RNG vs REAL Wheel (opinion)

[VLS]

...regarding RNG...

[see_jerek] 10:34 pm: Victor
[VLSroulette] 10:34 pm: tell me
[see_jerek] 10:34 pm: there is much talk about this RNG
[see_jerek] 10:34 pm: what do you think?
[VLSroulette] 10:34 pm: nah
[VLSroulette] 10:34 pm: RNG is not roulette
[VLSroulette] 10:35 pm: how can it be? No roulette disc, no ball, no dealer, no table
[VLSroulette] 10:35 pm: how come that is passed as the roulette game?
[see_jerek] 10:35 pm: a software
[VLSroulette] 10:35 pm: At the real wheel you have some things to measure: ball bounce, disc speed, hit diamond
[VLSroulette] 10:36 pm: dealer throw, etc.etc.
[see_jerek] 10:36 pm: have you become........
[see_jerek] 10:36 pm: a dark sider?
[VLSroulette] 10:36 pm: but I could tell you many reasons why real wheels can't be 100% equal to a Random Number Generator, starting with the generating process itself!
[VLSroulette] 10:36 pm: No mate, but I know there are different degrees and types of randomness
[VLSroulette] 10:37 pm: pseudo-random
[VLSroulette] 10:37 pm: true random
[VLSroulette] 10:37 pm: and of course, may I say "chaotic random" = roulette.



Well, I just wanted to comment this as I firmly believe roulette is a chaotic system, and I know others are of the same thought.

On the other hand, there really are TRUE RNG's that are 100% certified to be totally random, and those I consider very different "beasts" and not in the same league as the actual game of roulette, which depends on a physical roulette device, and depends on the continuous stream of physical factors that leads to results, spin to spin (I.e. where the dealer picks the ball and launches it).

In RNG you end up playing against atmospheric noise, the decay of radioactive materials or any other absolutely non-roulette scenario they may see fit to use for generating those numbers.

So, Is RNG = Roulette? In my humble opinion: NO.

Best regards,
Victor

[Phishalot]

Thanks Victor

I have always thought the RNG simulated the math of the game, but always worry that they are big slot machines and somewhere in the program it counts the wins and losses.  You are right the chaotic effect of the physical parts of the game could never be programed.

[Pacer]

IMO the biggest difference between a Real Wheel (land-based) and an RNG (electronic, digital simulations, including some "Live" wheels on the internet) is the casino can pre-set their profit (like in a slot machine) for the day.   

[trebor]

Pacer are you saying that apparently "live" wheels on the internet are in fact not? Which ones are they? I use live wheels from -for instance- Paddy Power and Betfred and they seem real to me.
I'd appreciate some details as I don't want to end up playing on fake live wheels.

Thanks,

Trebor

[Pacer]

From my experience, there are tell-tale signs that you maybe playing an RNG with "Footage of a real wheel".   On the Microgaming live-wheel feed (I don't know if Paddy-power or Betfred), but there was a television on that showed the exact same images over and over.   At Dublinbet, oftimes a large bet online is interrupted by a "bad-connection"--the bet may have been refunded, but if that bet won, you wouldn't have gotten the winnings.

[iggiv]

I think true RNG may work just like a real roulette. 'True' i mean not rigged. The proof is
Betvoyager. Not much difference

[albalaha]

RNG roulette is not like real live roulette. They generate any number amongst the 37 numbers of roulette without any order, but the ball and wheel of a real roulette moves in a direction and with a speed. The ball has to pass certain numbers before reaching winning number. But it is also random and no one in the world can predict it accurately. If one can, he can bankrupt any casino within three spins. Betting is same, reward is same. True random is a very dangerous concept in itself and unbeatable. If you want to earn something from it every session, it is just not possible. But in my opinion, RNG can easily be handled to get income than a live one. RNG is a revolution in itself and it has completely changed betting on roulette. It is a boon and not a curse. Stay away, if you do not like it. RNG need not be rigged to empty you, randomness itself is sufficient. Random means without any order and unpredictible

[iggiv]

try betvoyager and playtech, the same tactics which work on playtech will usually work on betvoayger even with better success. All patterns happening in real roulette happen just the same in betvoyager RNG. I can't see any difference.

[iggiv]

try betvoyager and playtech, the same tactics which work on playtech will usually work on betvoayger even with better success. All patterns happening in real roulette happen just the same in betvoyager RNG. I can't see any difference.

i mean playtech LIVE of course, playtech RNG is rigged

[albalaha]

In my opinion and as per my experience, Playtech RNG is not rigged but difficult one. I won 120 times(30X4) wagering on william hill casino using playtech software on one of my friend's account. Those who curse RNG to be rigged do not know how to handle it. William hill is I think largest online casino having more than 10,000 employees and not supposed to use rigged software. Again I say randomness itself is brutal.

