**VERTICAL 8*

[Jeromin]

Ok you can do it  but what would be the point here?  Some people reported seeing 10 vertical repeats already so i bet you can get 12 in a row. You can wait then for 6 repeats and use 6 step progression to be safe or wait for 3 repeats and use colossal 9 step progression.....
For me and I'm a very patient guy  completely waste of time.

Regards

Firstly, I don't know if there is a point because I don't know if there is a consistent limit. But let's say that someone patiently programs RX to test, no just this bet but 50 or 100 diferent bets: all the matrix bets, streaks, chops, terrible two's, on every layout bet: EC, street, line, dozen, etc. And let's assume that one does reach consistent limits after miltiple million sample trials, both real spin and random. With a large number of bets being monitored at the same time, one or more might reach the expected limit inside a session, close enough that a long progression within table limits guarantees ( or nearly guarantees ) a win.

your example has two problems: firstly, we don' know how far this particular system goes in very large, multiple tests ( 12 in a row? 15? 18? ); secondly, it is only one system. It might take 50 hours of continuous play, or maybe a hundred to reach that point. Maybe more. Hence the need for a large number of systems being tracked at the same time.

Still, I don't like the idea of going against random. Imagine going against Red after 16 consecutive reds, with some crazy martigale, to end up making one unit, rather than follow red and make a fortune letting it ride. This is just thinkig aloud.

Jeromin

[Robeenhuut]

Firstly, I don't know if there is a point because I don't know if there is a consistent limit. But let's say that someone patiently programs RX to test, no just this bet but 50 or 100 diferent bets: all the matrix bets, streaks, chops, terrible two's, on every layout bet: EC, street, line, dozen, etc. And let's assume that one does reach consistent limits after miltiple million sample trials, both real spin and random. With a large number of bets being monitored at the same time, one or more might reach the expected limit inside a session, close enough that a long progression within table limits guarantees ( or nearly guarantees ) a win.

your example has two problems: firstly, we don' know how far this particular system goes in very large, multiple tests ( 12 in a row? 15? 18? ); secondly, it is only one system. It might take 50 hours of continuous play, or maybe a hundred to reach that point. Maybe more. Hence the need for a large number of systems being tracked at the same time.

Still, I don't like the idea of going against random. Imagine going against Red after 16 consecutive reds, with some crazy martigale, to end up making one unit, rather than follow red and make a fortune letting it ride. This is just thinkig aloud.

Jeromin

Hello Jeronim

I think we are both veering of the subject here which is the feasibility of this system.
For me a final conclusion based on the test results of other members and my observation of other similar systems is that this system in its current form is not viable and is not worth tweaking.

Regards

[Johnlegend]

Ok you can do it  but what would be the point here?  Some people reported seeing 10 vertical repeats already so i bet you can get 12 in a row. You can wait then for 6 repeats and use 6 step progression to be safe or wait for 3 repeats and use colossal 9 step progression.....
For me and I'm a very patient guy  completely waste of time.

Regards

Once again you  all miss the POINT. Knowing something CAN LOSE, and running into THAT LOSS are two different things. The likes of Superman will be on forums like this until the end of time warning us if it loses AVOID, AVOID. That is not the point. What we have to do is gauge the best way to exploit the strong points of a method while negating the weak point as best as possible.

It may well be true that random has no limit in realistic PLAYABLE TERMS. But that doesn't mean it cannot be exploited with the right application. So nobody saw an 11 pointer, so the call goes out we should therefore wait longer to be assured of NEVER LOSING. Wrong, then someone will report an 11 or longer pointer. This isnt how we beat random...

If I were shrewd with limited funds. The number no-one has latched onto yet is THREE. There are so many strikes on THREE that a PLAYABLE/WORKABLE method should be staring someone in the face on here. I can see it, but I don't want to have to always be the one to spell it out.

It would be nice to see someone else see the OBVIOUS for a change. Aside from a few like AMK  and ATLANTIS. Who have really contributed and added to my methods. I don't see enough creative input from others. Instead of waiting around for a miracle. You should get your thinking caps on and contribute more to things.

I am now 420/0 for VERTICAL 8. Do I know its a winner hit and run?? Hell yes, but then I have the knowledge and strength not to be deterred by negative feedback. What I said to all was paper test this and any method THOROUGHLY. Because I will repeat, knowing something can lose, and running into those losses are two different things.

If I played CODE 4 unlimted it wouldnt work. TWO BY TWO. It works like a dream. APPLICATION, APPLICATION, APPLICATION. When it comes to you that its not just the method but how you USE IT.

