@ turbo

[Steve]

Turbo, thanks for posting the chart.


1. My first question is why couldn't you achieve the same results on :.rouletteplayers.org ? I suppose the answer will be something like "I was just messing around there", or "I hadnt perfected my HG yet".


2. Considering everywhere you play, your spins are logged anyway (at least for debugging), why not prove yourself on the community ranked game? Why deliberately avoid it? And no, you never made clear why you don't play there anymore. But I suspect it's because the spins were realistic, and the results didn't suit you. Also the only logs I keep are for debugging to prevent cheating. They do not easily enable reverse engineering a system without further mods, which is not something I am doing. Whereas roulette-simulator directly replicates your bets in a manner which can easily show what you're doing. But you play there anyway. So I see no valid reason why you would avoid rouletteplayer.org if ranking high was your aim, and you really had the HG.


3. The bankroll trend chart you posted is as it is likely because:

• You used an aggressive progression and combination of bets to extend betting limits.


• The spin source is low-quality pseudo RNG, which is notorious for clusters of repeaters (Which is exactly why real online casinos don't use them, and licensed casinos need their RNG certified)


• The results are still short term

I'd say it's a combination of all. Rouletteplayers.org is a more realistic game, using real spins database. Which is probably why you achieved very different results to Parx and roulette-simulator.




4. On roulette-simulator, just like Parx, there are lots of super-successful players. Real casinos don't make so much money for players. Usually it's the players that lose money.

Let's compare players with comparable bankrolls:



Excluding you and the other hidden player with the HG, we see lots of people did well. I excluded the players who won with blatant luck in very few sessions.

But on rouletteplayers.org, these are the players with highest bankrolls:



And we can see their real win rates. Beneficia has done best because they have a positive win rate over a larger amount of spins. But 6000 actually isnt a lot. For one thing, test a random system on RX for 6,000 spins, and you'll find perhaps 1 in 15 times you'll have profited. Check the rouletteplayers.org leaderboard and you'll see quite a few players have a positive win rate with 5,000+ spins. Does it mean they all have the HG, or that it's plain short-term variance (some players win, some players lose. the more they play, the more likely they are to lose)

I'm not sure if you really believe you have the HG. Maybe you are selectively playing games that give you good results, without fully understanding why a game may not be realistic. But I think it's safe to say if you really had the HG, you would be using it to make large sums of real money, instead of wasting weeks with play money. I accept that money doesn't motivate everyone the same way. I'm not desperate for money either. But I had the HG, I;d sure as hell be making a killing from it instead of wasting weeks with play money like you are.

[Taotie]

Neither game is a fair indicator.

MPR has many issues that make it difficult for players to do well. There are a few bets unavailable to players, and the table spreads are unrealistically compressed for many of the layout positions. There is no double up button to help players get their bets down in time. The game itself is very glitchy with high impact to players using progressions and or waiting for triggers.

For example someone is playing for 2 hours waiting for a certain trigger. The trigger appears and the person bets. The game freezes and the person must refresh the game to continue. The game refreshes and in doing so removes the placed bet. The position that the player was betting shows and the player misses out on the profit. He gets the shits and leaves. He comes back another day and  tries to play again. His trigger appears quickly and he bets. He loses. He is now a loser, but he should be a winner because he got ripped off his first win. His game is tainted.

Another example: A player is deep in progression many thousands of units. He starts to place his next bet on a handful of layout positions. He places 4 of his 5 bets at the table limit. The game spits out the next result short of the 30 seconds just before the player gets to place his final bet. The 5th bet that was not placed wins. The player not only misses out on the win to correct the drawdown and return to profit, but he also loses the shorted bet increasing the drawdown. He gets the shits and leaves. He now must decide to come back and continue with the progression or purge the bet and absorb the loss with a reduced bankroll.

This is only two examples of how the glitchy nature of MPR hurts players. IMO, after players get hurt too many times, they no longer see the point of playing a fair game and just start messing around.


