phoenix system

[Carsch]

Probaby one of the best systems around

[dennisbelle]

Session 4 +23 units.  Highest bet 4+4 (8 units).

[GLC]

Probaby one of the best systems around

Let's hope it continues to deliver.

I'm having trouble understanding your bet sequence.

It's a little different from mine.

Can you please explain.

Thanks,

George

[GLC]

I tested two sessions using spins in the Zumma roulette tester book (double zero wheel).  Both were easy sessions.  I used the 1-2-4-6-12-24 progression.  12 was my higest bet in the first session and 6 was my highest bet in the second session.  Allan Wilson said in his book "The Casino Gambler Guide" the acid test for a system was to double your bankroll 3 times so you end up with 8 times the bankroll you started with.

Session 1  +23 units
Session 2  +20 units

Dennis,

You are using a different progression also.

Can you please explain how you're playing.

You seem to be winning at about the same rate I am but I don't recognize your progression.

Mine's a little steep, but so far it's been holding strong.

George

[dennisbelle]

GLC,
   I didn't explain the progression very well.  I am playing the progression you suggested in post #16.   I will paste the info below.


So far I have never lost 2 sessions in a row and I have always had 2  or more wins between losses.

with that in mind, I think it would be pretty safe to bet 6,12,24&24 after an 11 unit loss.

If you hit the 6 unit bet on a dozen, you have recovered all 11 lost units +1.

If you lose the 6 units you are down 17 units and a hit on the 12 units on a color makes you only down 5.  A loss on the 12 units on a color makes you down 29 and a hit on the 24 units on 2 dozens puts you back at -5.

Play 6,12,24&24 again because 1 more hit and you are up and can restart.

Yes, occassionally you will probably have a loss at the 6,12,24&24 level, but I think that you will be way ahead with a little luck

[GLC]

Thanks Dennisbelle,

I think the progression from #16 is a medium risk progression.

It recovers quickly after an 11 unit loss and has very low risk of losing.

Our only question is,  Can wins stay ahead of losses enough to make this a viable system to play over the long haul.

I don't mean for hours at a time, but a few hit n run sessions each day or week.

We can limit exposure by playing either to a win target or a certain number of spins.

I'm thinking about Fender1000's system THE ZONE and how he suggested a win target of 5 units a couple of times each day recognizing that there will be days when you have a major loss.

If we are to believe him, he stated that he won so much with his hit n run method that the losses were not much more than a bump in the road.

I can't decide if the best way to play isn't a 3 step progression such as 1,2,4&4, then 6,12,24&24 then 12,24,48&48. 

If you lost all three bets with no wins you would lose 209 units.  But how often are you going to lose that many times without recovering back to 1,2,4&4.

At my current win target of +20 units, I would have to win at well over11 times for each major loss.

I also like my 4 bet method of 1) 1 2)  2  3) 4&4  4) 12,12,12,12&12 for a risk of 71 units.

The thing I like about the 4 step approach is that I think it may be harder to lose the 4 step approach 3 times for a 213 unit loss.

Testing is the name of the game right now.

Still too early for any final decisions regarding the best way to play.

Thanks for your help,

George

[GLC]

Finally had my first losing session.

After winning so many sessions you start thinking that you're never going to lose.

Was up 15 units at the loss so only actually lost 56 units.

Still up over 300 units.

Maybe the 1;2;4&4; 12 on 5 DS is a little too much like a martingale.

I think that I'll include testing the 1,2,4&4 then 2,4,8&8 then 4,8,16&16 progression in conjunction with my 4 bet progression.  Just to see which one I'm most comfortable with.

Another option I'm going to try is 1,2,4&4 then 6,12,24&24 then 12,24,48&48.

Keep  going,

George

PS.  An add-on to the above post.

I just finished another session to +20.  Pretty easy session.

I never had to bet past the 1st 3-bet progression.

[dennisbelle]

George,
    Regarding your loss, if you were using the 1-2-4,4 then 6-12-24,24 progression would you still have lost that sequence?

