What is THE BEST system? With real money!

[Steve]

HE started it.

[Steve]

Where is your proof that prediction can't work? I know that you are wrong. Now prove that prediction can't work.

Do you really want the answer? Because I'll happily provide it.

[luckyfella]

Roulette outcomes are independent and unbiased, therefore roulette spins are unpredictable.

We know it's impossible for roulette spins to be unbiased unless the manufacturers can produce perfect balanced wheels. Whether this bias can be exploited is another thing.

This brings us to whether roulette outcomes are independent.

Can this be proven ?

It's impossible to prove that there is no dependent stream because there are an infinite number of possible streams, and you can't test them all, but that doesn't prove that there are any. All the logic and evidence suggest that there are none.

Anyone is entitled to believe what they want of course, even when there is no logic or evidence in favour of it.

In the absence of proof we assume with best available logic that roulette outcomes are independent and therefore random and unpredictable.

This leads to the demand for proof from those who made this claim, the onus is on the one who made the claim.

The person who possess this proof refuse to provide the proof. He is then name-called as mistake, ignorant, uneducated, deluded, scammer.

This deadlock loop repeats itself on all forums.

If you read Joe's post correctly the only person possible to provide proof is the person who made the claim.

[Joe]

This brings us to whether roulette outcomes are independent.

Can this be proven ?

You can't prove it in the way that you can prove some theorem in Geometry, but it's self-evident when you understand that roulette is a 'with replacement' setup (referring to my analogy with a deck of cards in an earlier post). The same number of pockets remain on the wheel between spins, so that's enough to 'prove' independence. Of course there might be some situations when independence doesn't hold, such as if the wheel has magnets and the casino is trying to cheat you, but that has nothing to do with the game itself.

Sometimes you hear it said that 'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence', meaning that if we haven't found something we think may exist, it doesn't mean that it really doesn't, it just means we don't know one way or the other. This often used by people to hang on to their beliefs even when there is no evidence for them. But actually, absence of evidence really is evidence of absence.

If you keep looking for something and continue to fail to find it, isn't this evidence that it doesn't exist? The more you look and fail to find, the stronger the evidence that it doesn't exist. You can even prove it mathematically using conditional probability - see here.

[Bebediktus3]

Roulette outcomes are independent and unbiased, therefore roulette spins are unpredictable.
This brings us to whether roulette outcomes are independent.

Can this be proven ?

All can be proved, only not need to mix two words - unpredictable and independent.

Independent means, that nex spin does not have a relationship with previous spins they - all can be different.

Unpredictable - means, that we nothing can, no matter what we measure, what we collect.

So claim, that spins are independent is right, but that they are unpredictable - not right.

And one more what is very important is that forums are not that place where can be some provings, simply because who can that prove - that for him not necessary...
For example, when I need for somebody to explain how is done predictions of results - use a very simple method. I take several spins video and show that is some algorithm, some rule, how we need to predict, that result which we get will give win on all selected spins...
So one rule for many spins.

[luckyfella]

If you keep looking for something and continue to fail to find it, isn't this evidence that it doesn't exist? The more you look and fail to find, the stronger the evidence that it doesn't exist. You can even prove it mathematically using conditional probability - see here.

Likewise, if I look for something and I found it, isn't it evidence that it does exist ?

What's more important are,

IF you believe it doesn't exist, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, and

Don't contradict your own belief to still continue to search for something which you believe that it don't exist.

Lastly, as a believer of roulette outcomes as independent and unbiased, therefore random and unpredictable, do make peace with yourself that in this world there are people who differ in their beliefs with or without basis, something you are never 100% certain.

[Joe]

lucky, as in many of your posts, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If you want to believe that spins are dependent then go ahead. As for me, I'm quite happy to 'believe' that they aren't, because I don't think it's necessary that they are in order to make a profit. 

[luckyfella]

lucky, as in many of your posts, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If you want to believe that spins are dependent then go ahead. As for me, I'm quite happy to 'believe' that they aren't, because I don't think it's necessary that they are in order to make a profit. 

The points I want to make are,

It's perfectly ok and normal logic to believe that roulette outcomes are independent.
(This is the point of reference whenever I write in response to other people's post.)

It's also important that you understand that no magical money management will change a losing bet to somehow win.

This reality applies to almost all people.

For those of you who believe, without any basis or evidence, that roulette outcomes are dependent, you must know that this dependent outcome that you believe in is based on heresay.

(You, is referenced to everyone.)

[luckyfella]

I don't think it's necessary that they are in order to make a profit. 

Someday, in another thread lets discuss how this is done.

[Bebediktus3]

I think that you simply  :

mix two words - unpredictable and independent.

Of course, spins are independent, but that not go into any confrontation with that they can be predictable. Ball fall not where and when it wants. ball fall when forces which push him to fall win against forces which let him move forward. And these forces we can describe by some mathematical formulas and solve task.
If sky jumper jumps from the platform from that how he flies in several few meters good master can quite exact say a distance of jump. Many basketball players throw ball and immediately know it will hit to basket or no...

So no matter how that is pitty but, many things are predictable, for some  small circle of persons. And that is in many realms...roulette is only small part of them...

[gizmotron2]

Do you really want the answer? Because I'll happily provide it.

Let's see if you can actually do that without going off in the weeds or basing your case on platitudes.

Answer these prediction questions then please:

1.) Do win streaks happen?

I predict that they almost always do because I'm searching for just one of them in 6 different unique groups of Even Chance selection options. With Baccarat you only have one group to pick from. So I tend to find a good enough win streak in every 100 spins. In Baccarat I would need 600 hands to compare this with.

2.) I predict that I will target a win streak if it occurs. Can I do that?

[luckyfella]

Let's see if you can actually do that without going off in the weeds or basing your case on platitudes.

I really like to see Steve provide the proof(of infinite roulette permutations). Let everyone see the proof he post below.

[gizmotron2]

It is widely held that all Roulette spins are independent. I agree.

So If each spin is independent then are win streaks independent?

Hopefully enough of you really play in order to see what happens at a table when someone has a win streak. It just happens. Nobody could predict in advance when one would start, how long it would last, or which player it would happen to. But everyone there could see it. They could watch it until it ends.

To me, wins streaks are independent. So I like to wait for them to happen to me. The skill to do that is shared here as Reading Randomness. I'm interested in anyone that can't see win streaks when they occur. I'd love to hear their story.

[gizmotron2]

I really like to see Steve provide the proof(of infinite roulette permutations). Let everyone see the proof he post below.

I'd like him to triangulate and project to the point that the point is forgotten.

[Joe]

I don't think it's necessary that they are in order to make a profit. 

Someday, in another thread lets discuss how this is done.

BEBE is correct : independent spins doesn't mean unpredictable.