Alternative Matrix

[GLC]

Note this topic was originally started under the topic  "Matrix Vertical 30 Live Attack".  It was moved to here to keep from cluttering up that method.  You may have to refer to that topic as an intro to this one.

Here's a thought that may get us more bets in a shorter amount of time and shouldn't change our formula 1 bit.

I was playing Turbo Genius' system link:://turbogenius.webs.com/4spinsequencesystem.htm.  He puts forth the reality that it is as difficult, or the odds are the same for dozen sequence 1-2-3-2 to repeat exactly 1-2-3-2   1-2-3-2 as it is for 1-1-1-1   1-1-1-1 to happen.  Now, if he's correct, and I think he is, then we should be able to bet that any sequence we see will not hit in that exact sequence for five times before it doesn't hit at least once.

We play it just like we do now, except that we can pick all the first 2 number combinations and track them waiting for the opportunity to bet against 5 in a row.

1-1; 1-2; 1-3; 2-2; 2-3; 3-3; 2-1; 3-1; 3-2.  These are the nine 2 dozen combinations we can use to play with.  That gives us 3 times more betting opportunities than with only 1-1; 2-2; 3-3.

Whatever the 3rd dozen is after any of these sets, we just play a 4 step martingale that before this 3 dozen set reproduces itself 4 more times, it will miss once.  That's our win.

Three times the action.  Same odds.  Maybe a little confusing at first, but if this is a winning method, with practice the confusion will become clarity.  You know, practice makes perfect.

A final observation.  This should work with any of our vertical matrices.

What do you think?

George

[GLC]

Okay guys,  I just played a session on Betvoyager single zero wheel.

42 spins
23 bets
+13 units won
Had to bet 3-3 4 times
Lost 6 1-1 bets
Ended session with 2 lost bets not recovered

These are actual spins.  I may not list all 42 of them, just enough to let you guys see exactly how the system is played.

1-1-2
3-3-2     These are my first 6 spins
1            This is my first series formed 1-3-1.  The next time I have a 1-3, I will bet that it doesn't become 1-3-1.  In other words, I will bet 1 unit on the 2 and 3 dozens.  As it turns out the very next spin is a bet so I bet 1 unit on the 2 and 3 dozen.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2         Win. +1.  I must tell you that the way to keep track is to write down the trips as they form.  So, I would have written down 1-3-1.  This tells me that the next time I have a 1-3, I will bet that the 1 dozen does not hit.  If the 1 dozen hits, I place a mine sign (-) with that trip which tells me that the next time I get a 1-3 I will have to bet 3-3 that the 1st dozen doesn't hit.  In this case, I won my bet so I cross off 1-3-1 and write down 1-3-2.  This tells me that the next time I get a 1-3 I will bet that the 2nd dozen doesn't hit.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3      Now I can write down 2-2-3 which is another trip that I am going to bet won't form the next time I see 2-2. Now I check and see if I have any trips that start with 3-1 since that is the next 2 dozens trigger.  I do not, so there is no bet.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3
1             Now I write down 3-1-1 which is my trigger to bet against the 1st dozen the next time I get a 3-1.  I check to see if I have a trip starting with 3-2 and I don't so there's no bet.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3
1-2         Now I write down 3-2-2 as a trigger to bet against the 2nd dozen hitting the next time I have a 3-2 show.  I check my next 2 dozens trigger of 2-3 to see if I have a trip written down that starts with 2-3.  I don't, so I have no bet for the next spin.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3
1-2-3      This forms a new trip for me to bet against so I write down 2-3-3.  I check to see if I have written down a trip starting with 1-1 and I haven't, so I have no bet.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3
1-2-3
2             Now I write down the trip 1-1-2.  And check to see if I have a trip starting with 2-2.  I do.  It's 2-2-3 from the upper right hand corner.  That means that I have to bet against the 3rd dozen hitting.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3
1-2-3
2-1          Win.  +2 .  Now I cross off 2-2-3 and write down 2-2-1 as a new trip to bet against repeating.  I check to see if I have a trip starting with 3-3.  I don't, therefore no bet for next spin.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3
1-2-3
2-1-3       Now I write down 3-3-3 as a trip for me to bet against forming the next time I get a 3-3 trigger.  I check to see if I have a trip starting with 1-2 and I don't, so no bet.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3
1-2-3
2-1-3
2              Now I write down 1-2-2 as a new trip to bet against.  I check to see if I have a trip written down that starts with 2-1 and I don't so I don't have a bet.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3
1-2-3
2-1-3
2-1          Now I write down 2-1-1.  I check for 3-3 and see that I have a 3-3-3 so I bet on dozens 1 & 2 betting that the 3rd dozen won't hit.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3
1-2-3
2-1-3
2-1-1       Win  +3.  Now I cross off 3-3-3 and write down 3-3-1 as a new trip.  I check to see if I have a 2-2 and I do.  I have 2-2-1 so I bet against the 1 showing.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3
1-2-3
2-1-3
2-1-1
1             Lose  +1.  This is my first loss.  I write a - sign with my 2-2-1 showing that I lost the 1-1 bet and the next time I get a 2-2 trigger, I must bet 3-3 against the 1st dozen hitting.

