Bots and software vs. systems (the selling drama)

[Boo_Ray]

Ok so by now there is quite alot of bots on sale and many many systems...
But who is a scammer?

well from where I am looking - bots are still  programs that were programed by others to help you with your play or maybe they even play instead of you.. So bot is a software that was programed by someone who put research and also worked to program the bot.. So you pay for his software... which in my opinion is a fair deal..
What I consider a scam is...that if you were told that it is infailible holy grail and it turns out that it isnt...that is a scam... If it is told to be a tool that helps you make profit, you can't say that it is not true... But what I have seen, many (not all) are trying to convince you that their software is in fact epic, so therefore you should pay thousands... (most of them if not all, are scammers)

with systems it is a different story (I am talking about systems which are for sale)
In todays world every Joe can put up a website and open a word document and write some encouriging words and maybe even some of his knowledge and claims that it is the last system you will need because it is so awesome... If it is smart enough (or wants to be) it will even pursuit you with law that you distributed his system without rights... and it is a fact that most if not all systems sellers are scammers...because if someone has something valuable it will keep it to yourself or post it for free because in his world a fer dolars wouldn't make much sense except that he would have problems with payments.. And it would be ridicules to sell it for thousands... Also interesting fact is that most systems sellings made are agains the law, and by buying you are a part of it, so you cant do anything to get your money back.. It is like buying a fresh burned copy of windows vista by neighbour,  which it wont work, then cry to some legal person that he sold you illegal copy of vista which doesn't work..

Why did I started this thread?
Because It might be one thread less.... With: I have holy grail give me 10000$
Threads like that are not short of disturbing...

[ThomasGrant]

LOL...
Have you ever watched late night TV?

And those late night commercials?
Most if not all contain some sort of hype.

Now the claims that these products offer.
Are selling points.

They are there for one reason. And one reason only.

TO SELL YOU THE PRODUCT.

And the same is applied to any online tool or bot or whatever.

Now, as for the price you pay for it.

I would like to point out the one word in that sentence.

The one word that is overlooked time and time again.

The one word that people forget to mention.
In any correspondence.

And that word is "YOU"

YOU made the decision to purchase it.
YOU made the decision take note of the sales pitch.
YOU made the decision to hand over your money.

Ahh but it was a scam...
I wasted my money.
Look out everyone...
I stuffed up.
So I am warning others.

Now, Lets take a look at what Victor is doing.
Victor is creating a service that picks bets for you.
You, the member, put those numbers into a clicker and it places the bets down on the table.
What if you loose?
What if you loose all your money you put in?
Do you then blame Victor?
Or do you blame yourself.
Not many on this planet have the fortitude to forgive themselves.
Or to forgive others.
So they blame others for their misfortune.
That is why there are so many Lawyers in this world.
Not saying that is wrong.
Just saying that few take responsibility for their own actions.

So lets say you hear about a system.
That can play Roulette.
And never loose.

And it costs $$$$ bucket loads.
It is still your choice to purchase it.
Ohh but if I don't get it now.
It may be gone.

This sale will close in less than 24hrs.
Then the price will increase.

Ahh the tricks of the trade.

Selling ice to people that live in Igloos.

Just remember...

YOU are the ONE.
YOU are the ALL.
YOU make the decisions.
Your choices affect your outcomes.

WIN, LOOSE, or DRAW.

[Bayes]

Also interesting fact is that most systems sellings made are agains the law, and by buying you are a part of it, so you can't do anything to get your money back..

Not sure what you mean by this. It isn't against the law to sell a system, as long as you're not infringing copywrite. There's nothing to stop someone buying a system, changing some words around and re-selling what amounts to the exact same method, and the originator of the system wouldn't have any grounds for legal action. Not saying that's ok, but it's the way it is.

[Boo_Ray]

About bots I wasnt aiming at you TG and also not on Victor...
for software it is reasonable to pay some money...

[albalaha]

System sellers+Bot makers= Scammers?

                    Both a bot and a system try to help you win more. I have very extensively tested more than a dozen bots and more than 300 systems and virtually every possible way of playing roulette. There are certain bots, which has predefined formula of playing like labouchere, martinagale, reverse laboucher or any other system of your choice. You can configure them as per your convenience. These bots are not at all scams because they just save you from calculating your bets and also by placing them automatically.
                             But the bots which try to forecast the next winner is definitely a scam. By applying no scientific calculation one can ascertain future outcomes. This is a universal truth.
Aboveall, none can guarantee you any winning or even breaking even.

