Three at once

[GLC]

So as not to muddy the waters of the "Perpetual Roulette" topic under this section, I am going to post this system separately rather than tweak that one.


We are going to bet the Street, Corner and Line all at the same time.
We will bet on the last number spun until we lose 6 spins in a row.
As long as we win within the 6 spins, we will stay on the same 3 locations.  We will not change our trigger number until we lose 6 spins in a row.
Once we lose 6 spins in a row, we will use the number that spun on the 6th spin for our new street, corner and line locations.
We will use a progression. 
We will always bet the same amount on each of the 3 locations.  Similar to a double dozen bet only we will be betting 3 each time.
The progression is based on winning all 3 bets on 1 spin.  Anytime we do that, we can reset to the beginning of the progression.
If we win the Street and the corner bets we can drop back 2/3 of the way.
If we win the street and the line bets we can drop back 2/3 of the way.
If we win the corner and the line bets we can drop back 1/2 of the way.
If we win only the street don't drop back at all.


The Progression:
If lose      Bet              If win
-3          1-1-1               +24
-6          1-1-1               +21
-9          1-1-1               +18
-12        1-1-1               +15
-15        1-1-1               +12
-18        1-1-1               +9
-24        2-2-2               +30
-30        2-2-2               +24
-36        2-2-2               +18
-42        2-2-2               +12
-48        2-2-2               +6
-54        2-2-2                 0
-63        3-3-3               +18
-72        3-3-3               +9
-81        3-3-3                 0
-93        4-4-4               +15
-105      4-4-4               +3
-120      5-5-5               +15
-135      5-5-5                 0
-153      6-6-6               +9
-174      7-7-7               +15
-193      8-8-8               +18
-220      9-9-9               +23
-250      10-10-10         +20
-283      11-11-11         +14
-319      12-12-12         +5
-361      14-14-14         +17
-409      16-16-16         +23
-463      18-18-18         +23
-523      20-20-20         +17


You can continue the progression if you want to use a larger buy-in or you can stop earlier for a smaller buy-in.


I just did my first test and I won +318 units in 175 spins.  I know, it's shocking.  That's 1.8 units won per spin.  I have to believe that I was being very lucky.

I never had to bet more than the second 5-5-5.  That means that I was never more than -135 units down from my high point.

I had 26 hits in the 175 spins.


This is very easy to play so why not give it a spin around the block?


Happy New Year to all,


GLC

[GLC]

If we win the Street and the corner bets we can drop back 2/3 of the way.

This statement from my original post is an impossibility.
The way we are betting we must always hit the Line bet.
If we hit the street and corner bets we will also hit the line bet.
By betting on all 3 locations at the same time we have the following possibilities.
1.  We hit the line bet only for +6 less our 3 units bet = +3
2.  We hit the line bet and the corner bet for +15 less our 3 units bet = +12
3.  We hit the line bet and the street bet for +18 less our 3 units bet = +15
4.  We hit the line, corner and street bets for +27 less our 3 units bet = +24
5.  We don't hit anything and lose our 3 unit bet.

Regarding my 1st test summarized above where I hit 26 times in 175 spins.  That sounds like a lot of hits but since our base bet is the Line or double street and we should hit that bet once in every 6 spins, that means that we should have hit at least a line bet 29.3 times in 175 spins.  This indicates that I probably hit the street and corner bets more often than I should have.  Unfortunately, I didn't keep track of which bets I hit.

I know that in order for this to work, we have to hit a Line bet quite regularly.  We all know that a line can sleep for a very long time.  Way more than our 30 step progression.  The fact that we switch lines every time we don't hit within 6 spins allows us to jump off a line that may be going to sleep for a very long time.

In order for us to lose our progression of 30 steps we would have to switch lines and lose 6 bets in a row for 5 consecutive times.  This won't happen very often.  The other possibility is that we hit our line bets and miss on our street and corner bets enough that eventually we find ourselves at the end of our progression.  Or some combination of the above.

It's parallel to a martingale vs D'Alembert.  If we have a 10 step martingale, we lose by missing our bet 10 times in a row.  With D'Alembert we lose by the accumulation of losses that overwhelm our wins which gradually drive us into the hole deeper and deeper until we finally hit our stop loss.

One thing my first test demonstrated is that with a good session, we can generate a pretty good return per spin.  Further testing will reveal how much we can lose per spin during bad runs.

We know that no matter how promising a system looks, there are always counter-balancing unpromising situations to contend with.

One other thought for our consideration.  I think about Winkle's recommending using a 5,000 or even 10,000 unit bank to play his "win as much as you want" system.  I wonder how often we would lose on a system like this with a 5,000 or 10,000 unit bank. 

Maybe a better way to approach the game is rather than increasing the size of your unit as you win more and more units, it would be safer to increase the length of your progression until you can afford to bet all the way up to the house limit.

