The Denzie Way

[denzie]

And it just happend to you, how lucky you are, play tomorrow and you will see your vb 

Your the man 

[cht]

And it just happend to you, how lucky you are, play tomorrow and you will see your vb 

I plan to complete testing the remaining 2tables. Do a complete retest of all 4tables. I'll let you know if I was plain lucky today.

Todays test results of 2wheels within 30 spins -
Wheel1 1st test - 10calls, 8correct, 2fail
Wheel 2nd test - 10call, 7correct, 3fail
Wheel2 1st test - 10calls, 7correct, 3fail
Wheel2 2nd test - 10calls, 7correct, 3fail

[cht]

Thanks for the tips denzie.

[ego]

I can not see any material or information about visual ballistics with this topic

1) Maybe you can explain step by step how to measuring the ball speed and estimate it correctly
2) Maybe you can explain step by step how to measuring the drop zone where ball hit deflectors
3) Maybe you can explain step by step how to pick the correct dominant reference deflectors based upon the drop zone
4) Maybe you can explain step by step how to pick the reference number or the visual read where you get distance from point A to B (drop point)
5) Maybe you can explain how to chart and track all this information with pen and papper making notes after spin is done
6) Maybe you can explain how small the edge is with todays wheels - if any - using visual ballistics

Thanks for your time

[cht]

There's a lot of questions listed there. I, a skeptic, had the same list of questions about VB earlier. How can all that be done ?

The breakthrough for me is when this regular mate told me something that he observed/caught that made it click. Btw that guy is on it like me, no play just seeing. And that's what I'll do next week start Monday, seeing and recording notes.

I'm certain steve and denzie who have more "eyes time" on the ball and wheel should know this one all important point above all else. That is, you need to choose the correct wheel for VB, it won't work on all wheels. That means this single most important characteristic present must be stable and consistent.

Ask them both, steve and denzie, they might share a bit more about whatever. All I will say is seeing is believing. And it's a skill, you get better with more seeing. It's not about theory but requires practice, the more the better.

[cht]

The pen and paper part is not necessary for real play. All you need is your good pair of eyes.

[cht]

6) Maybe you can explain how small the edge is with todays wheels - if any - using visual ballistics

The edge with VB -
1. This mate is a regular baccarat player betting stakes 500euro per hand. He has stopped betting and turned to roulette VB recently
2. I am also a regular baccarat player with my mate. If this result today is confirmed to hold into future test, I'll drop bacarrat, forget about that 1roulette system that I'm suppose to play today, it's VB for me.
3. Did you read what denzie do the past 6months?

My biggest concern right now is how to conceal that I'm a VB player. Becos I can recognise one when I see them now.

I hope you guys and gals get the point.

[ego]

 I am not sure i understand your point of view - maybe you can tell me more about your way doing things

For example take a wheel with three vertical deflectors hitting more frequent and you know how to pick the vertical reference deflector so all the ball jumps from that point donate into same area/spread
Then the ball jumps and the scatter patterns will become so wide that it become pure guess work in what pocket the ball will rest/stop

That is one issue among others - so i would love to hear some one explain that part for me

Also No More Bets are much more early with todays dealers and casinos and all known ways to measuring ball speed is done 3456 laps before drop - you never see some one explain how to estimate the ball speed 89 10 laps before drop
Reason is that there is no more pure visual ballistics and you get elements of wheel signature into the calculation that is not that exact measuring calculation as visual ballistics

This is the two main reason most would say VB is dead and not working with todays wheels

Reason one is that you can not take advantage out of three vertical deflectors hitting frequent as you get to wide scatter patterns or to much erratic ball jumps

The second reson is that you more early you estimate the ball you less exact you can measuring the ball speed and the distance between point A to point B or visual read to drop point

But if you are such expert then feel free to explain

Cheers

[cht]

Valid 2 questions.

I'm no expert, just a rookie carrying out proper test that's all.

Of course I have to answer those 2questions myself. I have given the answer to one of the questions actually. 

I leave it to steve and denzie, the experts to answer those 2 questions if they will.

[denzie]

First..I'm not an expert. I guess it take years?

Few things imo...We don't only play against the wheel but for sure against the dealer. With steves computers I guess that doesn't matter. His camera is faster than our eyes. (Should be)
But we don't have that..only eyes

That being said...play busy tables.
To detect the dominant diamonds I don't need to explain right ? (Most wheels have them)

Ballspeed..question...did you actually practiced vb for hours and hours? If yes , couldn't you SEE after few rounds it's making the speed you can recognise?

Scatter....check the ball (not the wee wee ball as Ken calls it. That sucker jumps all over the place). There's always spins with to much scatter but mostly it's not to hard to see what the ball gonna do. (And we can't win each bet coz of that)

What does it for me ?
A busy dealer.
The dealer
The average ball
The number under the launch
The visual speed of the ball
Of course the diamonds
Average scatter
Average pockets when hit the diamond

You can read fancy stuff about vb but to be honest....pfff It drove me nuts.

My advice is to practice and train your eyes. And don't place a single bet until you can confirm your ready to place it.

Now to be honest my results aren't that good as cht. But my results are more than good enough to get my hit in 10 spin gap. (Im guessing his mate told him some good info which I'm curious about. Pm me. Lol.)

