Yet another card example

[hanshuckebein]

If you buy a new deck of cards, the cards are in perfect order, i.e. all the kings, queens, aces etc. follow one after the other. then you shuffle the deck. of course the order is gone after that.

now, no matter how long or how many times you shuffle again, you will never be able to reastablish the order you've had at the beginning.

so I wonder, could perhaps the concept of entropy be the key to roulette?

cheers

hans

[Blood Angel]

Interesting thought   

[Fripper]

now, no matter how long or how many times you shuffle again, you will never be able to reastablish the order you've had at the beginning.

so I wonder, could perhaps the concept of entropy be the key to roulette?

cheers

hans

Are you sure that is right? The chance that you shuffle that exact order should still be there. It is possible, but the chance is so small that it probably won't happen in our lifetime. (Like getting 37 different numbers in 37 spins)

[Twisteruk]

Are you sure that is right? The chance that you shuffle that exact order should still be there. It is possible, but the chance is so small that it probably won't happen in our lifetime. (Like getting 37 different numbers in 37 spins)

Thats what I thought 

[hanshuckebein]

@fripper and twister

of course you are correct that somehow there is a a probability that this event might occur. but it should be very very close to 0.

this is another example I found:
if you have only ten different cards and arrange them one after the other, how many different possible sets of arrangements are there?

There are 3 628 800 different sets of arrangements possible. (10X9X8X7X6X5X4X3X2X1)

Now consider this calculation for a whole deck of cards and then start shuffeling.

I freely admit that these are not my ideas. I found them while reading about randomness and entropy. but I think that applying them to roulette could get us further.

cheers

hans

[Twisteruk]

I freely admit that these are not my ideas. I found them while reading about randomness and entropy. but I think that applying them to roulette could get us further.cheers

hans

Maybe you could expand on what you mean and how this may could help us in our quest with Roulette ?

[hanshuckebein]

Please keep in mind that this is far from being a ready-to-use betting strategy. it's just some thoughts and rough ideas of mine.

in a closed physical system entropy/ disorder increases with the passing of time.

to keep the order of a low entropy the outcome of the first spin should be number 1, the second spin number 2, the third spin number 3 and so on. now imagine you have a layout where you can move the numbers around after each spin. in this example the first spin brings the result of number 33. on your layout you now move number 33 to the place were number 1 is and number 1 where 33 is. second spin brings up number 12. so you put field number 12 on field 2 and field 2 on 12. if you do this for a whole rotation of 36 spins you will have a totally different layout because disorder increases. the changes of reastablishing the original layout by continuing your spins are practically zero.

maybe it's because of the increasing disorder why roulettesystems that rely on order fail. you know them all: wait for .... then bet, if this had not happend for .... then bet, if this has repeated for ... you should bet. if we are lucky randomness and entropy meet the demands of our system and we win. if we are unlucky they don't match and we lose.

so what goes through my mind is the following: is there a way to make make use of the growing disorder then rather to fight it? somewhere on the forum there is a thread about betting that the last 10 outcomes will not repeat. it's something like that i've been thinking about.

but as I wrote at the beginning, this is just some basic brainstorming at the moment - nothing more, nothing less.

cheers

hans