@ turbo

[TurboGenius]

A bias wheel or worn or damaged spits out hot numbers and that can be exploited.

But a system based on exploiting hot numbers on a non-bias wheel is nonsense.

Got it. Same thing, different perspective I guess.

[Madi]

@turbo

How do u differentiate a fair and crooked rng?

Lets assume u start playing a rng not knowing that its rigged. After playing a while u got it is rigged. What exactly u look for to determine its rigged while u r playing ur hot number system?

[TurboGenius]

@turbo
How do u differentiate a fair and crooked rng?
Lets assume u start playing a rng not knowing that its rigged. After playing a while u got it is rigged. What exactly u look for to determine its rigged while u r playing ur hot number system?

I'm not sure that I understand. A "rigged" RNG ?
I know Steve calls the places that I play at "rigged" due to the bonus credits they give you - or the table limits spread being wide - but the RNG at any of these sites seems to be fine.
If it's Parx online for fun or Golden Nugget for real - or any other online source of spins, I always play along with Roulette Extreme running, I input every spin as they happen.
If I'm in the casino and writing spins down, I'll put them in RX when I get home to re-create the session for analysis.
RX gives a readout for Wheel Analysis that gives you data for any spins you've played or entered.
It shows the chi-square result, test % and a PASS or FAIL for the wheel being bias or not.
This isn't perfect at all, but it's something.
Bago pointed out to me a long time ago (and I was wrong) that even a RNG over a large number of spins can fail this "test" and result in what would appear to be a bias RNG (since there's no wheel).
This means in the "real world" with actual wheels, a bias player needs to visually see a defect. Recording spins and testing them will tell them if they have a bias wheel or not, but just like the RNG - it could show a bias wheel results and NOT be one. So they need visual proof to begin with, etc. etc.
I'm happy with the spins I plug into RX and then checking the wheel analysis - but either way, if it's a live wheel or RNG it could show a bias result or a non-bias result because it requires more spins to be "sure" than I ever play in one sitting.
Hope it helps and answers your question.

[The General]

A bias wheel or worn or damaged spits out hot numbers and that can be exploited.

But a system based on exploiting hot numbers on a non-bias wheel is nonsense.

Exactly!  Finally you understand!

[Madi]

@ turbo

No i m saying those rng which can monitor ur bet and avoid the big bet that u place but still that can keep the law of third accurate

[Steve]

Turbo, your deluded contradictory rants are going in circles. At least smarter people know better.

[falkor2k15]

Turbo, your deluded contradictory rants are going in circles. At least smarter people know better.

I doubt if he's deluded, but there are magicians trying to outdo the next magician..

[The General]

This means in the "real world" with actual wheels, a bias player needs to visually see a defect. Recording spins and testing them will tell them if they have a bias wheel or not, but just like the RNG - it could show a bias wheel results and NOT be one. So they need visual proof to begin with, etc. etc.

Yes, RNGs can fail a chi square test and produce a slightly elevated chi square of 50 or 60 but that's not really considered bias after 10k or more spins.  It's just an anomaly.  With true biased wheels we're looking for chi squares in the hundreds.  A chi of 150 to maybe 300 or more depending on the number of spins collected.  A small sample of a few hundred or few thousand spins isn't going to produce a super high chi square. The larger the sample tested, the larger the standard deviations and chi square will grow.

There's really no mistaking a biased wheel for a random anomaly.  If you're not sure, then chances are you can't identify a defect or your need more data.

[TurboGenius]

A chi of 150 to maybe 300 or more depending on the number of spins collected.

And this amazingly doesn't show up on the Casino's software ?
Or they just don't care and let it go on ?
I'm sure this stuff is monitored, isn't it ?
Isn't there some red light that blinks in a back office somewhere when such a
obvious bias comes up on the screen ?
Curious how a wheel bias player can visually spot a potential bias, take spins and analyze the results and then with enough confidence risk lots of money on something
that the casino has to surely know about...

[winkel]

Nowadays every wheel is monitored not only by chi-tests. They would never ever allow such a CHI-Difference.

So this guy proofed being a fool himself.

[Steve]

Modern bias analysis uses a lot more than chi tests. If you rely on chi testing alone it is far too difficult to find a wheel.

[TurboGenius]

So this guy proofed being a fool himself.

I didn't mean to imply that it's impossible, just asking that since technology
is what it is, the wheels are monitored and someone who would exploit a bias wheel
once finding it - fine.. but common sense tells me there is a alert they get well before hand that the wheel has issues. Now they might ignore this or not think it's important enough to worry about and then the player could attack such a wheel.
But again, common sense says Joe Bias has won 20k on this wheel and someone has to say "hey, that's the wheel we had problems with from the data collected" and poof, party is over.
So it's a game of the bias player having to exploit it before a casino would notice and correct it - which I'm sure works in some cases. Just curious.

[nottophammer]

Nah they'd correct it bloody quick

[TurboGenius]

Nah they'd correct it bloody quick

I'm not so sure.
I'm thinking of the analogy of a part on a car that's broken or needs repair
and the driver thinks "I can drive this another 1,000 miles without having to
worry about it" and that's never how it works out lol.
The casinos aren't going to shut a wheel down over a small bias result - like I said, RNG can even produce the same bias and there's no wheel involved.
But I find it hard to believe they are out there to exploit (other than small casinos)
where the casino is putting off the repair, doesn't know about, or whatever else it takes to allow the bias wheel player to attack it.
Contrary to what it seems to the rest of us - it's not easy, it's complicated and a hell of a challenge to use anything like that and probably gets harder each day.
I'm sure they'll say bias wheel exploitation and computers are easy and blah blah.
I'm saying it can't be that easy in reality unless you have a casino that just isn't paying attention or doesn't care until after the fact.

[Steve]

The main thing that makes bias difficult is time.

As for computers, point at any wheel and I can probably beat it with 20%+ edge with my eyes closed.