The Roulette Simulator is the opposite of MPR when it comes to table spreads. To sum it up, the spread for an EC is $1 to $20000...ridiculous.
The game can be played at your own pace, taking as long as you like between spins.
I can prove the game is easily compromised, which means the leaderboard is more than likely littered with cheats. 

[nottophammer]

For example someone is playing for 2 hours waiting for a certain trigger. The trigger appears and the person bets. The game freezes and the person must refresh the game to continue. The game refreshes and in doing so removes the placed bet. The position that the player was betting shows and the player misses out on the profit. He gets the shits and leaves. He comes back another day and  tries to play again. His trigger appears quickly and he bets. He loses. He is now a loser, but he should be a winner because he got ripped off his first win.

Another example: A player is deep in progression many thousands of units. He starts to place his next bet on a handful of layout positions. He places 4 of his 5 bets at the table limit. The game spits out the next result short of the 30 seconds just before the player gets to place his final bet. The 5th bet that was not placed wins. The player not only misses out on the win to correct the drawdown and return to profit, but he also loses the shorted bet increasing the drawdown. He gets the shits and leaves. He now must decide to come back and continue with the progression or purge the bet and absorb the loss with a reduced bankroll.

Absolutely right Taotie, is it the ready button? that everyone wants one to press, if i dont touch it its fine apart from the freezing of game , which like you say conveniently happens on a win, or worst still it goes off early and the 1 # that is about to be covered, does not get anything on it as the # comes early, making a loss

[Steve]

We can look at the glitches you described in time. For now we're working on fixing the double bet feature. The only glitch I've personally experienced is lag, but I found found it critical enough to affect my play. Server synchronization is essential to ensure all players receive the same spins to play. But there may be an issue we missed that causes more lag than there should be. Again we'll look at that in time.

We did a poll to see what betting time limits players wanted, and people got what they wanted.

You could miss an opportunity to bet, and would have won. OR you could miss an opportunity to bet, and would have lost. So the lag would not affect the fairness of the game.

Anyway it would help if anyone experiencing the lag can get a screen recording of this, and explain the internet connection they are using. The programmer is working on it all so there may be temporary disruption.

[TurboGenius]

1. My first question is why couldn't you achieve the same results on :.rouletteplayers.org ? I suppose the answer will be something like "I was just messing around there", or "I hadnt perfected my HG yet".

I could easily achieve the same results there.

2. Considering everywhere you play, your spins are logged anyway (at least for debugging), why not prove yourself on the community ranked game? Why deliberately avoid it? And no, you never made clear why you don't play there anymore. But I suspect it's because the spins were realistic, and the results didn't suit you. Also the only logs I keep are for debugging to prevent cheating. They do not easily enable reverse engineering a system without further mods, which is not something I am doing. Whereas roulette-simulator directly replicates your bets in a manner which can easily show what you're doing. But you play there anyway.

That's nonsense - how many times were people posting "I keep seeing the same numbers repeating in a cycle" and then a reply about how the list was repeating and various other problems in how the numbers were being picked and displayed. If anything it wasn't realistic at all. I'm sure it's fixed now - but... I won't play when my bets can be monitored by someone else. I know this was necessary because of the "cheater(s)" who I never felt were properly exposed for what they were doing on the site. Something I took the time to expose and detail to you. So if I played I used basic systems with little effort to move up the rank. I did have fun in the chat window posting 3 or 4 numbers to the other players and those numbers would always win very shortly after, I did this multiple times. I'm not going to expose what I'm doing in that kind of detail though when it can be monitored. No offense - but what is that info worth ? We all know the answer to that. The simulator site does indeed record and playback every spin but only for player's who have their profile set to public. No one can see my bets other than the people running the site, I'm ok with that for now. I can always just reset my play and erase it all.
Parx records every play as well, I have access to it - that's how I can tell you how many spins I've played, etc. But anyway.

