Why not like AP players in forums ?

[Scarface]

No, sometimes only ten seconds to two minutes to spot the biased wheel.  I don't usually track a wheel unless I know it's biased.
To get a chi square over 300 usually requires 7500 to 10k spins or more.   I've gotten in the habit of hunting the best playing opportunities/casinos before finding the wheels these days.

Pay attention and you might learn something.

So let me make sure I'm understanding this.  First you are saying you can easily spot a defective wheel in less than 2 minutes.  You can spot a defect that the dealer, who stares at the wheel all day cannot see...that the professionals in the casino cannot detect?

Ok, let's say you can find something the casino can't.  Then what?  Oh, you said you track numbers for 10k or more spins for a chi square test.  If the average wheel gets about 25 spins per hour, it would take nearly 17 days tracking numbers for 24 hours a day.  So, you or a few others just track numbers for several weeks totally undetected and not looking suspicious to the casino?  Ok 

Ok, now that you found your bias numbers you're finally ready to put money down a few weeks later.  So, now you'll place your bets on your bias numbers and play for thousands of spins....playing the same bet selection over and over.  Surely, this will look suspicious that the same players making the same bet selection.  Not to mention they have software tracking there own numbers. 

So, we're supposed to believe that no one working the wheel will spot the defect?  That it will not look suspicious as hell to the casino that people are tracking the same wheel for 24 hours a day for several weeks?  That it will not raise red flags that someone plays for days constantly making the same bet selection?  And that somehow your chi square results found a bias that the casinos own tracking software did not find?

Pretty hard to believe.  Maybe worked in the 1970s.  Why are you really pushing this myth so much?  Are you selling something on the backend to players who don't know any better, or just trolling the forum?  Casinos are not in the business of losing money, and you act as if none of this would not throw up big red flags.

[Scarface]

Go to the furthest point first and work your way back. I do it all the time looking at properties. If theres a discrepancy it doesnt matter.

None of this relates to roulette.

It relates to math.  I brought up the "traveling salesman problem" and the "moving sofa problem" to make a simple point.  These are 2 problems that most people could figure out on their own.  However, there are no mathematical solutions to either of these!  Look it up.  If someone uses a strategy that wins for them in roulette, they may not know how to formulate the mathematics behind it...but it still works 

[Scarface]

Before 100 spins are made, I can tell you what will happen with a great deal of accuracy.  I will tell you how many numbers will not show.  I will tell you that how many times the hottest number will repeat.  I can tell you how many 4 repeaters there will be before a 5th repeater will show up.  I can tell you alot of things that will happen in those 100 spins. 

Will I be 100% accurate on my predictions?  Of course not...but I don't need to be.  But with every 100 spin sample, my predictions will become more accurate as the samples average out.

Now, ask any random person on the street to give their predictions of what happens in 100 spins.  Who's prediction will be better?

[Steve]

- If you don´t change the odds, ...

If you dont change the odds, then your new approach doesn't work either. But at least you tried something new.

Don't you understand 36 is lower then 37?

You claim to hold secrets to math, but cant understand basics?

There are still 37 pockets ..

It wouldnt matter if you changed the odds.

- The houseedge will kill you ...

Not if you changed the odds.

- I don´t understand pls explain more and more and more ....

Doesn't it make sense to make sure we understand something before addressing it?

- Do some more testing

Shouldnt we test properly?

Math tells you can´t win in the long run

If your bet selection has random accuracy, that's correct. That's what the math is. You claim to win with math, but dont understand basic math.

- Martingale is as old as the game (even if the strategy is flat bet)

Does an old system mean it works?

Your math is wrong

Yes well I explained my understanding of what GUT attempts to do, and you didnt correct it. So I'm left assuming my understanding was right, and that your method incorrectly assumes there are finite possibilities and spins will bend to your will, like in X spins, something will happen X times. And all along you forget the discrepancy between odds and payout.

You don´t understand probability

You clearly dont. As above.

I can´t see any difference to other systems ...

If your bet selection has the same accuracy as random, that's correct. Same as other systems.

Statistics are misleading

Statistics are the past, but they can give clues to the future to predict it, but its only useful if you are changing the odds. Your approach doesnt change odds.

pls. add more boring same BlaBla to this list.

It's only blabla to you because you dont have an answer for it.

BTW: This is why forums don´t like AP-Players. You can´t reach their brain. Possibly they don´t have one.

We (APs), casino staff, casino owners, statisticians, mathematicians, and the entire professional educated world gets it. You don't.

According to you, everyone is wrong, and you are right. If you could provide any substantiating information, that might be true. But you cant. You provided your logic, we pointed out the holes, and you got angry for that. Dont shoot the messenger.

[Steve]

I answered that!
Did you read it?
Did any other AP read it?
Did anyone refer to it?

