@ turbo

[falkor2k15]

Falkner, your tests are not applicable to what we are talking about.  You seem to be stuck on testing dozens.

Try this.  Track all numbers until you get first repeat.  Now play that repeat.  Add new repeats as they appear.  When one of your numbers hit, record the data.  Now play the hit number...this number is the first one that repeated a 2nd time.  Add any new 2nd time repeaters until you get a hit, then record data.

Basically, you want to treat each one like a new session.  1 repeaters becoming 2 is one session.  2 repeaters becoming 3 is another session.  Etc, etc. 

From my testing, there is usually 1 number that repeats at least 9 times before all other numbers have hit. 

Now, look at the relationships between the 8 sessions.  Are there opportunities in there to profit?  I would say yes, with right money management.  This can win to the unequal distribution of numbers....one will eventually outshine the rest.  The only way it could lose is if everything falls equally each and every time (all 2s fall before 3s, then all 3s fall before 4s, etc)...this will not happen

You really don't know what you are talking about. You sound like somebody recommending we bet 5 lines instead of 1 because we have 83% chance of winning and outshining the other line. Such naivety just makes me want to puke. There's no profit in hot numbers; it's part of the break even game as we keep telling you. All numbers are independent random bets - hot or cold notwithstanding.

Dozens, lines, streets, numbers.... doesn't matter. They all have proportionate ratios and payout odds and they can all be tracked in terms of uniques and repeats depending on a viewpoint. Playing any hottie will break even regardless of what playing position/group you choose to play. I only demonstrated with dozens so even vulnerable people can come to understand that hot/cold over X repeats is a losing proposition. 

Why don't you go jump off a cliff instead of telling other people to? Your suggestions sound completely delusional and have no basis in reality. I don't think you've even tested. You just like to give empty advice, tell people what to do, and hope everyone will go round clutching at straws resulting in a successful manipulation attempt. Words are cheap when not backed up with evidence. Hopefully others are wise enough to see through this nonsense.

I really feel for Steve having to run this forum where people keep chatting random rubbish everyday. It's more like a doll's house than a serious place for discussion.

[Andre Chass]

@Falkor

I've been following your posts and it seems to me that you have made it clear that there is no way to win in the long run betting on hot numbers or non hit numbers.

Your tests have proven what many of us already knew and you spared us a lot of time.

Thanks a lot!

[falkor2k15]

@Falkor

I've been following your posts and it seems to me that you have made it clear that there is no way to win in the long run betting on hot numbers or non hit numbers.

Your tests have proven what many of us already knew and you spared us a lot of time.

Thanks a lot!

I can't prove that it's unbeatable - there may still be a way to win - but these fairy tale topics do not help progress any new understandings and serve selfish agendas instead with circular conversations about hot numbers. So the problem is not how to beat Roulette - but how to avoid false prophets/clowns along the way.

[cht]

This is my final post on this topic.

Thank you TG. I can't thank you enough.

ok, The roulette "experts" can take over this thread. 

[falkor2k15]

This is my final post on this topic.

Thank you TG. I can't thank you enough.

ok, The roulette "experts" can take over this thread. 

Not experts... just people who have carried out hundreds of man hours of honest testing to find out the truth. Not experts... just people who know when a game is being played.

[Scarface]

Why don't you go jump off a cliff instead of telling other people to? Your suggestions sound completely delusional and have no basis in reality. I don't think you've even tested. You just like to give empty advice, tell people what to do, and hope everyone will go round clutching at straws resulting in a successful manipulation attempt. Words are cheap when not backed up with evidence. Hopefully others are wise enough to see through this nonsense.

Really?  Coming from the flat earth guy?   

I haven't told anyone how to play.  In fact, I change the way I play from time to time constantly trying to perfect my game.  If you know how predictable random is, and how probability works, there are many ways to play this!

I know I will not see 36 numbers without a repeat in 36 spins.  I know I will not see 36 numbers repeat once before one repeats twice.  I can expect that at least 10 or 12 numbers will not show in 36 spins, and most of the time there will be at least one or more number show 3 times.  I know that the ratio of hottest number vs coldest number will usually reach at least 9-1.  I know that the front runner repeater, will usually outpace the 2nd place repeater at some point in 100 spins. 

Falknor, if you want evidence, then test for yourself.  Random is predictable.  I normally test 108 spins (3 cycles of 36).  You can test any number of spins.  There will always be an unequal distribution of numbers.  There will always be a wide margin between hottest and coldest number.  There is a lot of information you can get to make your own game.

Its not as easy as looking at the marquee, and putting your money on the 4 hottest numbers and playing indefinitely.  You can do something like that, and run silly 1 million simulations and say "Hey this don't work!".  And that's because you don't get it.