You will be on your way, HIT AND RUN and CLEVER MONEY MANAGEMENT. Cannot, and must not be underestimated. The idea is to GET AHEAD. Once you have turned your progression even half a dozen times. You should never taste negative figures....

[Robeenhuut]

Once again you  all miss the POINT. Knowing something CAN LOSE, and running into THAT LOSS are two different things. The likes of Superman will be on forums like this until the end of time warning us if it loses AVOID, AVOID. That is not the point. What we have to so is gauge the best way to exploit the strong points of a method while negating the weak point as best as possible.

It may well be true that random has no limit in realistic PLAYABLE TERMS. But that doesn't mean its cannot be exploited with the right application. So nobody saw an 11 pointer, so the call goes out we should therefore wait longer to be assured of NEVER LOSING. Wrong, then someone will report an 11 or longer pointer. This isnt how we beat random...

If I were shrewd with limited funds. The number no-one has latched onto yet is THREE. There are so many strikes on THREE that a PLAYABLE/WORKABLE method should be staring someone in the face on here. I can see it, but I don't want to have to always be the one to spell it out.

It would be nice to see someone else see the OBVIOUS for a change. Aside from a few like AMK  and ATLANTIS. Who have really contributed and added to my methods. I don't see enough creative input from others. Instead of waiting around for a miracle. You should get your thinking caps on and contribute more to things.
I am now 420/0 for VERTICAL 8. Do I know its a winner hit and run?? Hell yes, but then I have the knowledge and strength not to be deterred by negative feedback. What I said to all was paper test this and any method THOROUGHLY. Because I will repeat, knowing something can lose, and running into those losses are two different things.
If I played CODE 4 unlimted it wouldnt work. TWO BY TWO. It works like a dream. APPLICATION, APPLICATION, APPLICATION. When it comes to you that its not just the method but how you USE IT.
You will be on your way, HIT AND RUN and CLEVER MONEY MANAGEMENT. Cannot, and must not be underestimated. The idea is to GET AHEAD. Once you have turned your progression even half a dozen times. You should never taste negative figures....

Hello John

Speaking of Code 4 i lost FIRST EVER game played as i reported in one of my previous posts. How is it for hit n run No time for a  hit....
I admit i recovered a lot but i dont see that you can have winning streaks in hundreds playing and you need them to be in the profit. But maybe im extremely unlucky.
For me extending the progression by waiting few extra steps is nothing special - you can apply it to virtually any method. As for testing a limit of random as far as i remember the longest streak of one dozen hitting consecutively is 13 so i would say here 13 would be a good number  But that would be extremely rare so you would probably be safe with 11. But to either wait so long for the trigger or still risk so many units to win just one for me does not make sense. But maybe its something that would appeal to others.  I would rather wait for 6 consecutive dozens to hit and use 5 step progression. Simpler and easier to track and the same risk.
As for merits of HIT and RUN  no point in arguing - no way to come up with reliable data to support any of the point of view.  Personally for me its pointless discussion.
You have to calculate  win to loss  ratio and if you are really comfortable with that  just do it.
One example... i play something similar to what you are really familiar with -  Phase3. 
Im ahead playing it  for quite long time.  But yesterday i saw something that really changed my perception of a limit of random. 3 sets of DS hit consecutively 17 times.
Previous longest recorded streak by me was 14 which seemed already quite long
The system had provision for 12 consecutive hits and was winning in the long run.
Do you understand what im saying?   I dont question your numbers but maybe tomorrow you are due for a rude awakening.
Im trying to be far from personal here, just stated my point so maybe others will benefit from a different point of view.

Regards

[superman]

I admit i recovered a lot but i don't see that you can have winning streaks in hundreds playing and you need them to be in the profit. But maybe I'm extremely unlucky

You and everyone else mate, except of course ... the chap at 420/0, it's been questioned before, I think its getting long in the tooth all these excellent results only ONE person seems to be having. C.E.H maybe?

[Johnlegend]

You and everyone else mate, except of course ... the chap at 420/0, it's been questioned before, I think its getting long in the tooth all these excellent results only ONE person seems to be having. C.E.H maybe?

A typical response from Superman. First of all is there anyone playing the method EXACTLY as I do Superman? I doubt it, I don't consider 440/1 excellent Superman. I expect 600 plus. But its winning.

If you had TRULY, 10 members on this forum, playing EXACTLY as I do, and not one of them had results to mirror those of mine. Youd be right to think I'm making this all up. But that's just it, the human mind is the weak link in the chain of this game. Always has been and always will be. Everyone wants a miracle handed to them on a plate. But virtually nobody wants to put the time and effort into running a winning method.