Just something to think about.

GLC

[GLC]

2nd test:


89 spins
+84
Largest bet was 8-8-8
No draw down to speak of because I won on the 3rd spin of the session.
Had 14 wins which is exactly the number of lines we'd expect to hit in 89 spins.


8-8-8 is a little scary because there's only 8 chances for a hit left and we've already used up 22 chances.


GLC

[catalyst]

8-8-8 is a little scary because there's only 8 chances for a hit left and we've already used up 22 chances.


GLC

Dear George

I have bad shaky experience before. I will be shaking with tears and fears. we need to tweak the progression to expand and humanize it to stay in the game. what about after 15 steps, we reduce our exposure to stay in the game and take a little loss and adjust the progression accordingly as strike rates are quite satisfactory.

thanks
catalyst

N.B. I sent a PM to you.

[GLC]

I just spoke with Dennisbelle and he said he ran a second test on this method and it busted the progression.  I just ran another test myself and won on the last bet of the progression.

The system wins a lot fast when it's winning, but it is volatile.

Maybe too volatile for my likings.

As Catalyst says, we might be able to moderate the progression to give us more breathing room.

My initial hopes were high but they are plummeting rapidly.

If any decide to play this, be ready for a real roller coaster ride.  You could win big or lose big. 

Doesn't sound like the kind of system most of us are looking for.

That's why it was in the Notepad section.  Just seeing how it would hold up.

Back to "Perpetual Roulette".

GLC

[GLC]

My hopes are back up.

Here's a new and safer progression for this system.
It's the hollandish type progression or I posted it under "Money Management" as "Clean up before move up".

With this system we will bet 1-1-1 and every time we lose, we will write down a 3 to be recovered. 
Whenever we have a win, we cross off the number of 3's we just won.  When we have 16 uncrossed off 3's, we move to betting 2-2-2  Why 16? 

Because if we hit all 3 bets while betting 2 units on each, we will win 54 units less the 6 we're betting.  So we net 48 units and 16 X 3 = 48.

When we lose betting 2-2-2 we write down a 6.  Whenever we win betting 2-2-2 we cross off the number of 3's we just won.
 
It will be 2  3's if we hit a Line bet.  12-6=6/3=2
It will be 8  3's if we hit a corner and line bet.  18+12=30-6=24/3=8
It will be 10  3's if we hit a street and line bet. 24+12=36-6=30/3=10
It will be 16  3's if we hit all 3 bets.  24+18+12=54-6=48/3=16

Here's an important rule.  If we lose 6 times before crossing off all the 3's, we continue to bet 2-2-2 until we have either crossed of all the 6's or have at least 12  6's written down.  Once we have 12  6's to recover, we can then move to betting 3-3-3.  We do this to keep our bets from escalating too rapidly because with a little luck we may cross off all the 6's while still betting 2-2-2.

If we have all the 3's crossed off and we have 12  6's written down, we start betting 3-3-3 or 9 to clear all the 6's.  Every time we lose at 3-3-3 we write down a 9.  We must have at least 11  9's written down before we can move to 4-4-4.

As soon as all the 6's have been crossed off and we have 11  9's written down, we start betting 4-4-4 or 12 to clear all the 9's.  Every time we lose at 4-4-4 we write down a 12.

As soon as all the 9's have been croseed off, we start betting 5-5-5 or 15 to clear all the 12's. Every time we lose at 5-5-5 we write down a 15.
Etc... until you reach a new high bank or your stop-loss.  I suggest a 500 unit stop-loss as a realistic amount to give you enough playing opportunity to recover in a relatively bad run.

Our progression:
1-1-1 = 3 = 16 ea
2-2-2 = 6 = 12 ea
3-3-3 = 9 = 11 ea
4-4-4 = 12 = 10 ea
5-5-5 = 15 = 10 ea
7-7-7 = 21 = 10 ea
9-9-9 = 27 = 10 ea
12-12-12 = 36 = 10 ea
etc...

If at any time your bets start getting too large, you can break them down into smaller bets.
For example:  Let's say you are betting 5-5-5 and you have your 10  15's written down.  Instead of going to 7-7-7, you can break your 150 units (15X10) down to 13  6's = 78 units and 8  9's = 72.  72+78 = 150. 

It will look like this:
6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 and your next bet will be 3-3-3 which you can lose 3 more times before having to go to 4-4-4. (Note: I used 13  6's instead of 12 to keep the numbers closer to correct)

Doing this can keep your bets smaller and give you more breathing room to recover.

Warning!  Breaking into smaller bets keeps your bets down but also may prevent you from recovering in a few lucky hits at the higher bet amount.  On the other hand, if you had stayed at the higher bet amount and continued a losing stretch, you would sink deeper into the hole.  There's always a trade-off.  Risk vs safety.