[falkor2k15]

Really?  Coming from the flat earth guy?   

I haven't told anyone how to play.  In fact, I change the way I play from time to time constantly trying to perfect my game.  If you know how predictable random is, and how probability works, there are many ways to play this!

I know I will not see 36 numbers without a repeat in 36 spins.  I know I will not see 36 numbers repeat once before one repeats twice.  I can expect that at least 10 or 12 numbers will not show in 36 spins, and most of the time there will be at least one or more number show 3 times.  I know that the ratio of hottest number vs coldest number will usually reach at least 9-1.  I know that the front runner repeater, will usually outpace the 2nd place repeater at some point in 100 spins. 

Falknor, if you want evidence, then test for yourself.  Random is predictable.  I normally test 108 spins (3 cycles of 36).  You can test any number of spins.  There will always be an unequal distribution of numbers.  There will always be a wide margin between hottest and coldest number.  There is a lot of information you can get to make your own game.

Its not as easy as looking at the marquee, and putting your money on the 4 hottest numbers and playing indefinitely.  You can do something like that, and run silly 1 million simulations and say "Hey this don't work!".  And that's because you don't get it.

For the past 500 years the globe earth joke has been on people like you, and for the past 2,000 years the Christianity joke has been on people like you and your ancestors. Even though you've already been hit by karma you continue to dish out BS about Roulette.

Random is only predictable in terms of the averages, but the casino doesn't take bets for Law of the Third to happen. The casino doesn't take a bet that a number will repeat before 36 spins. You can only bet on a spin-by-spin basis, hence the game is entirely *unpredictable* from that perspective. If you bothered reading my posts you will see that repeats and unequal distributions happen naturally whilst you are placing static independent bets on equally-likely numbers. The Law of the Third does not imply profit. I even provided test results to prove how betting hot numbers will lose to the house advantage and break the bank in the process, and that there is only a limited way you can play hotties - best understood using dozens. So if you try following LOTT any which way you will break even as simplified below.

Take heed:
1) Repeats could be another man's unique and hide the fact you are playing independent static bets on a spin-by-spin basis.
2) Whether you bet a repeat or unique you are really betting a single spin based on a ratio with a proportionate payout. You are not predicting anything. You are profiting/losing based on proportionate risk/reward per spin.
3) A repeat is more common but will cost more with less payout, resulting in break even.
4) There's only so many ways of playing hotties/front runners - simplified using dozens - all variations resulting in break even because of points 1 and 2.
5) Add zeroes to the mix and you'll definitely lose.
6) Front runners get over-taken and lose as often as they win, hence break even and if using a progression, bank breaking.

So don't patronise people with random being predictable because it doesn't work that way. The averages and LOTT over many spins does not equate to predictable profit on a spin-by-spin basis.

This is what happens when you bet hot numbers (front runners) on the premise that only they can reach X repeats because they've repeated already:

You need a casino with $10K house limits, and it sure doesn't win flat-betting! And this is without any house edge, BV-style...

2nd Dozen repeat below: all overtaken by a sleeper..

1 1   3 3 3
1 1   3 3 3
1 1   3 3 3
3 1 1   2 2 2
2 1 1   2 3 3 3
1 1   2 2 2
1 1   3 3 3
1 1   3 3 3
1 1   2 2 3 3 3
1 1   3 3 2 2 2
1 1   3 3 2 3
1 1   3 3 2 2 3
1 1   3 3 3
1 1   3 2 3 3
1 1   2 3 2 3 3
3 1 1   2 2 2
1 1   2 2 2
3 1 1   2 2 2
1 2 1   3 3 3
1 1   3 3 2 3
1 1   2 2 2
1 1   3 3 3
1 1   2 3 3 3
1 1   2 3 2 2
1 1   2 2 2
1 1   3 3 3
1 1   3 2 2 3 3
1 1   3 3 3
3 1 1   2 2 2
1 2 1   3 2 3 3
1 1   2 2 3 2
1 1   2 2 3 3 3
1 1   3 3 2 2 2
1 1   2 2 2
1 1   3 3 3
2 1 1   3 3 3
1 1   3 3 3
1 1   3 2 2 3 3

There's only so many ways you can play 2 repeats of a dozen based on the front runners. I can bet the front runner till I get the 2nd repeat:

11 1
11 21
11 231

Or I can stop early if I don't get the 2nd repeat in X spins:

11 23

Or I can wait out certain spins or change to a different front runner, etc.

I have tried every possible way of playing 2 repeats, but the long term result is always the same: break even! It doesn't even tilt one side to wins/losses. It's just plain old break even. I have attached a spreadsheet so people can test for themselves based on 1 million spins:
Download dozens2repeats.xlsx...