I read it. Like I said, I explained my understanding of it, and why it doesnt work. You didnt respond to correct me, so I assume you have nothing further to support your theories. So we are left with my explanation of why your approach doesnt work.

I can predict 12 numbers which won´t appear in the next spin. Can you beat this? No? Then learn about probability. Do your Math studies.

So at some point, you can say with 100% certainty which 12 numbers WONT spin next? I'll call that. What a load of bullshit. Care to substantiate this claim? I doubt it.

Do you know what the advantage of AP-Players is and why they can´t afford free winning roulette-Systems?

Here you go winkel, free:

Roulette Wheel Bias:
link:s://:.roulettephysics.com/roulette-wheel-bias/


Basic VB For Newbies:

btw. You can read nearly everything about GUT on these forums:

Yes and I couldnt find one valid theory that can be used for an advantage. I did look, but I just found nonsense. Thats why I asked you to confirm my understanding or correct me. You didnt do either. You just rambled on complaining about APs.

R u looking for visually broken wheel? Thats just kind of dreams for the people who still watch 60s vedio.

Read my page about bias analysis. It's only a fraction of what can be done. Not my preferred method, but still viable today if you know what to do.

Pretty hard to believe.  Maybe worked in the 1970s.

Actually you'd be quite appalled at the state of some wheels throughout the world. Well appalled if you work for casinos, and pleased if you're an AP. Some casinos have very good procedures, and some are really bad.

Anyway the viability of AP is not the issue here. At least for me, I'm still trying to understand:

* Why winkel believes his method works without changing the odds

* What, if anything, i am missing (he still hasnt explained it to me beyond vague comments)

[Steve]

Maybe lets take a step back. Simply what you've explained so far doesn't work, for reasons I explained.

Perhaps lets focus on WHY you think you can know for sure which 12 numbers WONT spin next. You know that would be changing the odds, right??

Please explain clear details.

[The General]

So let me make sure I'm understanding this.  First you are saying you can easily spot a defective wheel in less than 2 minutes.

Yep.  If I have good lighting it can take about 10 seconds though.

You can spot a defect that the dealer, who stares at the wheel all day cannot see...that the professionals in the casino cannot detect?

Yes, that's correct.  Dealer's aren't trained to look at wheels and spot bias.  Neither are pit bosses.  After all, they're just dealers, and dealer's that were eventually promoted to pitboss.  You think of dealer's as experts on the game.  In reality they're your neighbor down the street that went to dealer's school that bakes apple pies on the weekend. 

Ok, let's say you can find something the casino can't.  Then what?  Oh, you said you track numbers for 10k or more spins for a chi square test.  If the average wheel gets about 25 spins per hour, it would take nearly 17 days tracking numbers for 24 hours a day.  So, you or a few others just track numbers for several weeks totally undetected and not looking suspicious to the casino?  Ok 

In the US we get about 45 spins per hour on the live game.  But yes, I sometimes use a few extra people to track.  But no, we don't handwrite like you think.   Yes, it takes a while to get a relevant number of spins.

Ok, now that you found your bias numbers you're finally ready to put money down a few weeks later.  So, now you'll place your bets on your bias numbers and play for thousands of spins....playing the same bet selection over and over.  Surely, this will look suspicious that the same players making the same bet selection.  Not to mention they have software tracking there own numbers. 

In some cases I/ we may play the same wheel off and on over years, mixing in some camoflauge here and there along the way. Other times we may destroy a wheel over 16 to 24 hours of nonstop play.  Sometimes I just like a good kill.

So, we're supposed to believe that no one working the wheel will spot the defect?

Yes, that's correct.  Dealer's/pit bosses...they're idiots.   Also, contrary to popular believe casinos don't throw out biased wheels.  The reason they keep them is because they make money like the other wheels do.  I could tell you that a wheel was biased and you'd still have very little chance of beating it.  The reason is most people simply don't know how and have a very poor understanding of variance and what to expect.  Besides most system junkies have a very short term mindset. 

That it will not look suspicious as hell to the casino that people are tracking the same wheel for 24 hours a day for several weeks?  That it will not raise red flags that someone plays for days constantly making the same bet selection?  And that somehow your chi square results found a bias that the casinos own tracking software did not find?

Nope, they've got no idea we're even tracking the wheel.  After all, we're not really using pen and paper as we're a bit more sophisticated than that.

Pretty hard to believe.  Maybe worked in the 1970s.  Why are you really pushing this myth so much?

Well I think everyone should believe in Santa Claus.  Don't you?  By the way, the largest win, (well second largest since the first largest was a rigged wheel) happened in 2010 in the middle of LV Strip.

Are you selling something on the backend to players who don't know any better, or just trolling the forum?  Casinos are not in the business of losing money, and you act as if none of this would not throw up big red flags.