LoL,

GLC

[GLC]

Test #1 using the new progression.


+102
60 spins
Won the 1st bet for 24 and never went into the hole
largest bet was 1-1-1


Changed numbers after 6 losses in a row.
Only had to change 4 times.


I'm back on the roller coaster.

Back to "three at once".

Join me,


GLC

[catalyst]

Back to "three at once".

Join me,


GLC

dear George
Back to life. you have humanized the progression. it looks more humane now.
thanks
catalyst

[GLC]

DB,


I have thought that what you're suggesting is an easier way to play.  I don't think it will make a bit of difference regarding how the system performs.  All we have to do is make sure we clear the lower categories before we move to a higher bet level.



I can't tell for sure, but one thing you may be doing is moving up to the next level before you've crossed off all the numbers below the level you're on.  You don't move up to the next level until you have crossed off all the numbers in the level below you.


Example:  Let's say we are betting 3-3-3 which means we are crossing off the 6's below that.  If we find ourselves with  3 ea. 6's left to cross off and we haven't won for 11 bets, it means we will have 11 ea. 9's, but we don't move to betting 4-4-4 yet.  We continue to bet 3-3-3 until we have crossed off all the 6's even if we have 20 ea 9's.  As soon as we cross off the last 6 then we can move to 4-4-4 and start crossing off the 9's.  This way, if we have a really long stretch of losses, say 30 or so, we will be staying at the same bet size rather escalating our bet size every 10 or 11 losses.


The caveat to that is we don't move to 4-4-4 even if we've crossed off all the 6's if we have less than 11 ea. 9's.  I'm hoping this rule keeps us from escalating our bet sizes too quickly.


This rule may not be necessary.  We'll have to see if the progression keeps us in safe territory as it is.  We can also drop down to a lower bet size if we clear off say the 6's and we only have 3 ea. 9's written down, we could divide the 3ea 9's into 9 each 3's and drop to the 2-2-2 bet level.  This too will help keep our bets lower.


It will be inevitable to get to the larger bets eventually.  But as you know,  we're just trying to stay ahead of the losses by enough to make playing it worthwhile.


Like I've said before.  On any martingale type progression I try to only count 5-10% of my winnings as true winnings and the other 90-95% will be collected back by the casino when our progression busts.


I know 5-10% may be optimistic, but if something like this isn't possible, then what are we doing here?


This is definitely not a finished system.  There are many possible tweaks that might make it much safer and profitable.  Example:  Just picking the last number to spin may not be as effective as using some other trigger like picking the line that has hit the most in the last 12 spins.  This may help find a line or street that is hot.


Any suggestions or ideas are more than welcome.  You're as good at tweaking these systems as anyone else so suggest away.


GLC

[dennisbelle]

George,
    Thanks for the clarification.  I did my first test incorrectly so disregard that result.  I ran my first test using the correct rules and ended at +75 units.  It took 130 spins.  It still requires some time to cross off the appropriate number of bets when I have a high unit win but should get easier as I become more familiar with the method. 

[GLC]

George,
    Thanks for the clarification.  I did my first test incorrectly so disregard that result.  I ran my first test using the correct rules and ended at +75 units.  It took 130 spins.  It still requires some time to cross off the appropriate number of bets when I have a high unit win but should get easier as I become more familiar with the method.

Dennisbelle, so as to guard against confusion, I have deleted your post where your test results were accrued incorrectly.


Although, since it did so well, your method may be the better way.  Can you explain how you played?


GLC

[dennisbelle]

Sure.  I followed the progression you laid out but instead of waiting to clear the previous bets before going up to the next bet I just went to the next bet when I accrued the required number of losses.
For instance if I was betting the 2-2-2 bet and I accrued twelve 6's that were not crossed off I would progress to the next step and start betting 3-3-3 even if I had not cleared (crossed off) all of the 1-1-1's.  Then if I accrued eleven 3-3-3's that were not crossed off I would start betting the 4-4-4 bets.  Doing it this way I could possibly be betting 4-4-4 bets and still have some 1-1-1, 2-2-2, 3-3-3-3 and 4-4-4 bets not crossed off.  Playing this way I believe is more risky because the bets can escalate faster and it is more difficult to cross off previous bets when you are deep into the progression and win a high unit bet (like 120 units) and then try to go back and cross off all the previous bets to use up the 120 units you just won, assuming the 120 unit win still left you in the hole.

[GLC]

Test #2


+75
126 spins
4-4-4 largest bet
-176 deepest draw down

[dennisbelle]

Test #2 (for me) ended at +126 units and took 152 spins.  This was a real grinder.  I got up to the 7-7-7 bets (21 units per spin) but it recovered nicely and made a tidy profit!

[dennisbelle]

Test #3 ended at +69 units and took 166 spins.  Easy session no large bets or draw downs.