As soon as they hear of a loss or two. They jump ship onto the next method to hit the forum. Theyll be doing this for the rest of their days fuelling your pessimistic forecasts in the process. When I thought like they do, I lost like they do. For several years. Until you get your mind right. You cannot beat this game. Its that simple. 99.9% of players don't and never will have the right mindset to do it. That means even on a forum like this dedicated to the game. Not even 1 in a 100 can ever be successful.

[Johnlegend]

Hello John

Speaking of Code 4 i lost FIRST EVER game played as i reported in one of my previous posts. How is it for hit n run No time for a  hit....
I admit i recovered a lot but i don't see that you can have winning streaks in hundreds playing and you need them to be in the profit. But maybe I'm extremely unlucky.
For me extending the progression by waiting few extra steps is nothing special - you can apply it to virtually any method. As for testing a limit of random as far as i remember the longest streak of one dozen hitting consecutively is 13 so i would say here 13 would be a good number  But that would be extremely rare so you would probably be safe with 11. But to either wait so long for the trigger or still risk so many units to win just one for me does not make sense. But maybe its something that would appeal to others.  I would rather wait for 6 consecutive dozens to hit and use 5 step progression. Simpler and easier to track and the same risk.
As for merits of HIT and RUN  no point in arguing - no way to come up with reliable data to support any of the point of view.  Personally for me its pointless discussion.
You have to calculate  win to loss  ratio and if you are really comfortable with that  just do it.
One example... I play something similar to what you are really familiar with -  Phase3. 
I'm ahead playing it  for quite long time.  But yesterday i saw something that really changed my perception of a limit of random. 3 sets of DS hit consecutively 17 times.
Previous longest recorded streak by me was 14 which seemed already quite long
The system had provision for 12 consecutive hits and was winning in the long run.
Do you understand what I'm saying?   I don't question your numbers but maybe tomorrow you are due for a rude awakening.
I'm trying to be far from personal here, just stated my point so maybe others will benefit from a different point of view.

Regards

Robeenhutt, I have been fully aware for several years that random can go into serious downturn at the drop of a hat. That is EXACTLY why I play HIT AND RUN. Here is why I came up with the VERTICAL 8 Method. The original Matrix method MATRIX VERTICAL 5. Concentrated on waiting for a vertical column of three of the same dozen after a QUAD TRIGGER
.
We then proceeded to bet that there wouldnt be 5 QUADS in a row. This method was good. The problem it carried was the patience testing WAIT for a QUAD. It could take hundreds of spins just to get THE TRIGGER. In the wait for that trigger, there would often be several TRIPS formed. And therein lies a gift to this forum. And it looks like I have to be the one to bring this gift to the forum once again.

VERTICAL 8 isnt for everyone (seems no-one) I appreciate this. It is an advanced method. You need several 1000 units in your BR to run it with confidence. The majority of members  on this forum don't really have a minumum BR to start with. Which is a problem. Everyone playing this game should bring at least 200 units to the table to start with.

I am waiting to see if anyone can read between the lines here. Because the laymans method is waiting for you all. The NUMBER IS 3. Now I already know its a great one. But I am not going to spell it out just yet. While all are busy looking for the holy grail. Which doesn't exist. At least not in an acceptable format to the masses. You have THE GIFT right under your noses. Roulette isnt about finding a method that never tanks. Its about finding a way of playing the game that ultimately leads to POSITIVE NUMBERS.

When you realize this, you have your starting point. Random will always produce freak runs that upset any set mechancal method. Everyone SHOULD KNOW THIS. And its surprising how many don't. But again, those freak runs are the exception. Its how we capitalize on the standard flow of results that matters. There are no surprises for me Robeenhut. I have seen it all with this game. I had a friend who won several thousand times. PLAYING AGAINST THE LAYOUT. He swore he had the grail, no way could it lose. Then he lost three times in a row in one session. And we are talking 242 units a loss. That deflated him bigtime.

But remember this, HE WAS THERE TO LOSE THREE TIMES IN A ROW. This is the crucial factor all the doom merchants like Superman can't digest. He played the fatal long drawn out sessions, that invite random to take you apart everytime it hits that nasty downturn morphing phase. I play as I play for a simple reason. It garners more profit than straight play. There is absolutely no question about this. It also strengthens your confidence to raise stakes post losses. Because unlike the fatal continuos play. Back to back losses are EXTREMELY UNLIKELY.

