Testing systems

[Steeefan2014]

I have an issue that I really want to get it out for a debate. I really see so many "roulette players" that are testing different systems for, I don't know, 10k spins, 100k spins, millions of spins. Ok, it's good that all the systems that come up are being tested, but - and here comes my issue - where do you test these? On RX? On random.org? What's that have to do with a real roulette?

IMO RX or random.org are nothing else but some number generators when it comes to testing systems. I mean..  the only difference between these softwares and you writting 10000 numbers on paper is that the softwares are faster.

Don't missunderstand me. RX is awesome for coding, tracking, showing you what to bet and when. Nobody can argue with that. But for testing? Let's get real here...

I really think that a true test of a system has to be done with live dealer or MAYBE, just MAYBE on an airball. Nothing more! You'll say that it will take forever to test a system like that. You're right! But I'ld rather test a system for a week or more to come up with a true valid oppinion rather than test it on some I don't know how many thousands of numbers a software can generate in 10-20mins.

I know that I started a subject that might explode, but... this is just my oppinion. If I'm wrong... feel free to argue!

[Proofreaders2000]

According to the last FLAT_INO, a
"successful lifetime bet" will be in profit after 400 bets.

(It works for me)

[Joe]

here comes my issue - where do you test these? On RX? On random.org? What's that have to do with a real roulette?

You can load real spins into RX or any simulator, but it makes no difference unless you're using a physics based method of play. Providing the RNG is fair, you won't be able to tell the difference between real spins or an RNG. The roulette wheel is after all just a random number generator.

[Taotie]

Listen to Joe, he's right.

For the purposes of testing systems or mechanical methods, all types of fair random number generators are equal.

Let's get real here, if you need to argue this point then you are a novice.

Don't  feel too bad though, as this argument has been going around in circles for years.

As for the amount of trials adequate for a comprehensive system test, 50k is relatively dependable.

[Steeefan2014]

I really don't need to argue! There are just my thoughts. As I said, maybe I am wrong... but this is how I see it!

If there is a logical explanation, I'm open to that, ofc.

[Taotie]

ok, sorry my bad.

If you need to debate this point then you are a novice.

Don't  feel too bad though, as this debate has been going around in circles for years.

50k spins should do it.... wherever they came from.

[Steve]

The roulette wheel is after all just a random number generator.

Only if your approach is completely ineffective.

all types of fair random number generators are equal.

I'll be publishing an article about beating rng tomorrow. But it won't help flat earthers who refuse to open eyes.

Ikeepmateethinajarbesidemabed

[Clf7]

Only if your approach is completely ineffective.

I'll publishing an article about beating rng tomorrow. But it won't help flat earthers who refuse to open eyes.

Ikeepmateethinajarbesidemabed

For rng roulette you need insider infos to beat it, its like try to beat a slot machine.You need to know the RNG "algorithm"

[Steve]

Yes, you do. The article covers that. Ie ways to detect and exploit anomalies.

[Serendipity]

Ok Steve, we'll be waiting for your article

[Joe]

Quote from: Joe on Today at 04:07 AM

    The roulette wheel is after all just a random number generator.


Only if your approach is completely ineffective.

Steve, ok let me qualify that. The 'essence' of a roulette wheel is to be an RNG, although of course particular wheels may be biased. Even if your approach is effective on a biased wheel, it will be ineffective on a fair wheel if the only thing you have to go on are the numbers themselves and no other data. I'll be interested to see your post on beating RNGs though.

[Joe]

If there is a logical explanation, I'm open to that, ofc.

I'd like to hear your logical explanation of why you think testing is invalid unless done with a live dealer? I'm talking about typical systems here and not anything based on ball movement and speed, etc.

[Joe]

For rng roulette you need insider infos to beat it, its like try to beat a slot machine.You need to know the RNG "algorithm"

Many, if not most modern RNGs are hardware based like random.org. They use atmospheric noise as the source of randomness, so there's no algorithm to crack. The old excel RNG was reputed to be pretty bad in that you could predict the output to some extent, but even casinos which don't use a hardware RNG would never use an algorithm which could be exploited for possible weaknesses.

A roulette RNG isn't like a slot machine algorithm which can be programmed to adjust the payouts; it works just like a real wheel except that the numbers are simulated.

[Serendipity]

What about airball? Can we consider it a good way to test? I mean... Is there in any way different from a normal wheel? Is it a good chance to be rigged? Should we avoid it?

[Steeefan2014]

I'd like to hear your logical explanation of why you think testing is invalid unless done with a live dealer? I'm talking about typical systems here and not anything based on ball movement and speed, etc.

When we are talking about live dealer, you can not exclude the ball movement, the speed the dealer is implementing on the ball/wheel. It's impossible to do that. Airball... is the next closest thing, being a physical roulette.

RNG... is a software based number generator. When we're talking about RNG, all rules are off. There you will be able to see things that at this moment you might consider impossible based on any theory/system you have in mind (probabilities, strategies, pattern breakers, whatever else is out there)