Example how rigged is Playtech RNG real mode

[esoito]

Basically, it all boils down to this:

1  RNG is not roulette -- never was, never is and never will be. Why? Because roulette is an actual wheel; RNG is software. (Apples do not equal pears)

2  If you have any doubts -- real or imagined -- as to whether RNG is rigged or not then Don't. Play. RNG.

We could all argue until the cows come home. Unless somebody can produce a signed and witnessed statement from, say,  a Playtech programmer, stating it's rigged, then all we can ever do is guess...

Let's not forget Victor actually did find some PROOF about one particular RNG software and posted it on the forum.

So if one package is rigged (as in Victor's post) then it sure as heck throws a big question mark over the rest of them!

That's suspicion enough for me to keep my money right away from RNG.   

[chrisbis]

Question for Forum members.


Q. If I set two apples down upon a table............

Do I not get a pair? 

[Bayes]

Let's not forget Victor actually did find some PROOF about one particular RNG software and posted it on the forum.

esoito, in that particular thread you mentioned that you were cheated by BV; care to elaborate?

I agree it's not worth trying to convince anyone who's determined to believe otherwise, it just irritates me when people make accusations without any back-up or evidence.

BV do have a system in place which is supposed to guarantee that outcomes are never manipulated or changed during play, but unfortunately this isn't a cast-iron proof because the checksums are generated from their own site. It's a shame because they've gone to considerable trouble to explain how it all works. If there was a way for players to independently verify the checksums then it would convince more people... maybe. 

[superman]

RNG is not roulette -- never was, never is and never will be. Why? Because roulette is an actual wheel; RNG is software

I think we have agreed on this a while back, its random and random is the enemy. The roulette table is only used as a place to place bets.

Let's not forget Victor actually did find some PROOF about one particular RNG software and posted it on the forum.

At a time when he was creating his own system, which now turns out that his will win for some and lose for others, same as RNG if you ask me, random is random, wether it's from a wheel or a computer AND Vic has thrown the towel in now, but he has made money from his "tool" hasn't he.

So in essence, roulette cheats, period

[esoito]

I think we have agreed on this a while back, its random and random is the enemy. The roulette table is only used as a place to place bets.

At a time when he was creating his own system, which now turns out that his will win for some and lose for others, same as RNG if you ask me, random is random, wether it's from a wheel or a computer AND Vic has thrown the towel in now, but he has made money from his "tool" hasn't he.

So in essence, roulette cheats, period

WARNING @ SUPERMAN

What you have written is a non sequitur. The Tool is a separate issue entirely from the point I was making.

Don't use my entirely unrelated comment as a stick with which to beat Victor.

If you have an issue  with Victor then take it up with him.

I will NOT countenance a vicious, personal and public attack such as this innuendo.

Do it again and there will be a more serious consequence than a written warning.

Furthermore, an apology would not be out of place.

[superman]

Oh my, I was merely stating that he was promoting something that has apparently failed THE SAME as RNG fails, its called a comparison.

You brought his name to the thread yourself, had you not, I would probably not have pointed out the inevitable failure.

Maybe I shouldn't have pointed out that he has taken money from some of you, that seems to be the sore point here.

Sorry Vic, but it is true.

Do it again and there will be a more serious consequence than a written warning

esoito, do what you have to do mate, its a forum for debate, dont bring things or people in to a thread if you dont want them mentioned in it by others.

[LeoLeo11]

And where is the evidence that they interfere with your game? it's a purely subjective interpretation.
You can get any number of "testimonials" either for or against cheating, but without hard figures and stats it means nothing. Confirmation bias: if you don't trust RNGs you'll ignore the positive testimonials and believe the negative ones, and that's not an objective assessment.

Bayes, I respect your opinion, there is much sense on all your posts here(and not only here)!Maybe you are a programmer?!

No absolute evidence, that casinos interfere with player's game!...but Why I claim about all these differences...!
True it's just my observations and they are too subjective(but not entirely)!...and the most of them are done with a bot(RBotPro) and sometimes all day(even 24hours).

What I mean..., put a system on the bot for say 10 hours on Dublinbet(live), first!...I have some results(+/- no meaning),...next 10 hours the same system runs on BV, OK I save the results, and the next time(10hours) put it on a Playtech casino(Golden Palace etc.)...save results!

OK it's still too subjective!...but I do that and the next time..., and the next time, several times in order.

Now results: Every time my results are nearly equal  comparing Live with BV or worse on BV, and nearly every time results are much better than Playtech! ââ,¬Â¦must be add here that I put various speed set on the bot for Playtech casino, intentionally( not max. speed)

...to be honest sometimes I have the same bad results on Dublinbet like Playtech, probably because sometime the wheal behaves like RNG, but pretty rare( I think, we all had such cases)

Maybe still subjective but for me that means, that it's more dangerous to play on Playtech and on RNG, at all...!

Superman, ââ,¬Å"randomness is randomnessââ,¬Â but I would say here, that there is difference between the randomness of the real wheal and the randomness of a programme (RNG), it's maybe because first randomness is produced by dealer's hand and the wheel but the second by the programme?!

