Ways for USA players to bet online

[VLS]

Ok guys,

In case you don't know, there are ways for US players to bet online, but they do involve people with non-US accounts.

The scheme goes basically like this:

- A trusted non-us player opens an account with his/her personal data, and makes a deposit.
- The US-based player gives money and gets the username and password for the account from the non-us person.

The easier part comes now, as the US-player does *NOT* even have install to the casino software to disclose his/her USA-based IP, but the gaming is achieved by:

- Remote controlling software of the non-US player's PC. (i.e. teamviewer.com)

- The renting of a private server located in the same country of residence as the non-us player. i.e. a Canada-based player can hire one of the many flavors of windows' servers (Virtual dedicated server -VDS-, Virtual private server -VPS- or a plain ol' physical server -makes no difference-). The player(s) can connect to this windows machine, install the casino software there and remotely control it for deposit/betting/withdraw actions. For the casino(s), all of the information (IP, cookies, registry files, etc.) is coming from that machine and not from any of the connected 3rd party.

Finding such a server targetting a country is easy, just searching for something like:

rent windows server +<country>

i.e.
rent windows server +Canada
link:://:.google.com/search?q=rent+windows+server+%2Bcanada

By this means, the US-based player never even installs casino software at all, his IP never shows on any casino record as he's simply another incoming connection to the server/machine and his computer's communication "socket" never touches any casino, bank, etc.



Now comes my questions:

- This is a private player-to-player affair, does the US-government even care?

- As there is no communication between the US player and the casino and no financial connection between the US player and the casino (not even an install for casino software). How can the US government counteract this? Is there any legislation that voids remote controlling software used to connect to another country's PC and control the mouse to bet?

[VLS]

I've been betting online lately by controlling a PC with another person's account. (Not because Venezuela is banned to bet online, but because I got no access to dollars from Venezuelan banks ), so I know by fact this works.



When I'm controlling another person's PC, the casino can't know about me at all.

As a matter of fact, the player himself has logged into the casino, typing the login info and I can only control the mouse to bet.

Of course, this can't get any of us into any trouble, as a connection from Venezuela is meaningless to prosecute; but... does the US government even devote to prosecute such schemes? Are there any documented stories about people jailed for controlling a remote computer's mouse and betting?  

[VLS]

As a side note:

If this activity becomes immensely popular, maybe the laws can change?

Maybe the us-based government can be forced to unban online gambling for US players, as they are doing it anyways?

Start the debate!

[TwoCatSam]

Victor

What you're saying is totally possible. 

Here's the kicker.  What % does the Canadian/European/Australian/Whatever get for his trouble?  Does he pay taxes on the winnings?  Should the American take all the risk?  Should the account holder fund a portion of the bankroll?  Let's face it:  It costs nothing to set up an account.

If someone from Canada set up an account for me at Dublin and I put in 1,000 pounds, how do I know they would not just withdraw the money and thumb their nose at me?  I've heard of this very thing happening.

I know of no instances where anyone has ever been prosecuted for gambling via internet.  I don't think the law addresses what you speak about.  It is just to keep institutions from funding the accounts.

We are still waiting for HR 2267 to be voted on in the congress.

Sam

[VLS]

Hello Sam,

Being an US resident yourself, your input is much appreciated.

Well yes, I'm from Venezuela and if I can use publicly available free software to control a PC in another country without leaving track, you can do the same from the States: it is the same internet.

The main point for the scheme to work is TRUST: Can you find someone you trust enough? Your relatives outside the states (if any)? Trustees from the forum?

People should be able to do as they wish with their earned money. Frankly speaking I see a nonsense in the US gambling ban when what your government should be doing is looking for ways to offer your citizens legal online gambling.

Many people would prefer to play in a legally US-regulated casino rather than betting using one located on any of the fiscal havens online casino owners like so much to establish at.

It may prove a great source of revenue to take money from all of those non-us people who trust the US more than the other places backing the online casinos.

If the fear is to have gambling money leaking inter-state, then make each casino from each state to take wagers only from their own citizens when dealing with US residents.

Each state can have their own pages to complement their land-casinos and ID verification ensures that each resident can play online only at the site from his/her land-based casino location.

Problem solved.

