Turbo Denzie or is it Denzie Turbo

[denzie]

Nothing changes the payouts. Odds of winning and the amount paid for wins are two different things.

A progression system can quite easily survive 10,000 spins. But when you lose, you lose all winnings

That's true in most cases. Yup.
But not always   

[denzie]

Don't take my word, just test properly.

I won't,  I did.
Of course if you play long enough all numbers will balance at some point. Cold get hot. Hot get cold.

But in short sessions. .....   

[Steve]

That's true in most cases. Yup.

Most of the time, a progression system will win in the short time

But in short sessions.

100 players all playing short sessions is still long-term. Who decides which players win or lose? It comes down to luck.

[nottophammer]

Most of the time, a progression system will win in the short time

Bets i've seen from you, Short time is what you play, not 1000's of spins per session, so when we know we'll see numbers repeat in groups of 10 spins, we know that some of these will start to hit above average (can't believe i said hit above avg,LOL), think about it, 4 groups of 10 spins will have shown the LOTT, whats avg for LOTT, 24 #'s, 13 repeats, I'll leave you to ponder that, 13 repeats

[Steve]

Bets i've seen from you, Short time is what you play

That's because i have other supporting data to know it's not luck. For example, plainly seeing where the ball hits the rotor, and logging how far it bounces. It isn't just blind sessions.

Like the charts i show. The chances of nearly precise peaks forming on 2 different sets, and with more supporting data, are virtually negligible.

[nottophammer]

I also give credit to Nottop in this matter -- he is also a big proponent of betting on repeaters. I just wish his explanations for all his charts were a little bit more understandable.


But, just to reiterate, I give total credit (and thanks) to Denzie and Nottop for getting me interested in this repeater number bet selection methodology.

Doc, in "so whats left" reply 46, it shows the Morts 1st 10 spins of his session, 9/10.
Reply 47 is all the spins broke into groups of 10 spins, which never gave a 10/10, a group with out a repeat, but lets not get carried away as 10/10 does happen.

So reply 48, i thought lets see if we start in a different position, how would the groups of 10 spins look, still got repeats, so if Mort had started 37 spins later, his starting 37 non-hit numbers( dont dismiss the non-hit, wins are available if you know what to watch for) still gave plenty of repeats.

Moving off topic here, but if you believe in spins 11-40 we average to get 15.8 non-hit in those 30 spins, look at the 500 game avg doc that shows is the avg for 30 spins in those 500 games, so with knowing you could see 15 repeats in spins 11-40, the smaller group, ie, one hits will hit,repeat again as they grow to 37, then wont they repeat as #'s repeat more than once.

How do we know this, well GUT tracker will show #'s hit more than once, so #'s that hit more than once are surely HOT STEVE

[Steve]

so #'s that hit more than once are surely HOT STEVE

Sure they may be "hot", but does it mean any number is more likely to spin again anytime soon?

NO. The odds don't change, at all, unless there's bias.

Ask anyone in the gaming industry. Check wikipedia. Do proper testing. This is all seriously old news and the casinos profit from the ignorance. Its all really basic stuff and casino staff laugh at the fallacies.

I understand though. Most of us had such beliefs at some stage. But when the basic facts are understood, you'll wonder what you were thinking. Just test. Use the software i published. The facts that will save everyone time and money are just sitting in front of you.

[Steve]

 regarding the 500 spin avg, its insignificant.  Do more testing.

[Steve]

Consider this...

What is a hot number?

Its just a number that has won more frequently than other numbers in the recent past.

You know a number will repeat 1 in 37 times. Like:

3,
3,

So 3 is a hot number?

Or maybe 1 in 37 spins this just happens?

Its meaningless.  Its primary school math.

Thinking 3 is a hot number is just wrong and ignorant

Then think after 3 then 3, 1 in 37 times it will become 3, 3, 3.

So what? Thats also meaningless. Just basic statistics.

It only becomes relevant of there's something like bias.  Thinking otherwise is not understanding primary school math.

[nottophammer]

regarding the 500 spin avg, its insignificant.  Do more testing.