Programme is programme, it's exact parameters sets on it, and the wheal is wheal! I could see some difference...!(just my opinion and it's not more important than others)  

[VLS]

@superman & esoito

Hi, I'm OK with it being debated.

My plans are to become a full-time web developer this year.

Yes, I'm honoring every session booked.

If you ask me, I don't feel like gambling seriously anymore and I'm in the process of draining and shutting down my online casinos accounts (joyland, etc.);

Of course, that's me! Anybody can make as he/she wishes! Roulette is a most exciting game, but at this moment in time I see every hour I spend playing roulette as an hour I'm not spending coding something which I can derive a stable income from.

Currently, given my delicate familiar situation, one of the most irresponsible things for me to do would be to spend my day with roulette rather than looking for getting stable income.

I get my priorities right.. Right now, I only want a regular salary and my family back.

I know every conscious person can relate.

Victor

[superman]

Hey Victor

Hi, I'm OK with it being debated

You were not being debated, referenced to maybe, but not debated buddy.

My plans are to become a full-time web developer this year

LOL thats what I do for a business, it's not easy, there's a lot of people doing it. Try to concentrate on the backend, my main money comes from MySql/PHP you can charge more for your time and as you know, if you can code, web functionality is fairly easy to do, good luck buddy.

esoito, all's cool on the western front, stand down soldier

[VLS]

Hey Victor

You were not being debated, referenced to maybe, but not debated buddy.

Thank you.

LoL that's what I do for a business, it's not easy, there's a lot of people doing it. Try to concentrate on the backend, my main money comes from MySql/PHP you can charge more for your time and as you know, if you can code, web functionality is fairly easy to do, good luck buddy.

Thanks for your advice.

[frost]

i think the only way to solve this debate is to design a system that works on a independent RNG.

if you win continiously but lose on a casino RNG then there you have your answer. if a system can not hold up to softwear that has no reason to cheat or rigg the outcome then it is clear the system will fail on any RNG.

[superman]

if a system can not hold up to softwear that has no reason to cheat or rigg the outcome then it is clear the system will fail on any RNG

Good idea frost, but as I have stated a few times, maybe not in this thread, I have tested numerous methods agains Roulette Xtreme, using IT's internal RNG AND spins found on forums etc, would RX cheat? I doubt it, I have also tested against PHPs' random function, that wouldn't cheat either, lastly, the software I use to create bots, I have used that random() function too, all systems fail long term (which means at some point the losses were too great, but after that period they win for a while again).

That doesn't mean we should give up though, random has a flow you get good times AND bad times all the time, we need to try to understand WHY the bad times are bad and its not as simple as, "I was betting red and 20 blacks came out, that's why my system failed" you need to look at the numbers that were spun, the colours, hi lo, odd even dozens and columns on the table are fluff to make it look interesting/easy.

Everyone has had results like

LWWWLLWWWWWWWLWWWWWLLWWWLLLWWLLWLLLWWLLLWLLLLLLWLLWWLLLLLLWWLWWLWLWLWWWLWWLLWLWWWWWLWWWWWLLW

See the bad patch in the middle?

Thats the results, now, if you changed all Ls' to R and Ws' to B (red & black)

RBBBRRBBBBBBBRBBBBRRBBBRRRBBRRBRRRBBRRRBRRRRRRBRRBBRRRRRRBBRBBRBRBRBBBRBBRRBRBBBBBRBBBBBRRB

Its the same as the results of play, long sequences of wins and losses, chops of wins and losses series of wins and losses, which to me shows that methods/spins/results all have the same profiles, they all relate no matter which RNG you test against you will always get series of X length so many times, runs of 20+ so many times, thats random, the enemy.

As far as cheating RNG's big companies like playtech have no need to cheat, they may have a different kind or harder random but cheat, I doubt it. Some developing countries might not pay you if you win, that's cheating.

[frost]

yea i am of the same thought superman. just thought we should put an end to this debate.

[Lulloz]

That's suspicion enough for me to keep my money right away from RNG.   

It's your choice and i'm sure is the best for you if you think RNG is a scam, but.. if you notice something of strange during the game, it can be used to made a lot of money

Until now in the first month of 2011, i have gained a big load of money at playtech RNG and i'm sure i'm no one on the roulette scene.

For now i think rigged can be good if you can find when and where

[LeoLeo11]

"Let's not forget Victor actually did find some PROOF about one particular RNG software and posted it on the forum."

As I know, this thread was based on something like a document how a particular casino order software and was refering with specific parameters and settings by the software company?!    

Two points for me:
1. Fair RNG-casinos with realy "random number generator"(like maybe BV) software but although probably there is some difference between the randomness of the real wheal and the randomness of a programme (RNG), and it's maybe because first randomness is produced by dealer's hand and the wheel but the second by the programme?!

2. Rigged "rng" casinos with special settings on the software and even they couldn't be blamed that cheat players because there are no real evidences, just settings!

This debate finaly finished for me!

Good luck on the tables!...Live and RNGs too

P.S. @Frost if you design a system that wins on fair RNG it must be "Holy Grail" system and I don't believe it exist so far!

I also have internal RNG to my bot, the results are same like RNG casinos in long term!

Probably playing roulette is too individual, like often it is with medicines!...if you finaly find your system it will work for you!