I can't get technical as I learn by staring like a zombie to the wheel. And of course in those live spin training videos with the same dealer/wheel  you can beat that TINY HE quickly. But then you gotta do it to other wheels and dealers...And So it begins.....

I did it with TRAINING.

And I also pick those vb guys out easily.

No idea if it's any help as your looking for technical explanation. I'll leave that to Steve. He's the pro

[ego]

 
Well you sure make it sound easy and is not

Most old material about estimating ball speeds is working and i know them and master most of them
But the point is that does ways does no longer work with todays dealers and casinos because they launch no more bets before six laps to end
And that is where all old ways estimate the ball speed

So my point is that if you don't know how to estimate ball speed much more early - then you can not estimate the ball later as you can not find working condition where they allow you to play and place bet predicting late during spin
So all old visual ballistic knowledge is out the window

Assume you now can estimate the ball more early then seven laps before drop - then you can not measuring ball speed as good as the other  methods that estimate ball speed later during spin - this has to do with physics and duration with ball speed
Then you get closer to wheel signature solution then pure visual ballistics

You gave a very fuzzy description about the drop zone - you can not just walk up to a wheel and say - yes only three vertical deflector hits
You need to understand what vertical deflector should be your reference deflector for clockwise direction and wish one for anti clockwise direction
Here you determine reference deflector so all ball jumps goes in one direction

About wider scatter patterns you can not find trusted peak using average or common peaks
The reason is that short medium and large ball jumps might be erratic

If we get into deeper discussion i can mention some solutions -

Cheers

[kingmaq]

Well you sure make it sound easy and is not

Most old material about estimating ball speeds is working and i know them and master most of them
But the point is that does ways does no longer work with todays dealers and casinos because they launch no more bets before six laps to end
And that is where all old ways estimate the ball speed

So my point is that if you don't know how to estimate ball speed much more early - then you can not estimate the ball later as you can not find working condition where they allow you to play and place bet predicting late during spin
So all old visual ballistic knowledge is out the window

Assume you now can estimate the ball more early then seven laps before drop - then you can not measuring ball speed as good as the other  methods that estimate ball speed later during spin - this has to do with physics and duration with ball speed
Then you get closer to wheel signature solution then pure visual ballistics

You gave a very fuzzy description about the drop zone - you can not just walk up to a wheel and say - yes only three vertical deflector hits
You need to understand what vertical deflector should be your reference deflector for clockwise direction and wish one for anti clockwise direction
Here you determine reference deflector so all ball jumps goes in one direction

About wider scatter patterns you can not find trusted peak using average or common peaks
The reason is that short medium and large ball jumps might be erratic

If we get into deeper discussion i can mention some solutions -

Cheers

very interesting

[cht]

Weekend is time off so I did some googling about this subject.

There're 3 classifications of AP that can be used in combination of each other - VB, wheel bias and dealer signature.

Knowing the wheel you play is most important, what method you play will determine which wheel you select to play. Most large casinos use the Cammegh and Huxley. Automated and RRS gives it a different twist. You need to go into details what each of them means, the differences what it does, the recent patents and how they affect your play.

Then there's the ball of different kind, how to recognise them and what difference will they make to the end outcome.

The spin is also important in automated wheels and live dealers how they launch the ball with specific protocol depending on what they were taught. There's the spin within the spin besides long and short spin.

Clocking the ball speed and rotor wheel speed that could be randomly changed mid-spin, how to synchronise the 2 of them that rotate in opposite direction and in reverse for right-left launch. There's also this decelerating air-jets which may be built in.

Drop zone, speed, bounce, scatter and vertical/horizontal(dominant) diamonds add to the chaos.

AP players have to figure out all these input factors how they want to play where they find their advantage. It's like a multidimensional maze many of which lead to dead end. The only tool they use is their eyes plus a sharp brain to execute real-time calculations to come to a decision all this done within 5seconds from launch of the ball and nmb, extra quick hands to lay the inside bets for specific zone or specific few numbers.

How is all of that humanly possible ?   

Assume it's possible, how does the casino safeguard themselves ?

RRS, airjet..... If casinos use that punters trust go down revenue hurt. AP players can recognise them if there're used.

Surveillance ?

I suppose that's the cat and mouse game going on in casinos and I'm on this learning journey. Monday here we come.

[Steve]

Its actually not as difficult as you make it sound. Although it depends on your approach. RRS is not really 360 degrees. Never seen 360. Its usually 180, and the edge is roughly halved. So a 50% edge becomes 25% which is still much higher than 2.7%. That's with a good computer. And besides rrs wheels are very rare. Best to avoid them if found.

Rrs doesn't at all affect some methods.
There are more approaches than what you mentioned.

I always tell players it begins with wheel and conditions selection. Choose well and its easy. Choose poorly and you'll struggle.

Putting it all together, its possible to beat almost any wheel one way or another. The limitation comes from mostly needing to avoid detection.

[Steve]

also yes it is like a multidemensional maze. where most methods fail is they dont properly model how variables affect each other and spin outcomes. if you check my other posts i give significant information about it.

the concept behind roulette computers is clear. you can make a simple rc in a few hours. but it will not work in most modern conditions. you need much more.

getting predictions before ball release is even more complicated. look back at what i said about cross refence analysis, to model the relationships.