I'm going to post this for right now.  It should be pretty clear what we're doing.  If I get time, I will continue later, or answer any questions you might have.

George

[GLC]

One thing that will become clear with my next post or with your tests is that after about 25 spins, we are betting almost every time.

Also, since we are winning as we go along, we may reach our win target and still have a few trips that we have lost once or maybe even twice on and we haven't recovered our lost bets.  That doesn't matter since we have won enough other bets to reach our win target.  I think this is a plus to this way of playing.

Since I have only started testing this idea, I don't know if there are any quicksand pits that will catch us, we'll just have to see.

Also, I don't know the best way to do any of this.  I'm just showing how I picture it as of now.  I won't have all the answers to your questions.  We can decide on exactly how we want to play this as a team.  Or we may discover that there's a reason to totally abandon this idea.

It's all new.

George

[GLC]

Continuing from above:

2-1-3
2-1-1
1               This was a loss.  +1.  (I don't need the first lines of the matrix since all we ever look at are the last 2 lines.)  Now I look at my list of trips to see if I have one starting with 1-1 and I do, it's 1-1-2 so I bet on dozens 1 & 3.

2-1-3
2-1-1
1-2            Another loss.  -1.   I put a minus - sign next to my 1-1-2 trigger showing me that I have already bet 1-1 and lost on this trip.  Now I check to see if I have 3-1-x trip and I do have a 3-1-1 so I bet the 2nd and 3rd dozens.

2-1-3
2-1-1
1-2-1        Another loss.  -3.  I put a minus - sign next to my 3-1-1 trip so I know to bet 3-3 next time it comes up.  Now I check my trips to see if I have one beginning with 2-1 and I don't, so I don't have a bet.

2-1-3
2-1-1
1-2-1
3              Now I have a trip starting with 2-1 so I write down 2-1-3 so the next time I have 2-1 I will know to bet against the 3rd dozen.  I check to see if I have a 1-2 trip and I do, it's 1-2-2 so I bet dozens 1 & 3 against a 2 showing.

2-1-3        
2-1-1
1-2-1
3-1           A win.  -2.  Now I cross off 1-2-2 and write down 1-2-1 for a new trigger.  I look to see if I have a trigger of 1-1-x and see that I have a 1-1-2 and I also see that I have a minus - sign with it showing that I have lost the 1-1 bet so I must bet 3-3 on the 1st and 3rd dozens.

2-1-3
2-1-1
1-2-1
3-1-1        Another win.  +1.  Now I cross off 1-1-2 and write down 1-1-1 as a new trigger.  I look to see if I have a trigger that starts with 1-3-x and see that I have a 1-3-2 so I bet on the 1st and 3rd dozens blocking a 1-3-2 repeat.

2-1-3
2-1-1
1-2-1
3-1-1
1              Another win.  +2.  Now I cross off the 1-3-2 and write 1-3-1 so I will know to bet to block 1-3-1 next time I get a 1-3 trigger.

I won't go any further with this because it's late and I'm getting tired.  If I had lost my 3-3 bet 2 bets above, I would have placed another - sign with my 1-3-2 trigger indicating that I have lost 2 attempts to block 1-3-2 repeating and when the 1-3 trigger comes up again, I must bet 9-9 on the 1st and 3rd dozens trying to block a 1-3-2 repeat.

Also note that we are starting to be able to bet almost every spin.

I will post all of the numbers in my matrix so you can play it out and see if you come up with the +13 unit win that I came up with.

