Beating the even money

[Winner]

I work on this too. Maybe we can do some privat group on this?

Winner, what happens when you loss the first 4 bets, then you start marty, and you also lose 2 4 8 16? Its just 8 loss, and can happen, no? Is not better to play flatbet?

And can I ask politely, how you discovered your betting way? How you decide when to switch and how long? I think these are the most important questions here.

Random is always changing so you change with it.
As far progression I like 1111 24816 32 64
But at time I will count the losses without playing as if I was playing then -4 comes around I’ll start not always .

[Mister Eko]

Random is always changing so you change with it.
As far progression I like 1111 24816 32 64
But at time I will count the losses without playing as if I was playing then -4 comes around I’ll start not always .

So you dont have an exact procedure how to change run to chops or chops to run?

I saw you have extremely large hitrate.  Wouldnt be better to play safely progression like Marven 5 level staking plan with atlantis twist ? Because when I add 11 1 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 it is 130 units, and sessionly +3, +9, +15 winnings not as much as would to be.

What do you think ?

[Winner]

So you dont have an exact procedure how to change run to chops or chops to run?

I saw you have extremely large hitrate.  Wouldnt be better to play safely progression like Marven 5 level staking plan with atlantis twist ? Because when I add 11 1 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 it is 130 units, and sessionly +3, +9, +15 winnings not as much as would to be.

What do you think ?

I do have a procedure .
Progression are a funny thing because even money is even money so it does matter how fancy you make you still only make one unit .
Labby won’t work
Marvin’s won’t work because your losses eventually out way your wins all those up as you win progression don’t work.
Basic Marty is really what makes your one unit the only thing I did is flat bet for the first 3 that’s really the only safe thing you can and try to keep your losses to a minimum.thats where the bet selection has to be powerful.thats all for now.thanks for trying this method

[Mister Eko]

Thanks for your answers.

Flatbet +5

2,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,1

My playing way is Marvel but with Atlantis modification. So:

2,2,1,1,2, bet 2
1, l -1
2 1 1 2 1 bet 1
2, l -2
1 1 2 1 2 bet 1
1, w -1
1 2 1 2 1 bet 1
1, w +0
2 1 2 1 1 bet 1
1, w +1
1 2 1 1 1 bet 1
2, l +0
2 1 1 1 2 bet 1
1, w +1
1 1 1 2 1 bet 1
2, l +0
1 1 2 1 2 bet 1
1, w +1
1 2 1 2 1 bet 1
1, w +2
2 1 2 1 1 bet 1
2, l +1
1 2 1 1 2 bet 1
1, w +2
2 1 1 2 1 bet 1
2, l +1
1 1 2 1 2 bet 1
1, w +2
1 2 1 2 1 bet 1
1, w +3
2 1 2 1 1 bet 1
1, w +4
1 2 1 1 1 bet 1
1 w +5

Today 3 session with this
+5
+3
+5

+13 units max drwdown -9 maximum using units 2. With 10 euro its 130 units with 50 would be 650 euro in one day.

Need to test so more !

[jono1167]

Thanks for your answers.

Flatbet +5

2,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,1

My playing way is Marvel but with Atlantis modification. So:

2,2,1,1,2, bet 2
1, l -1
2 1 1 2 1 bet 1
2, l -2
1 1 2 1 2 bet 1
1, w -1
1 2 1 2 1 bet 1
1, w +0
2 1 2 1 1 bet 1
1, w +1
1 2 1 1 1 bet 1
2, l +0
2 1 1 1 2 bet 1
1, w +1
1 1 1 2 1 bet 1
2, l +0
1 1 2 1 2 bet 1
1, w +1
1 2 1 2 1 bet 1
1, w +2
2 1 2 1 1 bet 1
2, l +1
1 2 1 1 2 bet 1
1, w +2
2 1 1 2 1 bet 1
2, l +1
1 1 2 1 2 bet 1
1, w +2
1 2 1 2 1 bet 1
1, w +3
2 1 2 1 1 bet 1
1, w +4
1 2 1 1 1 bet 1
1 w +5

Today 3 session with this
+5
+3
+5

+13 units max drwdown -9 maximum using units 2. With 10 euro its 130 units with 50 would be 650 euro in one day.

Need to test so more !

