Why not like AP players in forums ?

[Steve]

What i still don't get is how, when you explain it to them with verifiable proof, they still don't get it. Its like the learning part of their brain is not working. We may as well be talking to a brick. Im not being condecending. Some of them just never get it. Its frustrating.

Imagine trying to explain why 1+1=2 and they insist otherwise. It really is on that level. There are very different levels of understanding.

[winkel]

Nonsense. The kind of proof a system player gives is short term charts with spins that match their theory.  An AP explains with proper testing you see any bet selection with random spins is as useless as another.

I can't speak for others, but I proofed on millions of spins that GUT is working and I told the math and theory behind it.
But I never read such a extensive description and proof of an AP-Player of what he is selecting an betting on.

Its not opinion. It's verifiable fact. No system player has ever shown me otherwise. What they show is poor understanding, and attack me personally, rather than do proper testing.

I've shown on both of your forums. And I have never attacked you personally and I#ve done proper testing. BUT you didn't even read about GUT.

So don't complain.

[RouletteGhost]

I am with Winkel

the guys that use/sell computers and the guys that claim to only play AP.....will never in a million years say anything else works, it hurts their personal objectives

i believe GUT and KTF works only because i have seen the sheets and have tested

it just takes hard work and time

the message is getting to be like fake news, noone listens anymore....

[The General]

I can't speak for others, but I proofed on millions of spins that GUT is working and I told the math and theory behind it.

Winkel,

You've never provided math that proves what you're doing will work.  The reason is because you can't prove it.

Sorry, but that's just the way the facts are.

[winkel]

Winkel,

You've never provided math that proves what you're doing will work.  The reason is because you can't prove it.

Sorry, but that's just the way the facts are.

I did and provided the math-proof. But you just didn´t read it (I think you didn´t understand, because it needs a bit more than 1+1)
That are the facts and the truth is not your lie that is repeated again and again

[The General]

Post it here.

[winkel]

BTW

in another forum you opened a thread called "The proof why GUT doesn´t work" You stopped our discussion because you ran out of arguments didn´t you?

[winkel]

Post it here.

It is posted in this forum. Just have a look

[The General]

I won't waste my time.   There's nothing to support your system.

[Steve]

I can't speak for others, but I proofed on millions of spins that GUT is working and I told the math and theory behind it.

Please post the link here.

But I never read such a extensive description and proof of an AP-Player of what he is selecting an betting on.

Actually I provide numerous complete strategies at roulettephysics.com

I've shown on both of your forums. And I have never attacked you personally and I#ve done proper testing. BUT you didn't even read about GUT.

I don't know anything about GUT which is why I'm asking.

the guys that use/sell computers and the guys that claim to only play AP.....will never in a million years say anything else works, it hurts their personal objectives

Are you really that dimwitted? I'm serious. I don't give a crap if you or anyone doesn't like my preferred methods. My methods aren't even relevant to the discussion. You and others bring then up instead of actually considering the logic and math. You attack the messenger and think it's a conspiracy.

Instead of focusing on the messenger, focus on what's being said.

Its not a conspiracy. Is the entire professional world in on the conspiracy? Or is your understanding just really bad?

i believe GUT and KTF works only because i have seen the sheets and have tested

Considering your lack of understanding of basic math, I'll see for myself rather than take your word.

Winkel, i have an open mind. Both with flat earth and turbos approach, i waited for the facts before deciding. Please link to the proof and explanations you provided.

[Steve]

And rg, if selling was my focus, I'd be selling typical systems, instead of much less popular AP.

I didn't design this reality. I didn't make the rules that govern what does and doesnt work. We're all just passengers.

You really need to work on your understanding. It's all actually just really basic stuff. Every professional in the industry understands it. Any mathematician or educated person understands it. Do they all just work for me? Wake up, focus on the message, not the messenger.

[Bebediktus3]

in another forum you opened a thread called "The proof why GUT doesn´t work" You stopped our discussion because you ran out of arguments didn´t you?