1-1-2
3-3-2
1-2-3
1-2-3
2-1-3
2-1-1
1-2-1
3-1-1
1-3-2
3-3-1
1-1-1
2-2-1
3-2-2
2-3

This actually played very easily.  I don't doubt that it was a lucky sequence to win +13 units so quickly and easily.  I would have won even more with the grand martingale for 2:1 bets  1-4-13-40, but we won't get into that right now.

George

[GLC]

This is a post by Atlantis.  I moved it to this topic so it looks like I posted it.

It's a great idea George.

+1, +1, +1, -2, -2,+1, +1, +1, +1, -2, +1, +1, +1, -2, +1, -2, +1, +1, -2, +1, +1, +1, +1, +1

24 bets @ 1u-1u
18W - 6L
=+6u profit flatbetting only.

A.

[GLC]

George....This is a nice method except when 1 of the dozens goes to sleep for a while.
This is when your BR can take a beating.

[GLC]

Using your numbers George but with the 'ultra cautious' wait for a matching trigger rule (2 triples the same in succession; without any intervening same doubles that form triples that don't match)

+4 flatbetting 1-1
4 bets only - no losses. All 4 won on 1st bet!

First triple is
1
3
1

so write that down.
Now looking for a match first before betting against.

Next double is
1
3

and becomes
1
3
2

No match! -  so ERASE the 1-3-1 written down and substitute with 1-3-2.

Now looking for a match for the vertical 1-3-2.

Next double is:
2
2

and becomes

2
2
3

Write down on the list 2-2-3

etc...

No bet until 2 same triples have occurred  (with no intervening same doubles that failed to form a matching triple)

Example:
111
121
333  

Here the vertical 1-1-3 in column 1 is repeated in column 3 - so next time vertical double 1-1 occurs we bet against dozen 3 repeating...


A.

[GLC]

Hi GLC,

In other words, George, I am playing it EXACTLY as you said in all respects - only waiting for a 2 in a row matching triple before playing against the next triple forming identically.

If the first bet loses that means the sequence we flagged as having hit twice in succession has now hit a THIRD consecutive time... In this case I am doing exactly the same as you and betting against that same doz that formed the losing triple to not repeat (at same or higher stakes)
In other words next time the matching double occurs I will repeat the same bet I made the last time.

A.

EDIT: Just did another test flatbetting and won - but I now do think some kind of progression is needed; perhaps a more gentle progression can be used - maybe rise by 1u on a losing bet for each of the NINE types of double e.g.:
1-1,2-2,3-3,4-4,5-5...  
Resetting when level or ahead of course.

[atlantis]

Hi GLC,

Well it is a good idea.

Reservations to consider:
One observation is that unlike MATRIX30 9 separate bankrolls would be needed for each of the categories of doubles; not saying they would all need to be employed - but you never know... so that is an extra requirement to bear in mind.

Now in the MATRIX30 you have clarity with the dozens ie. a triple 1 or triple 2 or triple 3; they are easier to track and spot. Also with that method it is waiting for unambiguous and independent "standalone" doubles and triples  - which is not the case with just using the last 2 lines for the betting signal...
I know I had some winning sessions when I tried your idea out but I think that this fact will make a difference and lead to some unwelcome results...

EXAMPLE
======
111
121
132--TRIGGER (col1) ; WIN (col3) (normal matrix 30 rules)
133--Your idea counts the 1's in column 1 as A DOUBLE (1-1) when in reality it is the fourth leg of a QUAD. In other words it is not an independently formed DOUBLE...

I think would be better in such instance to only list TRUE vertical triples for tracking and then you are operating under same rules as MATRIX30 which is so far proving very positive indeed.

Hope you understand my concern there. If you can manage that I can see no reason why your idea to gain more units in less spins should not be just as successful - in which case it will be GREAT, but as said earlier there is the bankroll question.

Cheers,
Atlantis.

[GLC]

Atlantis,

Thanks for your observations.

I agree completely with what you're saying about making the 2 dozen trigger be unique in itself rather than being a continuation of a previous triple.  That will protect us from getting caught trying to defeat a long string of the same dozen.  And, we have seen some of those already in other posts.

The additional banks are a definite consideration if we continue to use the 2:1 martingale, but if we were to incorporate your idea of a more gradual progression, we could reduce the size of the banks considerably.

As I said, this is just a thought.  I knew there would be obstacles to consider and overcome if possible.  If not, maybe some other idea will come out of this.  We never know where one of these ideas will take us.

[GLC]

Furple,

Regarding you post about a dozen sleeping hurting us, can you please give us more info on what you mean.