Well done Mister Eko. I like the Marvin / Atlantis method too. It will exploit dominant strings of CHOPS or RUNS.

Katalyst advised me to follow the wheel, which is what the Marvin system does!

keep posting your results please Mister Eko. 
Jono

[Person S]

And what if, up to -5, to play for the trend, and then with an increase in the rate by 1 unit and the game according to the Marvin method ...

[miniroll171]

Thanks for sharing this system Winner.

Have been looking into it and thought I would do some testing on how often Chops and Streaks appear. May be of use to someone.

I ran this through 100,000 randomly generated spins in a program I wrote, and these were the results:

Chops (high followed by a low, or low followed by a high): 25042
Streaks (two lows or two highs): 24958

The longest run of Chops in a row was 15
The longest run of Streaks in a row was 8
The longest run of alternate switches in a row (Chop, streak,chop, streak etc.) was 10

I found it interesting that the longest run of chops was much higher than streaks even over 100,000 spins, so I ran another 100,00 spins and the results were:

Chops : 24984
Streaks : 25016

The longest run of Chops in a row was 18
The longest run of Streaks in a row was 8
The longest run of alternate switches in a row (Chop, streak,chop, streak etc.) was 10

Longest run of chops is still way more than longest run of 'streaks' so ran one more time:

Chops : 24990
Streaks : 25010

The longest run of Chops in a row was 15
The longest run of Streaks in a row was 9
The longest run of alternate switches in a row (Chop, streak,chop, streak etc.) was 10

So it seems Chops and Streaks occur in pretty much equal amounts over the 100,00 spins as expected, but there might be value in betting for chops as you would suffer shorter losing streaks. You would need a progression that could overcome the longest run of streaks (9 in a row), plus maybe two extra as '0' might pop up just when you don't want it to!

So a progression that can handle 11 losses in a row and bet on chops 

If anyone would like any other data from this let me knwow and I'll program it in.

[Winner]

One way to use this Marvin’s staking plan is this ,instead of tracking L Ws you use the  1s as Ws in other words the 1s become your stakeing plan . It would have to me tested I have know time for that busy making money.
Ex 12222 your your first bet is 1unit because there is only 1 chop
      1222211 now last five results there’s two 1s your next bet is 2 units .
So use the ones as your Q to picking the amount you bet.
If someone would test this would be interesting money management

[Winner]

Thanks for sharing this system Winner.

Have been looking into it and thought I would do some testing on how often Chops and Streaks appear. May be of use to someone.

I ran this through 100,000 randomly generated spins in a program I wrote, and these were the results:

Chops (high followed by a low, or low followed by a high): 25042
Streaks (two lows or two highs): 24958

The longest run of Chops in a row was 15
The longest run of Streaks in a row was 8
The longest run of alternate switches in a row (Chop, streak,chop, streak etc.) was 10

I found it interesting that the longest run of chops was much higher than streaks even over 100,000 spins, so I ran another 100,00 spins and the results were:

Chops : 24984
Streaks : 25016

The longest run of Chops in a row was 18
The longest run of Streaks in a row was 8
The longest run of alternate switches in a row (Chop, streak,chop, streak etc.) was 10

Longest run of chops is still way more than longest run of 'streaks' so ran one more time:

Chops : 24990
Streaks : 25010

The longest run of Chops in a row was 15
The longest run of Streaks in a row was 9
The longest run of alternate switches in a row (Chop, streak,chop, streak etc.) was 10

So it seems Chops and Streaks occur in pretty much equal amounts over the 100,00 spins as expected, but there might be value in betting for chops as you would suffer shorter losing streaks. You would need a progression that could overcome the longest run of streaks (9 in a row), plus maybe two extra as '0' might pop up just when you don't want it to!

So a progression that can handle 11 losses in a row and bet on chops 

If anyone would like any other data from this let me knwow and I'll program it in.

Wow very good  . What I found interesting in your test was The alternating results .
From streak to chop to streak there is an advantage there .for it went to 10 each test you did . Good work thanks

[Mister Eko]

One way to use this Marvin’s staking plan is this ,instead of tracking L Ws you use the  1s as Ws in other words the 1s become your stakeing plan . It would have to me tested I have know time for that busy making money.
Ex 12222 your your first bet is 1unit because there is only 1 chop
      1222211 now last five results there’s two 1s your next bet is 2 units .
So use the ones as your Q to picking the amount you bet.
If someone would test this would be interesting money management

So are you think that seeing the last 5 results we place unit size? Example 2 2 1 2 2 4u on 2? Or 1 2 1 2 1 3u on 1?