If we cannot tilt 1 repeat of a dozen and we cannot tilt 2 repeats of a dozen then it follows that the numbers game is also break even.

You are either randomly guessing or trying to follow a previous set of random past spins, so the result is the same.

12... I guess dozen 1+3 and I have a 66% chance of winning.
12... I guess a 1+2 repeat and I have a 66% chance of winning.

I never won the repeat. I won the 66% chance bet - one or more independent static bets. The repeat formed by itself as a natural pattern based on the "unique" labels I chose for 1 and 2. Another player at the table who played the 2 spins before I arrived could have labelled them as a repeat instead of uniques:
1212

We cannot predict repeats/uniques. The wheel doesn't make any distinctions - it's us that places the labels depending on our viewpoint.

I just spun number 7 - dozen 1 again:

1

Now the properties of that dozen 1 has everything to do with whatever past number sequence I decide to put in front of it:

2             1... here it's a unique
12           1... here our 1 is a 1st repeat
1231       1... here our 1 is a 2nd repeat

So it all depends what random past spins you take in order to determine whether something has repeated or not. One man's repeat is another man's unique. Again, cannot be used for prediction.

I'll prove that you cannot predict a repeat:

Each dozen is equally-likely:
1
2
3

Now I can take any 2 unique dozens and put them in front of the above, and I will end up with more chance of a repeat:
    1
122
    3

    1
312
    3

So I didn't predict anything - patterns form independent of my prediction

I blindly look back on the marquee and find a number (9) that is dozen 1:

1...

Now I have 33% chance for dozen 1,2 or 3 some 10 spins later...

11...
or
12...
or
13...

However, since 2/3 outcomes don't match the earlier dozen 1, there is a 66% chance the dozen will be different to any past (random) dozen I decide to put in front of the latest dozen:

12...
or
13...

Again, there's 33% chance we can get dozen 1,2 or 3 next spin, but when I put it after 2 previous unique dozens from the past I get a 66% chance of matching one of them - simply by the laws of number sequences (combinatorics) and natural patterns:

121
122
131
133

So the repeat has nothing to do with prediction - it's an illusion that hides the fact we are playing individual static bets - resulting in break even over the long-term.

[Joe]

If you understand what repeaters are then you know they're random. Of course, like you, I never knew what to believe and followed gurus. Nobody ever explained repeats to me the way I came to understand them and have described to you for your benefit.

I don't follow gurus, I test for myself. There are lots of ways to bet on repeaters, but since this thread is about Turbo's method, I'm confining my possible strategies to those which incorporate the hints he's given. He's said himself that the bet selection is essentially pretty simple : bet on numbers which are hot or repeating and ignore those which aren't. The missing pieces are the amount of numbers he bets on and the progression he uses. But the key part is to bet on repeaters (single numbers, not outside bets).

Words are cheap when not backed up with evidence.

I agree.

I can't prove that it's unbeatable - there may still be a way to win

In that case why are you telling everyone that it's a waste of time because all outcomes are independent? If you really believed that you would believe that no bet selection can do better than random bets, and you wouldn't bother to keep trying.

Of course there's a whole other way of looking at roulette, and that's to ignore bet selection and concentrate on money management. If you believe bet selection is pointless shouldn't that be the thing to focus on?

[falkor2k15]

I don't follow gurus, I test for myself. There are lots of ways to bet on repeaters, but since this thread is about Turbo's method, I'm confining my possible strategies to those which incorporate the hints he's given. He's said himself that the bet selection is essentially pretty simple : bet on numbers which are hot or repeating and ignore those which aren't. The missing pieces are the amount of numbers he bets on and the progression he uses. But the key part is to bet on repeaters (single numbers, not outside bets).


I agree.

In that case why are you telling everyone that it's a waste of time because all outcomes are independent? If you really believed that you would believe that no bet selection can do better than random bets, and you wouldn't bother to keep trying.

Of course there's a whole other way of looking at roulette, and that's to ignore bet selection and concentrate on money management. If you believe bet selection is pointless shouldn't that be the thing to focus on?

I already demonstrated using a simplified example of how betting only hotties is limited in variations, and is no different to playing any equally-likely number or group, resulting not in a win or loss - but in break even. The zero disguises the fact that a system can win or lose. It does neither. It BREAKS EVEN! I've provided ample evidence and even a spreadsheet - not to mention test results from betting hotties, reaching the house limit. I've explained why hot numbers - being more expensive with less payout - does not equate to profit. Look at the evidence, logic and detail I've provided and understand human nature/psychologically before you try to understand Roulette. Let me give you a little tip... do not get led astray by people's tips/advice. Look at what is being brought to the table - doesn't include fancy graphs.