Excluding you and the other hidden player with the HG, we see lots of people did well. I excluded the players who won with blatant luck in very few sessions.

Your "lots of people that did well" is nothing - did you scroll ? Did you look at #518th position and up from there ? lol. Those players that did well that seem impressive are irrelevant in the overall picture of the players who have lost and lost Bigly.
And this doesn't even factor in the tons of people who use the reset to start fresh. At least these people didn't (or don't know how to). I never reset once, just as I said.

link:s://postimg.org/image/y1wm8ngx7/


Add these up and compare to yours you posted as the "lots of winners"
It's very hard to have that limited 3k starting balance for a session when you have a 100k+ bankroll, but all you can use it 3k, if you can explain how I won and made a chart like that using the limited table limits and limited bankroll balance per session, I'm all ears.
Just try not to use "fixed", "rigged" or "non-realistic". It's a fair game - look at the stats page as they have results from every "spin" that's happened there - 1.7 million so far. Is it luck ? Not enough spins (which will extend until I lose, which I already said that I can't). It won't matter.

link:s://roulette-simulator.info/en/roulette-analysis

And the few people who keep saying "why not play it in the casino for real money and stop wasting your time with games".
A) As I keep saying, I DO play in the casino - I don't dedicate that much time to the games online - 15 minutes per day maybe, 1/2 hour ?, it's just a tool to show the effects of using what works. As I've also said, my results live play for $ are exactly in line with the game stats - on a smaller scale. As I tell Sir Anyone at the other forum, I'll take milk forever instead of cheeseburgers once. I prefer to win small amounts over time and be completely off the radar. I don't even use any casino's cards and I'm certainly nowhere on file, by name or otherwise.
Other people want to "make a killing", fine with me. That's not how I play and not my motivation.

The game is easily compromised, which means the leaderboard is more than likely littered with cheats. 

I've been going through that site looking for any flaws that people could use to cheat and found very few issues, none that the common player could use to "cheat". I'm curious what you found that I haven't.

[Taotie]

...none that the common player could use to "cheat". I'm curious what you found that I haven't.

Are you saying an uncommon player could cheat?

As for what I found, I can't disclose that publicly as I haven't finished cheating yet! lol

[TurboGenius]

Are you saying an uncommon player could cheat?
As for what I found, I can't disclose that publicly as I haven't finished cheating yet! lol

Best answer ever lol

[Steve]

The simulator site does indeed record and playback every spin but only for player's who have their profile set to public. No one can see my bets other than the people running the site, I'm ok with that for now.

That's no different to MPR. Although MPR has even less capacity to track a player's system.

Also distribution of numbers is one of many tests done when determining the predictability of RNG. Even with Excel RNG (one of the worst modern RNG) you will still get equal distribution. It doesnt tell you how random spins are.

Cheating the roulette-simulator would be very easy if the winnings are calculated player-side, which it appears to be. A brief look at its source and it appears to use local rng from the player's pc, specifically the javascript Math.random() function. It would be easy to manipulate the data sent to the server, which is how MPR was cheated before (the programmer did not code as requested t make winning number determined by the server, although its now fixed). I'm not saying this is what you're doing Turbo, although it's possible. I think the other possibilities I highlighted are more the case. Maybe something Taotie found is even easier.

In any event, roulette-simulator is certainly not a good place to demonstrate a system's effectiveness. Neither is Parx. MPR is a much better option for reasons explained, even with occasional lag. But you wont play there anymore, for reasons that I dont believe, considering roulette-simulator directly records your strategy. So you wont play at MPR anymore. And I think it's clear the time you did play there showed more realistic results of your system.

[cht]

I could easily achieve the same results there.