                                    Now, talking about systems, most of them are irrational and illogical and provides fanciful ways to earn from roulette. Most of them do not work and the buyer feel cheated. Everybody gambles to gain something and not to lose. After losing a fair amount of money and after trying 100% of his efforts, when a gambler get tired and frustrated, he searches google for systems and get into the trap of fraudsters having very attractive websites, false testimonials etc, many of them are having their own forums too. Systems based on law of averages, gambler's fallacy and martingale are proven failures, yet these systems are in plenty. Very few authors dare to provide a sensible progression, stop-loss point and loss recovery techniques with their systems. They will also show some favorable sessions to prove their systems winning potential but never show the flipsides. They create daydreamers and potential bankrupts.
                 To avoid all these, there has to be some place where all popular systems are evaluated honestly and without any affiliation. Our forum can do this noble work and I requested many times to  provide a separate section for it. We are here to learn and earn and anything which can help in this has to be here. A Commercial System Review and Discussion section.

[esoito]

A Commercial System Review and Discussion section.

At face value that might seem to be a good idea.

The trouble is, the devil will be in the details of ensuring the marketers don't somehow get a free kick.

I can imagine them joining us under the usual anonymous user names that we all use. Then, a bit later on they write a glowing review of what could well be their own product!

And how would we ever know it's a straight, unbiased, honest and objective review, written by someone without a vested interest?

The short answer is -- we would not.

[frost]

I think Thomas first post is brilliant.

In my opinion none of them are scams. They say you will win X amount. if your extremely fortunate you will. if not you wont. But I’m yet to see a system or bot that didn’t win anything

That would be a scam.

If I had a bike and told you it flies and it is yours for $47, something should trigger your thought of common sense/scepticism/disbelief

If it sounds to good to be true, it often is...

[albalaha]

I have some suggestions for that section:
1. Only members having posts count of 500 and above will be the topic starters
2. No links of any website be allowed in that section
3. Evaluator will himself/herself play the system/bot on at least 5 sessions of say smart live casino posted in our Actuals/Spins section or anything like that and provide his results openly
4. It would be an evaluation/assessment section only and no body can advertise or sell his system/bot or quote any price etc. here.
5. A very sensible and alert moderator to look into the scam, if any, and take appropriate action on the culprits.
              It is always very painful thing to initiate a reform but if such concept comes into reality, we can be the finest place for roulette discussions.

[chrisbis]

I think maybe this sort of discussion and Analysis take place in the Private chat room.

Then there's instant censorship at hand.

And quite possibly with a Moderator on hand/in the chat room at the same time.

[esoito]

I have some suggestions for that section:
1. Only members having posts count of 500 and above will be the topic starters
2. No links of any website be allowed in that section
3. Evaluator will himself/herself play the system/bot on at least 5 sessions of say smart live casino posted in our Actuals/Spins section or anything like that and provide his results openly
4. It would be an evaluation/assessment section only and no body can advertise or sell his system/bot or quote any price etc. here.
5. A very sensible and alert moderator to look into the scam, if any, and take appropriate action on the culprits.
              It is always very painful thing to initiate a reform but if such concept comes into reality, we can be the finest place for roulette discussions.

Good points there, Albalaha.

Why not PM Victor with your suggestions?

He might take you up on it -- worth asking.

[F_LAT_INO]

I remember not long ago...on old VLS...we had a secret section there with about
18-24 numbers....and after that the whole forum suddenly become quite,the members of the
secret section rarely or ever post anything on the forum and old VLS slowely started to sink down....thats probably why Vic sold it.......LOL.....and he probably wouldn't do the same mistake
again.............thats my view of the matter

Quote Albalaha;.........I requested many times to provide a separate section..........
...........but prior to that.......
We are here to learn and earn and anything which can help in this has to be here......AGREE...................................................BUT.....but on the forum without any sections,as thatway other members would be handycapped in many ways.

[esoito]

@ F LAT INO

Albalaha is not proposing a secret section.

As I understand his idea, it would be open and transparent. 

Have another look at his post and see if I'm correct. 

[albalaha]

Exactly Esoito. It has to be a public section. This info will help not the members of our forum only but public at large.