I can suggest one simple thing. Usually, we use the term - "long run", but the same we can take simply one next spin and look what will be in it.

Say you chose accordingly some previous spins, that in next spin more preferable are hits to 1-10 pockets, because accordingly GUT now must be changed from situation 17-16 to 16-16 etc.... so you bet 1-10.
But I take simply the ruler, measure wide of pockets and find, that pockets 11-20 are simply wider than other every by 3 mm and I bet on pockets 11-20.

Now say how you think, which of us have bigger chance to win in one next spin - you, because such say GUT , or me, because mine pockets are simply wider?

[Steve]

Another way of saying it is what's the actual principle that changes your odds of winning to better than random?

In turbos case, he claimed 24 numbers will usually appear in 37 spins, and knowing this greatly improves his odds. But it's nonsense because the repeaters start with 1 win per number. From there, the odds of the number winning again anytime haven't changed. He doesn't know which numbers are a possibility of repeating until each wins once. So his claims of changing the odds based on what he explained are rubbish.

A simple way of investigating his claim is run tests to see if repeats of a number in any way make it spin more often than others. The result is clearly it doesn't.

Again it's not opinion.

I don't know what the working principle of GUT is, which is why i asked for an explanation. My mind isn't made up. I know nothing about it for now.

[Nimo]

A mathematician once said that since we don't understand everything we try to either prove or disprove theories.  Mathematicians try to work the math to see if something works or doesn't.  He said that some concepts of math that were disproved for hundreds of years all of a sudden get proved and it changes everything.  Nothing is ever totally disproved, it's always being reworked.  As he was speaking at an elementary school to try to recruit the students to enter the math and sciences fields, he brought a scrambled Rubik's cube as a visual aid.  He said there are over 43 quintillion permutations and over 3 billion combinations  there is only one solution.  With that amount the original theory and math was that it could not be solved in under 100 moves.  Eventually algorithms were created to lower that to  under 30 spins, now with newer algorithms it's under 20 spins.  He then solved it in under 15 seconds.  The point is that math is not always set in stone.  Some things can be disproved and reworked and updated. 

The problem with both AP and system players is that most gamblers don't have a business sense and or the discipline to ride it out properly. Even with a winning system either with AP or Systems, without the proper discipline they lose. 

The other problem is that they each treat each other as enemies, not as equals.  System players are one camp and AP players the other.  AP players most start as system players but failed, so they move onto AP play and tell everyone that it's impossible to win system play and system .players keep trying within the math.  Some successfully, most not. But what it boils down to is the discipline. 

For Steve, I feel sorry for him.  I know what he thinks he is trying to do is help,  In some cases he probably does.  But he gets attacked for having a hidden agenda of selling his computers.  It would get annoying as hell to be picked on all the time and anger may rear it's ugly head once in awhile and words become heated on both sides.  The General, well no comment.

Bottom line it's still the discipline that is more important than anything.

[Steve]

The point is that math is not always set in stone.

Math has never changed.

The other problem is that they each treat each other as enemies, not as equals.

Not exactly. Its the system players that take it personally.

AP players most start as system players but failed, so they move onto AP play and tell everyone that it's impossible to win system play and system

No. They just eventually understand better.

Even with a winning system either with AP or Systems, without the proper discipline they lose. 

Discipline cannot make a losing system a winning system

For Steve, I feel sorry for him.  I know what he thinks he is trying to do is help,  In some cases he probably does.  But he gets attacked for having a hidden agenda of selling his computers.  It would get annoying as hell to be picked on all the time and anger may rear it's ugly head once in awhile and words become heated on both sides

I've been attacked more than you know, mostly because of ego and envy. That didn't bother me like it once did. Actually what frustrates me most is manipulation, inaccurate information, stupid people, and ultimately ignorance. Most people are not stupid, but some are very ignorant.  Thats ok, we all begin that way. The worst of all is wilfull ignorance.