That's nonsense - how many times were people posting "I keep seeing the same numbers repeating in a cycle" and then a reply about how the list was repeating and various other problems in how the numbers were being picked and displayed. If anything it wasn't realistic at all. I'm sure it's fixed now - but... I won't play when my bets can be monitored by someone else. I know this was necessary because of the "cheater(s)" who I never felt were properly exposed for what they were doing on the site. Something I took the time to expose and detail to you. So if I played I used basic systems with little effort to move up the rank. I did have fun in the chat window posting 3 or 4 numbers to the other players and those numbers would always win very shortly after, I did this multiple times. I'm not going to expose what I'm doing in that kind of detail though when it can be monitored. No offense - but what is that info worth ? We all know the answer to that. The simulator site does indeed record and playback every spin but only for player's who have their profile set to public. No one can see my bets other than the people running the site, I'm ok with that for now. I can always just reset my play and erase it all.
Parx records every play as well, I have access to it - that's how I can tell you how many spins I've played, etc. But anyway.

Your "lots of people that did well" is nothing - did you scroll ? Did you look at #518th position and up from there ? lol. Those players that did well that seem impressive are irrelevant in the overall picture of the players who have lost and lost Bigly.
And this doesn't even factor in the tons of people who use the reset to start fresh. At least these people didn't (or don't know how to). I never reset once, just as I said.

link:s://postimg.org/image/y1wm8ngx7/


Add these up and compare to yours you posted as the "lots of winners"
It's very hard to have that limited 3k starting balance for a session when you have a 100k+ bankroll, but all you can use it 3k, if you can explain how I won and made a chart like that using the limited table limits and limited bankroll balance per session, I'm all ears.
Just try not to use "fixed", "rigged" or "non-realistic". It's a fair game - look at the stats page as they have results from every "spin" that's happened there - 1.7 million so far. Is it luck ? Not enough spins (which will extend until I lose, which I already said that I can't). It won't matter.

link:s://roulette-simulator.info/en/roulette-analysis

And the few people who keep saying "why not play it in the casino for real money and stop wasting your time with games".
A) As I keep saying, I DO play in the casino - I don't dedicate that much time to the games online - 15 minutes per day maybe, 1/2 hour ?, it's just a tool to show the effects of using what works. As I've also said, my results live play for $ are exactly in line with the game stats - on a smaller scale. As I tell Sir Anyone at the other forum, I'll take milk forever instead of cheeseburgers once. I prefer to win small amounts over time and be completely off the radar. I don't even use any casino's cards and I'm certainly nowhere on file, by name or otherwise.
Other people want to "make a killing", fine with me. That's not how I play and not my motivation.

I've been going through that site looking for any flaws that people could use to cheat and found very few issues, none that the common player could use to "cheat". I'm curious what you found that I haven't.

Hi TurboGenius, for whatever reason NEVER EVER BE LURED TO PLAY ON THE MPR.

It's there for a reason and we all know what that reason is.

[Steve]

That's right cht, its a fair game and he'll get the same results as before. Best he avoids it, and sticks to the other game which allows the server owner to conveniently replay the session. Its better for privacy 

[cht]

That's right cht, its a fair game and he'll get the same results as before. Best he avoids it, and sticks to the other game which allows the server owner to conveniently replay the session. Its better for privacy 

That's right, your MPR is the gold standard so that we can get YOUR approval. Try the dolts.

[TurboGenius]

In any event, roulette-simulator is certainly not a good place to demonstrate a system's effectiveness. Neither is Parx. MPR is a much better option for reasons explained

Basically, anywhere that I play - where I win - is not a good demonstration at all.
Anywhere that I play - should I somehow lose - is a good demonstration.
If I win for 30,000 spins it's rigged.
If I lose for 400 spins, it's a fair game.
None of this makes sense. Your proof of something working or not is only validated if the results match your opinion.
I wasn't playing my "system" on this site's game page - I played a few ways, none of which were long term winners and as I said before, I wouldn't play where my bets would be available to others to see. At Parx they are recorded, and the Simulator they are as well - my profile is set to private though, I'm not concerned.
On a gambling forum ? If I were going to play there I might as well just post the specifics and be done with it.