Don't need more testing as data for rng,airball and live wheel performs as to the data, 15.8 non-hit in 30 spins and 30.5 non-hit in 60 spins, the max amount of spins for any non-hit has hardly changed in over a year, but max could increase but would it increase everytime i play, as you and others so remind us the wheel has no memory. If betting for a non-hit consideration to its max spins is paramount, lets just say after the year a non-hit has a max of 9 spins, you can bet for 4 spins, the ? is how many games win within 4 spins or better to wait which costs nothing, if missed for 5 spins you could now bet for that non-hit or wait 1 more spin, in case it increases by 1 more to max 10, but of course it's still a gamble, but one has increased there chance of getting the win.
Plenty of sheets are posted from your MPR that hit the avg's of 15.8 and 30.5 over 60 spins,
Even the Green charts that make mr T sick using efbet by Mort show the averages work fine, but it is still a gamble when we/I play

[Bayes]

There's an argument for picking hot numbers which says it's safer because if the wheel happens to be biased, then you'll be betting on the right numbers. For the same reason, it's a bad idea to bet on cold numbers. But let's be reasonable; how many wheels these days are likely to have that kind of bias?

Then there's the view that yes, all numbers will balance out in the long-term, but in the short term they can bunch together (be hot). After all, you never see all 37 numbers hit in 37 spins do you?

Trouble is, there's no reliable indicator or trigger of how long currently hot numbers will remain hot in the short term. If, say, it could be shown that if a number hit twice in the last 20 spins, it more often than not would hit at least once more in the next 10 spins, you would have your holy grail. You can substitute your own system of the kind:

If a number hits X times in the last Y spins, then bet on it for Z spins.

If you could find an X, Y trigger which results in enough wins in the Z spins, you'll have a winner. But without taking into account information other than the raw stats and probabilities which apply to the ideal game (not to a particular wheel), how could such a trigger be possible? Future outcomes are independent of past outcomes unless you're including data about the initial conditions (basically, the physics of the wheel in question). Where the ball lands is not independent of these initial conditions, but looking at where the ball landed in the last Y spins (plus how many times it did so), and only looking at that, tells you nothing.

[falkor2k15]

If you could find an X, Y trigger which results in enough wins in the Z spins, you'll have a winner. But without taking into account information other than the raw stats and probabilities which apply to the ideal game (not to a particular wheel), how could such a trigger be possible? Future outcomes are independent of past outcomes unless you're including data about the initial conditions (basically, the physics of the wheel in question). Where the ball lands is not independent of these initial conditions, but looking at where the ball landed in the last Y spins (plus how many times it did so), and only looking at that, tells you nothing.

It's like this... predicting the next spin is equally-likely, but predicting the next event over several spins is not equally-likely. So we can predict the most-likely event - and that event has nothing to do with random numbers or the fact we produced them using a random number generator. It doesn't matter what number arrangement we have - we are able to predict certain events/structures that apply to all of them. The X,Y trigger and dependency comes from the fact that each playing section/group is dependent on each other: If a street repeats then a line has a good chance of also repeating because they share common numbers.

[Steve]

predicting the next spin is equally-likely, but predicting the next event over several spins is not equally-likely

It's still equally likely.

[DoctorSudoku]

Doc, in "so whats left" reply 46, it shows the Morts 1st 10 spins of his session, 9/10.
Reply 47 is all the spins broke into groups of 10 spins, which never gave a 10/10, a group with out a repeat, but lets not get carried away as 10/10 does happen.

So reply 48, i thought lets see if we start in a different position, how would the groups of 10 spins look, still got repeats, so if Mort had started 37 spins later, his starting 37 non-hit numbers( dont dismiss the non-hit, wins are available if you know what to watch for) still gave plenty of repeats.

Moving off topic here, but if you believe in spins 11-40 we average to get 15.8 non-hit in those 30 spins, look at the 500 game avg doc that shows is the avg for 30 spins in those 500 games, so with knowing you could see 15 repeats in spins 11-40, the smaller group, ie, one hits will hit,repeat again as they grow to 37, then wont they repeat as #'s repeat more than once.

How do we know this, well GUT tracker will show #'s hit more than once, so #'s that hit more than once are surely HOT STEVE

Nottop,
It is a somewhat clearer explanation compared to your previous ones. I will take a more detailed look at it soon -- thanks for your above reply.

[denzie]

Ok forget repeaters,  dozens,  streets , ec ,....

So what's next ? Buy that Nintendo?
Seriously not sure what you try to do here but your not a roulette miracle. This game gets beaten every day. And without any bs electronics. So how about that ? Are those cats lucky each day ? Or is it possible you don't know everything there is to know about this game?  And each session always have hot numbers. And in case that rare event would come I wouldn't lose nothing.

So to conclude. ... You can't win with repeaters and I can. (Every session played and tested in rx  and available in wiesbaden )

It is what it is. Anyway happy winnings everyone.