This is the most crucial factor to a method like PATTERN BREAKERS success. Yes it can lose and it loses a plenty. But back to back losses are so infrequent profit isnt a maybe its a  CERTAINTY. But again this will be lost on virtually all because they heard it loses. Everyone wants a method that makes them rich overnight never loses. And requires a tiny BANKROLL to run. The word DREAMER. Comes to mind whenever I think of this equation. Its simply not going to happen. BUT, making steady profits over time is no pipe dream. IF, (isnt that a helluva two letter word) You go about it in the right way.


And very few can go about it in the right way. Which of course perpetuates the myth that the game of roulette is a mugs pursuit. It is if you are a MUG.

[Johnlegend]

RESULTS UPDATE FOR VERTICAL 8 FOR 10/10/2011

TOTAL GAMES PLAYED 440

TOTAL GAMES WON 440

TOTAL GAMES LOST ZERO

STRIKERATE 100%

BALANCE 880 UNITS PLUS

STEP 1 WINS 285

STEP 2 WINS 88

STEP 3 WINS 62

STEP 4 WINS 5

STEP 5 CURRENTLY UNCHALLENGED

The method is performing very well in the 4 by 4 format, most games dont even go beyond the first step of the progression. I end my session directly after I have played my 4 games. So I have yet to even see a vertical 8 loss, the last step of the progression is currently not even being tested. My next update will be at 600 games played.

[topcat888]

John,

What do you do if there are two triggers within the matirx..? for example 2 sets of VERTICAL COLUMN's of 3, like this:

2322
3312
0332

What then, which one do you choose..? (obviously not both triggers as you would then be betting all three dozens)

Cheers

[Johnlegend]

John,

What do you do if there are two triggers within the matirx..? for example 2 sets of VERTICAL COLUMN's of 3, like this:

2322
3312
0332

What then, which one do you choose..? (obviously not both triggers as you would then be betting all three dozens)

Cheers

Good question Topcat. It seldom happens to me with the 4 by 4 format. Another reason to keep your sessions this short. On the occasions I have had two qualifying dozens in the same row. (Never had 3 to date) Remember you have to play ONE BEFORE THE OTHER. Obviously if the first one makes up my FOURTH GAME in a session. I will not play the next one.

If on the other hand they are both required as part, or to complete my session. I will play them both. I tell you Top cat. There are so many TRIPS in this method. That you are seldom taken to the second step of the progression twice in a row. So keep this in mind. Short SESSIONS RULE. They really do. They will more than not rinse the method of all that can and will go wrong longterm.
One day this will sink into a few minds. Until then people will have to continue to learn the hard way, just as I did from 1995---2003.

[topcat888]

Great info, thanks John...

[nightwolf4]

What exactly means the 4 by 4 format?

[Johnlegend]

What exactly means the 4 by 4 format?

Hello Nightwolf, it means you play no more than 4 games per session. Its this discipline of short play. That will LONGTERM, generate a greater overall strikerate than fatal continuos play. You can go for much longer periods without loss. Even on methods with  a fast turnover like DIVIDE AND CONQUER. It will give you superior results.

[moles40]

1, We record spins for the DOZENS in a 4 wide matrix until we get a VERTICAL COLUMN of 3 of the same dozen. I.E

2322
3312
0232--TRIGGER DOZEN 2 COLUMN 4

2, We now bet against this trip becoming an 8 timer. using the classic 1,3,9,27,81 x 2 progression. Total risk 242 units



So your betting the same dozen won't hit every 4 spins five times   after it has hit 3 in a row every 4 spins?


why not  bet after one four wide maxtrix ie 1322 then bet that one line of your choice doesn't repeat 5  times in a row?

[Johnlegend]

1, We record spins for the DOZENS in a 4 wide matrix until we get a VERTICAL COLUMN of 3 of the same dozen. I.E

2322
3312
0232--TRIGGER DOZEN 2 COLUMN 4

2, We now bet against this trip becoming an 8 timer. using the classic 1,3,9,27,81 x 2 progression. Total risk 242 units



So your betting the same dozen won't hit every 4 spins five times   after it has hit 3 in a row every 4 spins?


why not  bet after one four wide maxtrix ie 1322 then bet that one line of your choice doesn't repeat 5  times in a row?

You could Moles40. The question is do you have the staying power to find out if this would work over the longterm??.

That's what is lacking overall amongst players, STAYING POWER. Until you can stick with something against REAL LIVE SPINS. For several thousand games you just won't know. Idle speculation or hanging on the results of a man-made number cruncher or RNG. Will never give you the true story. That's why the vast majority of players will be going round in circles their whole lives. And losing plenty in the process.