Vdw

[nottophammer]

A mutual bet is a situation where for the next spin, you can get 2 separate APs forming -- but one can be formed by B and the other by R.

Ignoring the 0/00, you know with absolute certainty that one of the 2  APs will form, but you don't for sure which one.

Here is an example -- let's say for the first seven spins you get:

1 B
2 B
3 R
4 R
5 B
6 R
7 B
8

Now, ignoring the 0/00, you will for sure get one of the following two APs completed on the eighth (next) spin:

The 2 5 8 if B shows up.

Or

The 4 6 8 if  R shows up.

That is a mutual bet situation -- either the B or the R will definitely complete an AP. 

So which one will you bet?

There is no clear SINGLE choice for the next spin.

So doc, as its mutual for spin 8, you sit it out, is that correct, and still have B for spin 9.
Not that bothered Doc as i've better chance just watching, the you know what.

[Andre Chass]

A mutual bet is a situation where for the next spin, you can get 2 separate APs forming -- but one can be formed by B and the other by R.

Ignoring the 0/00, you know with absolute certainty that one of the 2  APs will form, but you don't for sure which one.

Here is an example -- let's say for the first seven spins you get:

1 B
2 B
3 R
4 R
5 B
6 R
7 B
8

Now, ignoring the 0/00, you will for sure get one of the following two APs completed on the eighth (next) spin:

The 2 5 8 if B shows up.

Or

The 4 6 8 if  R shows up.

That is a mutual bet situation -- either the B or the R will definitely complete an AP. 

So which one will you bet?

There is no clear SINGLE choice for the next spin.

Oh, now I understand!

This factor makes the game random

But what if we use the martingale from the beginning and do not bet this time. Just wait the B or R (the mutual bet) show up and after it come back to the game

[DoctorSudoku]

So doc, as its mutual for spin 8, you sit it out, is that correct, and still have B for spin 9.

Nottop,
What happens for the 9th spin (since that was your question) ?

Well, surprisingly,  the situation will remain muddled. We will still have a mutual bet scenario for spin 9 regardless of what happens at spin 8 ! Let's analyze:

Scenario 1: If spin 8 was B, then we have
1 B
2 B
3 R
4 R
5 B
6 R
7 B
8 B
9

In which case, you will think of betting B for spin 9 in order to complete the three APs of 7 8 9, 5 7 9, and 1 5 9.

However, the AP  of 3 6 9 can also be completed by betting instead on R !!

So you have a mutual bet situation at spin 9 if spin 8 was B.

Scenario 2: If spin 8 was R, then we have
1 B
2 B
3 R
4 R
5 B
6 R
7 B
8 R
9

In which case, you will think of  betting R for spin 9 in order to complete the AP of 3 6 9.

But you can also complete both the APs of 1 5 9 and 5 7 9 by betting instead on B !!

So again you have a mutual bet situation for spin 9 if spin 8 was R.

To summarize:
Regardless of what you get for spin 8 -- B or R -- it is inevitable that spin 9 will be a mutual bet for the above
specific example ! There is no way to avoid it !

[nottophammer]

Thanks for that doc, but there is one way for me to avoid it, like i had done up till now, that is dont use it.

[Andre Chass]

So from all that I have read and seen so far it remains essentially a guessing game.

There's nothing about non random game.

And the winkel system doesn't change nothing. He only put the 9th to 4th.

[Andre Chass]

Thanks for that doc, but there is one way for me to avoid it, like i had done up till now, that is dont use it.

I'm out of it too!!!

[cht]

Van der Waerden's Theorem will not convert the random casino games to non-random, that's a ludicrous suggestion. The next guy who mentions supposed non-random play must have gone nuts!

[Andre Chass]

I gave it a try and i think it doesn't work long term. The mutual bets killed me...

I tested winkel method too in more than 200 spins....

Needed more tests to be done

[Nickmsi]

Hi Andre

"The mutual bets killed me..."

Here's a suggestion, don't play your VDW system if it has a Mutual Bet, then they will never kill you.  Design your bet selection to never have a Mutual Bet, that should improve your results.

Cheers

Nick

[RouletteGhost]

Hi Andre

"The mutual bets killed me..."

Here's a suggestion, don't play your VDW system if it has a Mutual Bet, then they will never kill you.  Design your bet selection to never have a Mutual Bet, that should improve your results.

Cheers

Nick

Now you have my interest

How is this done

[wiggy]

Have a look at this RG

An AP can form as long as you have two opposites. So for example: RED/BLACK, ODD/EVEN, LOW/HIGH.

Now suppose next to the EC that appears, we mark down if it is the same as the previous EC which appeared or different.

Let's use SAME for a repeat EC and DIFFERENT if it changes to the opposite EC. After all, SAME/DIFFERENT are opposites and an AP will form every 9 spins using these two just the same as if you were using RED/BLACK etc.

What you will also notice is how it handles the 'terrible two's' nicely.  Instead of losing 4 units before the mutual win on the 9th spin, a win was achieved on spin 6 with an AP of 135 on the DIFFERENT. So the advice is when marking like this, just play for the DIFFERENT and not the SAME. Of course there is nothing to stop you running a few different streams.

[RayManZ]

Sounds smart, but doesn't effect that other AP's?

[stringbeanpc]

Of course there is nothing to stop you running a few different streams.

Wiggy, thanks for your input. One aspect that confuses me is "stream". What do you mean by the word stream.

[wiggy]

Stringbean, by other streams, I just mean you could run the original version alongside this variant.

RayManZ, in my testing of this way, I noticed the variance was less severe although admittedly there are fewer bets. Maybe someone could run some long tests and compare the two ways of play.

[cht]

Now you have my interest

How is this done

Two ways I can think of -

1. Last bet at spin six restart next spin, or

2. Last bet b4 mutual bet restart after mutual bet