Yes casinos sometimes get very upset when you win.  I've probably been in more gaming investigations than you have been in casinos.   And no, I'm not the international sales rep for anything related to biased wheels or visual ballistics even though I play both.   

[Scarface]

Nothing will change with number of pockets.  Change the variance.

[The General]

Nothing will change with number of pockets.  Change the variance.

Swap the word "variance" with the word luck and you'll understand how that's a foolish idea.  "Change the luck."

Biased number hit more frequently than the other numbers because of physical reasons, so the distribution of hits in the long run is skewed.

[Madi]

Yep.  If I have good lighting it can take about 10 seconds though.

Does Ur casino got loadshedding?


Yes, that's correct.  Dealer's aren't trained to look at wheels and spot bias.  Neither are pit bosses.

So where  the casino trained staffs are?

  After all, they're just dealers, and dealer's that were eventually promoted to pitboss.  You think of dealer's as experts on the game.  In reality they're your neighbor down the street that went to dealer's school that bakes apple pies on the weekend. 

In the US we get about 45 spins per hour on the live game.  But yes, I sometimes use a few extra people to track.  But no, we don't handwrite like you think.   Yes, it takes a while to get a relevant number of spins.

In some cases I/ we may play the same wheel off and on over years,

Good to know that year after year they left it for u to exploit without any testing.


mixing in some camoflauge here and there along the way. Other times we may destroy a wheel over 16 to 24 hours of nonstop play.  Sometimes I just like a good kill.Yes, that's correct.  Dealer's/pit bosses...they're idiots.   Also, contrary to popular believe casinos don't throw out biased wheels.  The reason they keep them is because they make money like the other wheels do. 

Whats if they fix it and suck the money out of ur pocket plus other peoples money. And how can u assume that others playing beside u r not better ap than u and can destroy the wheel if countermeasure not taken

I could tell you that a wheel was biased and you'd still have very little chance of beating it.  The reason is most people simply don't know how and have a very poor understanding of variance and what to expect.  Besides most system junkies have a very short term mindset. 


Nope, they've got no idea we're even tracking the wheel.  After all, we're not really using pen and paper as we're a bit more sophisticated than that.  

Still that takes times



Well I think everyone should believe in Santa Claus.  Don't you?  By the way, the largest win, (well second largest since the first largest was a rigged wheel) happened in 2010 in the middle of LV Strip.

Was that $500 or u want people to ask u how much?

Yes casinos sometimes get very upset when you win.  I've probably been in more gaming investigations than you have been in casinos.   

Some addict live in casino. Doesnt mean they r great player bcz they spent much more time.

And no, I'm not the international sales rep for anything related to biased wheels or visual ballistics even though I play both.   

[Madi]

Swap the word "variance" with the word luck and you'll understand how that's a foolish idea.  "Change the luck."

Why dont u change the name of “ poorly assssssssembleeeed wheel”  a pure “luck”. What some ap can never seen in their lifetime just saw on 60s vedio.

[The General]

Why dont u change the name of “ poorly assssssssembleeeed wheel”  a pure “luck”. What some ap can never seen in their lifetime just saw on 60s vedio.

Well I'm the luckiessssst person you will everrrr meeeet then because I've found a gazillion of themz. 



The 60s rule!

[Steve]

I'm starting to see a trot.

[winkel]

Maybe lets take a step back. Simply what you've explained so far doesn't work, for reasons I explained.

So we are starting the roundabout again?
This is no debate as long as your "reasons" are only these AP´s BLABLA and you didn´t read the GUT-Threads properly.

I showed a graph where you can see that there are crossings. there are crossings in every sequence. I simply bet these crossings to cross.
Is this so difficult to understand?
And now: Which of your reasons did refer to this statistical phnenomenon? "NONE"
Did you proof, that they won´t cross at a rate, that allows an advantage?
Did you proof that in a sequence (where normally several crossings appear) it is not possible to gain an advantage even if some crossings are not to cross yet?

No. All of your answers are just (read my previous post of AP´s argumentation pool of BLABLA)

Did you also downöload GUTCBA? DID you just look at "What is going on" Just to get an idea of the basics? I bet NO!

[winkel]

Roulette Wheel Bias:
link:s://:.roulettephysics.com/roulette-wheel-bias/

It seems that you have never seen any homepage of the wheel suppliers.

Nowadays (perhaps not in USA where they go back to 1488) every wheel is connected to a computer.
Not only to show the spins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are statistics and permanently running CHIsquare tests. Every computer would stop a wheel if it was biased.

(See homepages of Cammegh for example)
You will stand beside the wheels for decades and not find any biased wheel to bet on.
If you luckily find one, the next day it will be fixed or replaced.