.

if we get 4 numbers from different places for millions time, will all the numbers balance out in the long run?

Balancing out is a very vague term. However, in the spirit of question, yes they will balance out. They will follow the same laws of distribution as if the numbers were generated from the same source.

Anyway tell me when the random is going to stop this, 122 games today lost one, maybe tomorrow, not promoting KTF as Mr J would have everyone believe, just showed how you could play a simple way.

Notto - Why overprotective. No one is saying KTF is going to lose because of random in this thread. You have 122 games. Consider we do this. Take the first spin from all these 122 games and play as a game. Take the second spin from all these 122 games and play as a game. You will get the same results that you are getting in KTF by playing them as a stream. Thats the point of discussion here.

[Turner]

But how should you describe random number?  From your point of view? Or maybe that is not so simple?

to quote the dictionary,

Random numbers are numbers that occur in a sequence such that two conditions are met: (1) the values are uniformly distributed over a defined interval or set, and (2) it is impossible to predict future values based on past or present ones

so if we see a pattern, it isnt there. We have an abstract mind.

Hi Tuner,

What you said all make sense to me but theres one thing I don't get it, if we get 4 numbers from different places for millions time, will all the numbers balance out in the long run? Or the color represented the number, example 1(RED) , 2(BLACK) etc..Like what happened for most roulette results/ sessions, even chance will "try" to balance out.. if yes, then why? TQ.

well yes...no matter where the number came from, as long as its random. I got 37 sets of spin data and  set them in columns in XL
I chopped it off at the lowest sample, like 186, and went across so 1 from first set, 2nd from second set etc.
It was 5000 spins or  so. It passed a chi square test for randomness.

So the data was totally shuffled and was still random.

If it mattered, my interference with how they came out would of showed up as the new order wasnt random anymore.

That test wasnt conclusive due to the sample size, but It convinced me that random numbers dont live in groups. They are totally independant of each other.

From that, past spins have no bearing on future spins.

If anyone has any tests to disprove that, I will gladly listen.

[tuddilue]

Tuddilue - It is a very good question. As you rightly said it is not simple. Any set of numbers generated by a process that cannot be reproduced in a reliable manner is a random number. There are some flaws in this definition, but simply put in the context of what we are discussing roulette wheel is a true random number generator. Any numbers generated from the roulette wheel is random. Any numbers generated from RNG (in the context of things like Betvoyager, willhill casino etc) are psuedo-random. They can be reproduced if one knows the key or the algo behind that generator.
Thanks for the answer Priyanka. I thought it was a process that generates the number. The thing is I'm trying to understand how it works. But it is not simple 
Notto - Why overprotective. No one is saying KTF is going to lose because of random in this thread. You have 122 games. Consider we do this. Take the first spin from all these 122 games and play as a game. Take the second spin from all these 122 games and play as a game. You will get the same results that you are getting in KTF by playing them as a stream. Thats the point of discussion here.

The last thing you said to Notto. Yes that I have also experienced. But I can't really understand how it can work. I have tested with my 70 sessions of KTF and tried to run my old random numbers towards the same RNG. For example taken 10 start numbers and run KTF and also WTF from there. It just works and I can't understand how it can do that. I get the same result as if I start to run the numbers from scratch. That I think is strange. Why? because I always thought that you need to run the numbers in a stream. But that is not the case in reality. When you are using random numbers. That I can really understand. Not right now anyway 

Winkel called it jump and some others calls it reset. That is a thing I also think is impressive. So if you just jump in a stream of random numbers than you will get a better trot. That I also have hard time to understand. But it works 

Yes I have much to learn with the random numbers. I'm starting to realize 

[RouletteGhost]

Turner

Dont past spins matter because repeats are a guarantee within a cycle

If you take a number from another wheel that is another cycle?

Can this question be answered with 100 percent certainty

[denzie]

From that, past spins have no bearing on future spins.

Then why the wheel like to balance around 1000 spins ? And it does this a loooot 

Why it doesn't get more out of balance to let's say 10k spins. Which I never saw.