[iggiv]

i dont know how u won buddy. can u share?

when u say "difficult one", random can not be less or more difficult, it is just random. when u admit that playtech RNG is more difficult than LIVE, u admit it is rigged somehow.
i find (as many other players) that what works on LIVE does not work on playtech RNG.
All the time. So draw your conclusion.

and again would be interesting to know how u defeat playtech RNG

[albalaha]

Dear iggiv,
                   I am talking about playtech software in general and william hill casino one of the users of this software in particular. I got free money from william hill which is not offering free money to all nowadays. It had 30X wagering on slots and on roulette 120 times and the bonus given was withdrawable. Once I tried with my money and lost and again I tried with my friends account. I played with lower stakes at european roulette as well as on live one(very few times on live). whenever I earned through roulette, I started playing my selected slots having highest return, I remember it was "Mister money". This way I could clear my bonus wagering conditions. Playtech roulette may seem rigged to you, but it is not. It had low wagering option 10c both on rng as well as on live. It has very fast play option. It has free spin option and many other option which can not be found anywhere else. If you seriously want to know which casino has rigged software(RNG) go to casinomeister.com. they have a very exhaustive and unbiased list of rouge and good casinos with reasons. you may email them also if you want to enquire about any particular casino or software providers.
                            Please do not blame any casino or software provider without knowing the reality. RNG is neither easy nor hard but it is not made for straight players. lots of strategies are required to beat it.

[iggiv]

I don't know what you mean by "rigged", I mean it behaves totally different than live wheel or
betvoyager RNG (which IS UNRIGGED by the way. it is just like a live wheel).
Playtech RNG is not random, there was one guy in vlsroulette forum which used to work in Playtech, and he admitted that it is not random. They have complicated technologies to make itl look almost like random but it won't be.  U can call it whatever you want , the fact is it is NOT RANDOM. the result depends on your playing. And of course it does not help U to win. It helps you to lose.

all those tactics you can use with success on short run live wheels, you can not use them on playtech RNG for more than small quantity of spins.

and what you describe about playtech roulette stakes, options -- all this I know of course. It does not have anything to do with randomness. Fast play helps you play faster and lose faster as well. I don't feel better about it. Betvoyager does not have fast play option, but its RNG spins are REALLY RANDOM, and u DO HAVE A CHANCE there, not like in Playtech.

so whatever you call playtech RNG, rigged or not rigged, the fact is that they are not random.
when you say that it is "not for straight player" you do admit it is NOT RANDOM, which I call "rigged". U may call it whatever you like, but it is not random. Random can be beat on short run by "straigt player" as you called it.

I would appreciate if you tell about tactics you can beat playtech RNG with, but as I assume you don't want to discuss them, I understand it.

[albalaha]

Dear iggiv,
                    I provide you an excerpt of my ebook
"The roulette that you see while you play roulette online is just an animation of ball revolving around a roulette wheel and finally landing at one number to make it look real and interesting. Actually an RNG generates a number amongst roulette numbers (0-36) and an animation shows as if a ball is actually being rolled into a roulette wheel as a real one does.
       What is an RNG?
A random number generator (often abbreviated as RNG) is a computational software designed to generate a sequence of numbers that lack any pattern, i.e. appear random.
There are two kinds of RNGs that online casinos use:
1.   Pseudo Random Number Generator: It generates numbers by an algorithm and gradually becomes easier to guess the pattern in which it generates next numbers. This PRNG can be exploited by many automatic betting softwares in long run. PRNGs are
Being replaced from most online casinos.

2.   True Random Number Generator: Purely random numbers, completely unrelated to previously generated numbers. Most difficult to predict and now being used by most online casinos. Biggest challenge to any system/software."


                                     So dear Iggiv, it is any type of random but it is not as per your bets.The bare fact is an RNG generates a number everytime when you click spin and not any color/even/odd/high/low etc and if you bet as per that parameters and lose with RNG, it is your fault. I am not saying I never lose but i have won and withdrawn from skyvegas continuously and you can do the same if you keep this in mind. There is no pattern which you or any system writer trying to fiund, just one number everytime, that's it.

[iggiv]

Dear iggiv,
                    I provide you an excerpt of my ebook
"The roulette that you see while you play roulette online is just an animation of ball revolving around a roulette wheel and finally landing at one number to make it look real and interesting. Actually an RNG generates a number amongst roulette numbers (0-36) and an animation shows as if a ball is actually being rolled into a roulette wheel as a real one does.
       What is an RNG?
A random number generator (often abbreviated as RNG) is a computational software designed to generate a sequence of numbers that lack any pattern, i.e. appear random.
There are two kinds of RNGs that online casinos use:
1.   Pseudo Random Number Generator: It generates numbers by an algorithm and gradually becomes easier to guess the pattern in which it generates next numbers. This PRNG can be exploited by many automatic betting softwares in long run. PRNGs are
Being replaced from most online casinos.

2.   True Random Number Generator: Purely random numbers, completely unrelated to previously generated numbers. Most difficult to predict and now being used by most online casinos. Biggest challenge to any system/software."


                                     So dear Iggiv, it is any type of random but it is not as per your bets.The bare fact is an RNG generates a number everytime when you click spin and not any color/even/odd/high/low etc and if you bet as per that parameters and lose with RNG, it is your fault. I am not saying I never lose but I have won and withdrawn from skyvegas continuously and you can do the same if you keep this in mind. There is no pattern which you or any system writer trying to find, just one number everytime, that's it.

my friend, i still dare to disagree with that about the Playtech RNG. whatever we call it.
i am convinced it is a complicated program, designed to reflect your betting style.

True RNG is probably Betvoyager. But not playtech