playing roulette penney ante style?

[Dered1952]

It’s good for lunch money.

Hey, you got p.m

[Winner]

Hey, you got p.m

No I did not

[falkor2k15]

I tested Penny's game/non-transitive betting - translating it to cycles:

EC Triplet   Average Waiting Time (spins)

111   14
222   14
121   10
212   10
112   8
122   8
211   8
221   8

EC Cycle   Average Waiting Time (cycles)

121   10
212   10
11   6
22   6
122   6
211   6

Unfortunately, it's not applicable in terms of edge in Roulette, a game which can be described through many mathematical truths/models in as far as number combinations go - but there's no sign of any exploit/edge/profit - maths doesn't help nor claim to help us there. Ramsey theory doesn't know we are playing Roulette with unfair payout odds and trying to overcome it.

[daveylibra]

OK forum members I am now trying to get my head around "penny-ante", maybe with your help, I can.
Most explanations on the internet use a heads/tails scenario.
So lets use a no-zero roulette wheel, high and low. Just to simplify things for this argument.
Now, suppose we have an opponent that will always select HHL.
We, then, always select LHH.
We are both waiting for our pattern of 3 to occur, so we play an up-as-you win progression on each set of 3 spins.
Would we have an advantage over our opponent? Would we both lose money, but our opponent at a faster rate??

[evs]

Now, suppose we have an opponent that will always select HHL.
Specify why is that? the classic game of pennies will not help you win roulette.

[hanshuckebein]

Just to simplify things for this argument.
Now, suppose we have an opponent that will always select HHL.
We, then, always select LHH.
We are both waiting for our pattern of 3 to occur, so we play an up-as-you win progression on each set of 3 spins.
Would we have an advantage over our opponent? Would we both lose money, but our opponent at a faster rate??

here is a table

link:://:.qbyte.org/puzzles/p013s.html

maybe this "Example: HHT beats HTT beats TTH beats THH beats HHT." answers your question?

[daveylibra]

Now, suppose we have an opponent that will always select HHL.
Specify why is that? the classic game of pennies will not help you win roulette.

It was just an example. I'm just trying to work out whether the player selecting HHL has a 50/50 chance of winning, long-term, ie breaking-even. (given a non-zero wheel.)
If not, why not? And if so, why would we not be able to have an advantage over this player?

[hanshuckebein]

these are the results of my testing in more detail:

1. dublin bet
total spins: 3981      spins played: 407      w: 206      l: 201      net: +5      1,23%

random org
total spins: 4000      spins played: 396      w: 189      l: 180      net: +9      2,44%

smarlive autowheel
total spins: 7054      spins played 766      w: 391      l: 375      net: +16      2,09%

bv nozero   
total spins: 6190      spins played 782      w: 393      l: 389      net: +4      0,51%

dublinbet, random org. and smartlive were playes on a single zero wheel with a complete loss on zero.

[Herby]

Extended version ?
link:://demonstrations.wolfram.com/CoinFlips/ 

[evs]

this is a quote from the article:
Introduction.
The most famous version of the paradoxical game penny when players
come up with a series (search patterns) of three elementary binary events
(L = 3 ELA), when L = 3, the second player wins (if desired) always. Laws
the paradoxical penny games act on both longer series (L > 3) and on
short series (templates) with a length of two events (L = 2 ELA). Difference game with
a bet of length two, from the well-known game with a bet of length three, is to
that the first player has an additional chance to win if the second player
does not know the secret of combinations of winning and losing combinations in two-bit
penny's game.
The analysis of the games penny on the rates by the length of two binary event less time consuming, so
as analyzed combinatorial options are few. In this article, the mechanisms of the game
Pennies are considered on patterns with a length of two elementary events (L = 2 El).
Table 1 presents the experimental results of competition
pairs of two-digit search patterns according to penny's rules of the game. All possible
combinations for player 1 (I1 first calls his combination) are presented in
the top, horizontal, row of table 1.

Penny's game with two bit patterns (L=2) is different from the game with
three-bit patterns so that the advantage is the player who first
calls its combination ("and 1"). The first player ("I1") can name a combination,
which, when competing with a combination of the second player ("and 2"), gives him
additional chances to win.

[The General]

this is a quote from the article:
Introduction.
The most famous version of the paradoxical game penny when players
come up with a series (search patterns) of three elementary binary events
(L = 3 ELA), when L = 3, the second player wins (if desired) always. Laws
the paradoxical penny games act on both longer series (L > 3) and on
short series (templates) with a length of two events (L = 2 ELA). Difference game with
a bet of length two, from the well-known game with a bet of length three, is to
that the first player has an additional chance to win if the second player
does not know the secret of combinations of winning and losing combinations in two-bit
penny's game.
The analysis of the games penny on the rates by the length of two binary event less time consuming, so
as analyzed combinatorial options are few. In this article, the mechanisms of the game
Pennies are considered on patterns with a length of two elementary events (L = 2 El).
Table 1 presents the experimental results of competition
pairs of two-digit search patterns according to penny's rules of the game. All possible
combinations for player 1 (I1 first calls his combination) are presented in
the top, horizontal, row of table 1.

Penny's game with two bit patterns (L=2) is different from the game with
three-bit patterns so that the advantage is the player who first
calls its combination ("and 1"). The first player ("I1") can name a combination,
which, when competing with a combination of the second player ("and 2"), gives him
additional chances to win.

What on earth are you trying to convey?

[daveylibra]

Hans, I understand what you are doing with the ABBA then bet B, but how does this connect to penny-ante?

[hanshuckebein]

hi dave,

p.a. can be played with 3, 4 or even 5 decisions. so "ABBA B" is just an extended version.