You're probably right, I'm just having a hard time getting my mind around it at this time.

Thanks,

G

[GLC]

I'm glad you brought up the point on multiple banks.  It gives me pause before presenting my next idea which is to use your idea of waiting for 2 of the same triples in a row before beginning to bet against them continuing. 

The reason I was going to do this, which would cause more waiting between bets, is because I was going to introduce the Ultimate Matrix System.

The UMS will have us identifying our triples vertically, angled upper left to botton right and also upper right to bottom left.  This gives us 3 sets of 9 possible triggers.  I'm not even going to mention zig zags and V's.  All are just a valid as "vertical".

Cheers,

George

[GLC]

Another session.  This time on Ladbrokes European Roulette wheel.  Demo mode.

36 spins
21 bets
18 wins
2 losses
+15 final win

2-3-2
3-3-3
1-2-3     +1   2-3-1 is my first trip.  3-3-2 2nd trip.   2-3-3 is my first win since it prevented 2-3-1
                    from repeating.  Cross off 2-3-1 and replace with 2-3-3.
2-3-3     +2   3-1-2 is a new trip.  3-2-3 is a new trip.   3-3-3 is a win because it prevents 3-3-2
                    from repeating.  3-3-2 is replaced with 3-3-3.
1-2-1     +4   1-2-1 is a new trip.  2-3-2 wins, prevents 2-3-3 from repeating.  3-3-1 wins, prevents
                    3-3-3 from repeating.
1-1-3     +6   2-1-1 is a new trip.  3-2-1 wins, blocks 3-2-3.  3-1-3 wins, blocks 3-1-2.
2-2-2     +7   1-1-2 is a new trip.  2-1-2 wins, blocks 2-1-1.  1-3-2 is a new trip.
3-2-2     +10  1-2-3 wins, blocks 1-2-1.  1-2-2 wins, blocks 1-2-3.  3-2-2 wins, blocks 3-2-1.
1-3-3     +9   2-3-1 wins, blocks 2-3-2.  2-2-3 is a new trip.  2-2-3 loses,  2-2-3 repeats.
3-3-2     +9   3-1-3 loses, (-2).  2-3-3 wins, blocks 2-3-1 (+1).  2-3-2 wins, blocks 2-3-1 (+1).
3-2-1     +12  1-3-3 wins, (+1) blocks 1-3-2.  3-3-2 wins (+1) blocks 3-3-1.  3-2-1 wins (+1)
                     blocks 3-2-2.
3-3-3     +15  3-3-3 wins (+1) blocks 3-3-1.  3-2-3 wins (+1) blocks 3-2-1.  2-1-3 wins (+1) blocks
                     2-1-2.

Very easy win.  Was never in the hole.  Surely this isn't typical of what to expect day in and day out, but so far it definitely has promise.

George 

[GLC]

Here's one tested on BV nozero r.n.g

212
313
212--Trigger#1 (pos2)
331
312
211--Trigger cancelled (pos1)
333
211
331
232
323
332
112
223
332
211
112
231
322
131
321
312
213
331
131
313
213
312--Trigger#1 (pos2)
322
313--Trigger#2 (pos1) ; W1u (pos3)

Long wait for triggers - but no probs using autospin (fastspin)
Again a win on the first bet.
+1 in 90 spins.

A.

Atlantis,

I took the liberty of betting the Alternative Matrix bet method on the above matrix just to see how it would perform:

90 spins
75 bets
22 losses
53 wins
-14 largest drawdown
+49 units won

This tells me that this system is at least worth testing because that's a pretty strong performance.

I did use the 1-3-9-27 progression.  I had to bet 27-27 once, but it won.  If it had lost it would have been a different story.

I think the next test will be with a less aggressive progression.  Either 1-2-4-8-16-32 move 1 step to the right on a loss and move 1 step to  the left on a win.

Or, your progression suggestion 1-2-3-4-5-6 etc.  Move 1 step to the right on a loss and continue to bet at that level as long as you win until you reach a new high.

22 losses to 53 wins is a very, very good hit rate.  It indicates once again that this system should win with a flatbet.  Still too early by a mile to make statements like that.  Needs tons more testing.

George

[GLC]

Another thought I have is that we don't really need to have a separate bankroll for each set of doubles.  The hit rate so far has been good enough that with one of the more conservative progressions, I think we can play with 1 bankroll and 1 progression.

That may be too optimistic.  We'll see.