[cht]

Basically, anywhere that I play - where I win - is not a good demonstration at all.
Anywhere that I play - should I somehow lose - is a good demonstration.
If I win for 30,000 spins it's rigged.
If I lose for 400 spins, it's a fair game.
None of this makes sense. Your proof of something working or not is only validated if the results match your opinion.
I wasn't playing my "system" on this site's game page - I played a few ways, none of which were long term winners and as I said before, I wouldn't play where my bets would be available to others to see. At Parx they are recorded, and the Simulator they are as well - my profile is set to private though, I'm not concerned.
On a gambling forum ? If I were going to play there I might as well just post the specifics and be done with it.

Pretty obvious that's the sole purpose of this thread and MPR.

Move on people.

[Steve]

That's right, your MPR is the gold standard so that we can get YOUR approval

The gold standard is the spins, not the game. It wouldnt matter what the interface looked like. Keep in mind MPR uses a real spins database. And like I said, when Turbo played against real spins:

Basically, anywhere that I play - where I win - is not a good demonstration at all.

That's called a cop-out. Its easy for you to fall back on that, without considering the source of spins or game rules. I guess you still dont understand the math of Parx and how it gives players an edge.

Beyond spins, another consideration is things like the players getting payouts just for logging in (Parx), then huge cash bonuses that anyone can win once, then be almost untouchable on the leaderboard provided they played often.

If I win for 30,000 spins it's rigged.

Where have you won with 30,000 spins, using real betting limits, and genuinely random/realistic spin results?

If I lose for 400 spins, it's a fair game.

No, it's too short term to tell us anything with system play. Again you're falling back on easy but inaccurate comments.

None of this makes sense. Your proof of something working or not is only validated if the results match your opinion.

Nothing to do with opinion. It is a fact that real casinos don't give out free money every time you log in, or award huge play money bonuses for being lucky for the day - giving any such player who continues to play a huge advantage, provided they continue to play. The math is not my opinion.

I wasn't playing my "system" on this site's game page - I played a few ways, none of which were long term winners and as I said before, I wouldn't play where my bets would be available to others to see.

So you telling me you had one serious account and one test account means you never played with intent to become #1 on MPR?

And do you always intentionally use a losing system when trying to rank high?

And there is no way anyone but me on MPR could see the logs of bets. It is just lines of data that would be a nightmare to decode to figure out a system. That's not what it was designed to do. It was designed to check for cheating and bugs. Again your reasoning is as if Parx and roulette-simulator dont log everything, when you know they do. More so roulette-simulator. So your argument doesnt hold water.

On a gambling forum ? If I were going to play there I might as well just post the specifics and be done with it.

But MPR is a completely independent site.  It's not a forum. Again your argument doesn't stack up. Looks more like excuses to avoid a fair game.

Looks like we're at stalemate again.

On the spins I know are real and fair, you lost.

You say that was because you werent using your best system there... although you told me personally you had multiple accounts - one for testing and one for serious play. You played for a long time, but eventually stopped when your ranking fell back to around average.

Your system did well on mathematically rigged game that gives players an edge (Parx). No surprise there.

Your system did well on roulette-simulator using player-side javascript pseudo RNG - something you'll never find a real casino doing because the RNG is notoriously bad, and it's far too easy to cheat. But hey, I'm the bad guy for pointing that out, right? I just want to sell computers.

Your theories are contradictory and backwards - and typical gambler's fallacy. You say one thing then say something completely different, indicating you don't even understand the contradiction.

You are not motivated by money, so you prefer to spend weeks winning with play money, instead of winning millions in real money.

Right. I don't buy it. It has nothing to do with my opinion. The information doesnt add up.

[Steve]

This is why real casinos dont use typical psuedo RNG. Here's the RNG from Microsoft Windows. It's a bitmap image from random.org showing how "not random" it actually is:



You can plainly see the lines. A good psuedo RNG would be almost as good as true RNG. But random functions like those used in Excel, Java, PHP, Linux, Windows etc are very poor RNG.

Is it just my "opinion"?