Gambling taxes from US residents go each to the state of residence only, and it is the people from each state who chooses if they want to move their arses to the nearest land-casino or play there virtually from home, without tax evasion.

There can be room for competition among the US-regulated casinos for attracting the international traffic (i.e. bonuses, offering more or improved versions of the games, comps or points, etc.).

If this scheme could be advertised instead of the ban. It would be a win/win for residents as well as the government.



OK. Back to what reality offers at the moment.

...I want to bring this to consideration: "restraining people from doing something is simply having them finding more elaborated ways to do it".

What % does the Canadian/European/Australian/Whatever get for his trouble?  Does he pay taxes on the winnings?

The payment I guess is a monthly *rent* of the account, and the person should be kind enough not to touch the bankroll at all. It would be his business, a complementary monthly income. This motivates the person to offer a good "service" for the person to keep making their monthly payment to him/her, regardless of the wins/losses incurred.

Of course, under agreement it can be percentage wise but that would be for big winners, and we know the average bettor simply isn't (specially if he/she is going to bet slots and the other casino games with huge edges).

I know of no instances where anyone has ever been prosecuted for gambling via internet.

Would be quite an interesting to see the arguments:

--"You committed the crime of betting with your hard-earned money at home when we want you to move your arse to the land-casino. 30 years jail and no parole "

...Perhaps you US people need one case to set precedent? Is it mandatory that you must spend your hard-earned money leaving home? Can't you just bet online and declare taxes ?

And of course, the award-winning question. If you can spend your money online for buying products and services from the comfort of your home: can placing bets be considered another "service" as valid as buying an MP3 download online?

This is quite an interesting topic to debate, isn't it!?

[TwoCatSam]

Victor

There is a movement to un-ban or remove the ban.  It may someday see the light of day and it may not.  We are a hypocritical nation.  Senators who rage against homosexuals have a dally themselves now and then with a "boy-toy".  And they get caught!

It is said that internet gambling could generate a billion a year in taxes.  BUT..the Indians and the big gambling interests in Vegas and Tunica and so on DO NOT want internet gambling.  And they may keep it banned for years.

My first thought is for me to move to Canada for a time and set up a residence and become a dual citizen.  It happens.

Sam

[VLS]

Why move to Canada? You have the technological means for remote-controlled betting. And I think you already know a non-us fellow who won't hesitate shall you ask him to open and fund an account for you to play (PM me if you want to know who I have in mind).

Cheers!

[Phishalot]

Hi All

This law has anoid me ever since it passed.  But Twocats I do not see it going away, Where it origanaly came from people who want to make sure we all do nothing that they would consider a sin.  Many states are or have started land based casinos as a way of balancing thier budgets.  They now are the ones that have a hand in not removing this law.  Even though the first state to say it legializes internet gambling, will probably never have a budget problem ever again.

[VLS]

Even though the first state to say it legalizes internet gambling, will probably never have a budget problem ever again.

Maybe not as much as "ever again", but for sure taking legal bets worldwide can bring a lot.

[ScoobyDoo]

Hi Victor,

I took a look at the teamviewer.com...WoW! They want over $700.00 for it however, on ZDnet.com they have free software that will do the same thing.

[VLS]

Teamviewer is free for personal use.

I've been using it with people from the forum and no one has paid anything.

It is very unlikely you'll need any more features than what is offered for free 

[ScoobyDoo]

Hi Victor,

Ok, I'll take another look. I have request though. If I can't figure out how to install it on the other computer or I can't figure out how to use it, will you assist me? At times I am a little computer illiterate...hahahaha!

[VLS]

Sure I can!

Teamviewer isn't the only remote controlling software, there are more and arguably easier to get on running.

Try this: link:://showmypc.com/

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It is pretty straigh-forward; no registration and no install process.

Simply download and run a copy on both sides.

One person hits the "Show my PC now" button and generates the code:

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And the other person hits "View remote PC" and pastes the code:

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Pretty easy!

[iggiv]

 you R NOT

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[VLS]

Iggiv, today Scooby and I connected at both teamviewer and showmypc...

The man simply couldn't lay the bets as his connection was too troublesome (dialup)

So we learned something: NetZero dialup connection SUCKS big time!

(No wonder the name, you get zero access to all the tasty features of the net; heck, Scooby can't even get into our chat! )