I did not say it's a waste of time. I said that circular conversations about betting hot numbers is not helping us progress since it's been sufficiently demonstrated that we are barking up the wrong tree here. So by all means try to beat the game, but don't get too stuck listening to story-tellers who peddle hot numbers. Hotties is not the answer I'm afraid. It's done and dusted. I've already shown you a systematic demolition of hotties. Accept it and move on to another concept. What test data you like me to provide you before you get it?

[maestro]

hi coder joe here is one way to play with repeaters..

[Scarface]

Falknor, listen to what coderjoe is saying.  He is absolutely correct.  It's not just playing hotties.  Knowing how repeaters fall in x number of spins is Very Important...but like coderjoe says, you gotta combine that with the "missing pieces" which is money management, numbers played, etc.

Say you start playing as soon as you get your first repeat.  This is now your hot number, play it.  Continue to play it and any other new repeats that come up until you get a hit.  This is session #1.

Now, play the number that you just hit, this is your new hot number (it's the only number that has hit 3 times).  Continue to play it and any other number that has hit 3 times since the start of play until you get a hit.  This is session #2.

See where I'm going with this?  Perhaps you profited in session #1.  Then you can start over.  Maybe you lost 20 units, in session #1...this where the money management comes in play. 

Look at each session as part of a larger game.  Numbers will not be distributed evenly.  Maybe your 4th repeater hits 3 spins in...maybe the 5th? 

You do not have to hit above expectation in every session.  But KNOWING you will hit above expectation in x amount of sessions will let you know how to manage your wagers to win.

TEST! I promise you will see a front runner repeater break out in a short amount of spins.  You don't have to beat the 1-37 ratio if you're wager is higher when you do hit 

[falkor2k15]

Falknor, listen to what coderjoe is saying.  He is absolutely correct.  It's not just playing hotties.  Knowing how repeaters fall in x number of spins is Very Important...but like coderjoe says, you gotta combine that with the "missing pieces" which is money management, numbers played, etc.

Say you start playing as soon as you get your first repeat.  This is now your hot number, play it.  Continue to play it and any other new repeats that come up until you get a hit.  This is session #1.

Now, play the number that you just hit, this is your new hot number (it's the only number that has hit 3 times).  Continue to play it and any other number that has hit 3 times since the start of play until you get a hit.  This is session #2.

See where I'm going with this?  Perhaps you profited in session #1.  Then you can start over.  Maybe you lost 20 units, in session #1...this where the money management comes in play. 

Look at each session as part of a larger game.  Numbers will not be distributed evenly.  Maybe your 4th repeater hits 3 spins in...maybe the 5th? 

You do not have to hit above expectation in every session.  But KNOWING you will hit above expectation in x amount of sessions will let you know how to manage your wagers to win.

TEST! I promise you will see a front runner repeater break out in a short amount of spins.  You don't have to beat the 1-37 ratio if you're wager is higher when you do hit 

Everything you've suggested has already been tested meticulously and in great detail. Even the dozens example covers everything you mention at a microcosm. Of course you don't understand the basics about how all groups repeat and all groups break even. There's no advantage/disadvantage to playing numbers, streets, lines or dozens in terms of repeats. None are better than the other in terms of trying to escape break even. All concepts that apply in the dozens universe are also true in the numbers universe. And I already showed you how front runners can cost you your life savings. However, since you fail to acknowledge the basics there's no point me going into detail about how your strategy will break even like the rest, and that the significance you see in hotties is not reflected at the individual spin level. The more repeats you play the longer it will take you to get to the next repeat level. It's really old news. And that's why hotties get overtaken as I showed...  No money management gets around that because you can't win flat-betting and you can't predict, so you are left with independent static bets of differing sizes.

[Scarface]

It works for me, so I'm happy with it    Good luck to you!

[TurboGenius]

falkor's HUGE text font and bright red lettering is annoying lol.
Is that supposed to mean "this is fact" or "pay attention to this part". Yikes.

To those that get it - thanks for the kind words and much continued success.
To those who don't - keep studying what I said.
To those who'll never get it - work on other ways, stick with AP or whatever else you like.... repeaters are not your "thing".
200  pages in this thread and I think a lot was accomplished, despite the constant nonsense from the other side. Trying to convince them is impossible, even if you spell it out step by step with instructions it won't help. And that seems to be what they require in order to change their opinion - when in reality it just makes it easier for them so they don't have to think on their own (like others have done).
Cheers.

[Bebediktus3]

The best example of what works what not is from Blackjack. Say are one player, who ideal know how to play, use card counting, shuffle tracking, other have some system how much to bet ...
Who will win more, how you think?

The same is with roulette wins that, who predict better...