[Winner]

So are you think that seeing the last 5 results we place unit size? Example 2 2 1 2 2 4u on 2? Or 1 2 1 2 1 3u on 1?

22122 only 1 unit use the chops for you decision. But this would have to Be tested have no clue on the results.

[Mako]

I ran a small test on 306 spins from a single table/single day at spielbank duisburg, acting as if I was playing continuously.

For this test I played chops only, never switching, and using Winner's 1-1-1-1-2-4-8-16-32 progression.

After manually watching it spin by spin, it seems you'd definitely need to have a switch strategy procedure in place that you've verified over extensive tests to be accurate, as winner does. The progression alone won't turn it into a winner by just blind betting chops or runs.  And of course you certainly wouldn't want to use any martingale or other aggressive progression without a perfect BS.

This was a single 0 wheel, which also reiterates the need for accurate selection as a 00 wheel would have fared far worse.

None of this is a surprise of course, but I think it's a good example of what Winner was talking about when he mentioned distractions.  We can get distracted and chase progressions for days, weeks even, but without accurate bet selection it's not worth the trouble.

It's likely not as extreme as the AP mantra of "if it doesn't win flat, then it doesn't win with a progression", but with ECs you can fool yourself for a long time even with accurate testing that you've found the "perfect" progression.

As the Baccarat guys do, we would need help in determining the sequences and resulting procedure to make switches when it's favorable, but I'm not sure how to start that process.

SESSION SUMMARY
74   Chops (W)   
74   Runs (L)   
5   Losses from 0 (79 total losses)   
      
16u   Highest progression level bet   
7   Longest loss streak   
      
+4u   Highest Bankroll   
-16u Lowest Bankroll   
      
+4u   Bankroll at end of session   

Spielbank Duisburg - Playing Chops (I use "2" for chops, "1" for runs) - 1,1,1,1,2,4,8,16,32                     
2   W                  
2   W                  
112   L   L   W            
2   W                  
112   L   L   W            
112   L   L   W            
12   L   W               
2   W                  
2   W                  
2   W                  
12   L   W               
112   L   L   W            
12   L   W               
2   W                  
2   W                  
1112   L   L   L   W         
2   W                  
011   L   L   L   W         
2   W                  
2   W                  
1112   L   L   L   W         
112   L   L   W            
12   L   W               
2   W                  
2   W                  
12   L   W               
11110112   L   L   L   L   L   L   W
112   L   L   W            
112   L   L   W            
12   L   W               
12   L   W               
2   W                  
1112   L   L   L   W         
12   L   W               
2   W                  
112   L   L   W            
12   L   W               
2   W                  
112   L   L   W            
12   L   W               
11112   L   L   L   L   W      
2   W                  
2   W                  
11112   L   L   L   L   W      
2   W                  
2   W                  
112   L   L   W            
11012   L   L   L   L   W      
2   W                  
2   W                  
2   W                  
111112   L   L   L   L   L   W   
2   W                  
2   W                  
01   L   W               
112   L   L   W            
2   W                  
2   W                  
2   W                  
2   W                  
2   W                  
2   W                  
1112   L   L   L   W         
2   W                  
2   W                  
01112   L   L   L   L   W      
2   W                  
2   W                  
2   W                  
12   L   W               
1   L                  
2   W                  
2   W                  
112   L   L   W            
2   W                  

[Mister Eko]

Her switching procedure is the most important thing in this method.

[Mako]

Her switching procedure is the most important thing in this method.

Agree, and it's where we need to focus.  We'll need hints or guidance as well, I doubt even as a group that we'll be able to look at the raw output and determine favorable switch points without some direction.

Baccarat players understand this, much easier though to look at their elaborate roadmaps if you're searching for a switch strategy.  Much harder with Roulette, I would advise playing with red/black EC over high/low just because visually it may be easier to spot successful switch points in RX or R-Sim due to the colors standing out.

[miniroll171]

I’m wondering if the switch point is determined by the actual numbers spun rather than the amount of chops and runs.

I have a few ideas and will look into it when I get more time