[dennisbelle]

More results

Session 5 +23
Session 6 +28
Session 7 +23
Session 8 +15

All of these sessions are around 30 spins.  Some times I go over 30 spins to complete the progression.

[dennisbelle]

Session 9   +22
Session 10 +16
Session 11 +13
Session 12 +19

[GLC]

George,
    Regarding your loss, if you were using the 1-2-4,4 then 6-12-24,24 progression would you still have lost that sequence?

Dennisbelle,

No!  If I had used the system you're playing, I would have recovered.

Excellent results you're having.

Maybe you've found the correct progression.

Good testing!

George

[Side B]

Thanks Dennisbelle,

I think the progression from #16 is a medium risk progression.

It recovers quickly after an 11 unit loss and has very low risk of losing.

Our only question is,  Can wins stay ahead of losses enough to make this a viable system to play over the long haul.

I don't mean for hours at a time, but a few hit n run sessions each day or week.

We can limit exposure by playing either to a win target or a certain number of spins.

I'm thinking about Fender1000's system THE ZONE and how he suggested a win target of 5 units a couple of times each day recognizing that there will be days when you have a major loss.

If we are to believe him, he stated that he won so much with his hit n run method that the losses were not much more than a bump in the road.

I can't decide if the best way to play isn't a 3 step progression such as 1,2,4&4, then 6,12,24&24 then 12,24,48&48.  

If you lost all three bets with no wins you would lose 209 units.  But how often are you going to lose that many times without recovering back to 1,2,4&4.

At my current win target of +20 units, I would have to win at well over11 times for each major loss.

I also like my 4 bet method of 1) 1 2)  2  3) 4&4  4) 12,12,12,12&12 for a risk of 71 units.

The thing I like about the 4 step approach is that I think it may be harder to lose the 4 step approach 3 times for a 213 unit loss.

Testing is the name of the game right now.

Still too early for any final decisions regarding the best way to play.

Thanks for your help,

George

I would like to confirm to you all that Fender's Zone was a WHOLE LOAD OF of not so much value!! I know, I tested it for a few months, it just fails in the end like the others. What makes it even more infuriating is that you take weeks and weeks to build up a bankroll, winning 4-5 units a day, only to lose it all in one session. Sure this is a classic scenario, but it's not so bad when you've built up the bankroll quickly. It was painful some days to win just 4 units, all the waiting and the drawdowns...   

[albertojonas]

May we arrive on a steady progression?

Maybe it is now time to build the system, if you agree George, you could post it on Full Systems section.

Cheers

[dennisbelle]

George,
    The progression you are testing is doing quite well even with the loss.  I could easily have a progression loss at any time.  Several times I have went to my last bet in the series but was fortunate to win each time.  You have tested more sessions than I have at this point so we just need to forge ahead some more.  At present I am up a little more than 240 units.  If I can make to to 1000 units that would be a milestone (for me).  I am encourged by these results but I have been in this position before only to have failure later on so I tend not to get to excited by initial results.

[GLC]

I would like to confirm to you all that Fender's Zone was a WHOLE LOAD OF of not so much value!! I know, I tested it for a few months, it just fails in the end like the others. What makes it even more infuriating is that you take weeks and weeks to build up a bankroll, winning 4-5 units a day, only to lose it all in one session. Sure this is a classic scenario, but it's not so bad when you've built up the bankroll quickly. It was painful some days to win just 4 units, all the waiting and the drawdowns...   

Side B,

Thanks for the update on THE ZONE.  I did some preliminary testing with it and as is expected, had many small wins, but I too hit a major loss which put me in the hole so I went on to other things.

I wasn't sure, but suspected that in the end it was to difficult to stay ahead.

Thanks for your input.  It settles it for me from someone who invested a lot of time testing to give a valid report.

The Phoenix system may wind up in the same pile as THE ZONE.  I hope not, but we're after the truth about any system so we don't get hurt playing for real money.

That's why it's important that as many as are interested do some tests and post a summary of each session.

Cheers,

George