[Turner]

The last thing you said to Notto. Yes that I have also experienced. But I can't really understand how it can work. I have tested with my 70 sessions of KTF and tried to run my old random numbers towards the same RNG. For example taken 10 start numbers and run KTF and also WTF from there. It just works and I can't understand how it can do that. I get the same result as if I start to run the numbers from scratch. That I think is strange. Why? because I always thought that you need to run the numbers in a stream. But that is not the case in reality. When you are using random numbers. That I can really understand. Not right now anyway 

Winkel called it jump and some others calls it reset. That is a thing I also think is impressive. So if you just jump in a stream of random numbers than you will get a better trot. That I also have hard time to understand. But it works 

Yes I have much to learn with the random numbers. I'm starting to realize 

Tuddilue,
I am liking you more every day

You have an open mind which will help you.

And you are polite. Thanks.

Its hard to undertand why something acts one way and when you completely mix it up it acts the same.

Its because random numbers dont rely on each other to make patterns. They are independant. Thats exactly why it works that way

I wonder what a 50 piece orchestra would sound like if each person recoded their piece separate and it was mixed together.

[Turner]

RG and Denzie, you wouldnt like the answer lol

Guess what it is.

[nottophammer]

I’ve taken me Stevie wonders off.
I always say your maths is right, clever people have been working it out before me and after me, but yes math is going to get it right.
Now my part you can riddle parts of math at me all day long, but I’m that monkey who doesn’t hear.
I’ll say to you I have 37 pockets due, I don’t care how they come, but they come, you can give me more math riddles but my ignorance is my bliss.
Later I’ll be at the FOBT all I’ll be doing is watching 0x,1x and >1x’s, yes the trot/count, now from my useless average document, I have my time table, my A to Z if you like.
Time to put my Stevie wonders back on.

Thank you for your efforts
John Legend 

[Priyanka]

It just works and I can't understand how it can do that.

That's the definition of random. Keep The Faith.

That test wasnt conclusive due to the sample size, but It convinced me that random numbers dont live in groups. They are totally independant of each other.
From that, past spins have no bearing on future spins.
If anyone has any tests to disprove that, I will gladly listen.

Turner - Let me divert you a little here.

Random numbers dont live in groups -> Totally independent -> Past dont have a bearing on future


As a kid I used to grow up in the southern most part of India in a place called Tirunelveli. Every winter, we used to have visitors. Right in december we have 100s of thousands of birds flying in and make this their place and they all vanish by the end of June returning to where they came from. Nice. Now the thought I have is, do the same birds come every year. May be may be not. Can we predict they will come every winter. Yes we can. Do the number of birds remain the same. Give or take a 1000, yes they do. Not a random event, eventhough certain parts of the event are random.

Drawing parallels. If you only observe numbers, they are always a random stream. No prediction possible unless you have the powers of Melisandre or Bran. But consider the relation between numbers. Are there laws they abide by. Yes they do. So while numbers are independent, the relationship is not. While law of large numbers apply to the numbers, they dont apply to the relationships. Confusing it may sound, but worth giving a thought and glad to clarify any questions one might have.

[RouletteGhost]

Lets say this statement was factual : we will have a number repeat 3 times within 37 spins

Can that number be taken from another wheel?

If number 20 repeated on a wheel and we bet it on another wheel would that make sense

[denzie]

Denzie, you wouldnt like the answer lol

Shoot

[denzie]

So while numbers are independent, the relationship is not. While law of large numbers apply to the numbers, they dont apply to the relationships. Confusing it may sound, but worth giving a thought and glad to clarify any questions one might have.

Alright. ... this is what I needed to know. Thank you Pryanka.

[tuddilue]

Tuddilue,
I am liking you more every day

You have an open mind which will help you.

And you are polite. Thanks.

Its hard to undertand why something acts one way and when you completely mix it up it acts the same.

Its because random numbers dont rely on each other to make patterns. They are independant. Thats exactly why it works that way

I wonder what a 50 piece orchestra would sound like if each person recoded their piece separate and it was mixed together.

Thanks Turner for your polite words!

Yes I think this with the random numbers has opened my mind. I can't put the finger on it but I think it is fascinating...

I have started to play around with my random numbers and it makes it really powerful when you change your starting point towards the RNG. Why? you change the control of how the game starts. That is fascinating!

I will of course come with more questions in the future 

[Turner]

If number 20 repeated on a wheel and we bet it on another wheel would that make sense

That is a fantastic question

Everyone will have a different answer depending on what they believe in.

Ill answer tonight. on my phone right now