opinions please

[Robeenhuut]

the best place for vnp service to hide your ip is here  link:://whm.reliablehosting.com/whmcs/ my son in law just come back from 6 months in australia and this is what he used to access all betting on his English accounts...doesn't slow down anything I'm using too when needed

You can not say that if you had no problem with connection speed using a particular VPN provider that other person wont have a problem as well. It depends on too many factors. Strong VPN also has a good reputation so you do your research but generally you can expect some drop in speed.
But it depends

[Still]

Yes it probably depends.   
The first time i downloaded some software using a remote desktop at Amazon Web Services Ec2 i was stunned.  Have never downloaded anything so fast.  I thought there was an error of some sort.  Anyway they have a free level of service for a year to draw people in that's pretty generous. Been testing a forex bot (demo mode) on it non-stop for about three months without a problem.  Its up about 300% at the moment.

[attach=1]

[Still]

Bigger problem is a verification by your money wallet like MB. They might ask 4 pics of your ID, proof of address. They also send some activation code 2 your home address. It happened 2 me but i was prepared. You can deposit directly 2 casino or use credit card but the card can not be issued in restricted territory and so on. Opening an account is free so d person should not charge you any money but d problem is that he or she still has an access 2 yr account. In this case you would need 2 transfer online immediately your winnings after they arrive to your other account.

I might propose a club of sorts.  I would prefer to call it an investment club but no matter.  The idea is to have a "Treasurer" who will handle deposits and withdrawals for the group for a fee plus enough to cover any tax liabilities.  For a local group of us i've already sketched up a spreadsheet that would keep track of all the numbers coming and going for multiple members.  The spreadsheet i'm attaching is for a binary options club.  It's not done yet but you get the idea. 

[attach=1]

I don't have a problem trusting people with small amounts of capital if they have incentive to stay with the program for a % of a growing account.  Club members have to be agreed about a game-plan, and stay within risk limits.  But it's a way to keep capital active by motivating the members to roll up their sleeves and execute the various methods agreed upon. 

This was my solution for a few of us (locally) who are having a hard time opening forex accounts (or any other kind of account) and none of us with a lot of capital to start with.  The Treasurer is someone we all trust, who, having a physical address and some net worth, more easily opens accounts. 

[6th-sense]

Robeenhuut that's true about the speed ...he was using a dongle as he was touring all over and it worked just fine no problems that's why he reccommended it to me and I'm using his password for testing which is pretty darn good..I've used vnp stuff before and always had issues with opening sites and taking forever this was doesn't......

[Still]

Still

The G.U.T is a system posted by a man named winkel.  Search for it.  I am not the second coming of winkel, but I consider myself an expert on the G.U.T. and Track4, the program droidman wrote to use with it.

Thanks for pointing those out.  Would you say these are how you took a fun account from $1000 to $5000? 

Before you go to far, you had better talk to someone who has an account at a casino.  They will tell you about verification by the casino.  Yes, there are places that will take your money, and for a fee, make a deposit, but you cannot withdraw.  Trust me; I've been skinned!  I paid dearly for one supposedly reputable company to set me up a bank account in the UK and get me a debit card.  I had an address in the UK where I could get mail ad have it forwarded to the U.S.  Let my loss of money speak to you!  I've said all I will on this subject.

Sounds like a lot of work and a lot of risk.  I propose a solution, mentioned in previous post, where motivated people find a reason to work together as a team.  Sort of a new twist on card-counting teams. 

[TwoCatSam]

a dongle............

Best laugh I've had in days!!!

Well not really.  They guy on Leno last night who fired a bottle rocket from his arse:  That rolled me off the bed.  Nearly died of asthma attack!!

Sam

[TwoCatSam]

Still

You have a great idea and I'd love for you to open the account, but you can't.

As to taxes, I've been told UK residents do not pay taxes on on-line gambling profits unless they are professionals.  Don't know if it's true, but if it is, we would sure want a UK bloke as the account holder.

Now, to answer your question about the fun account at Dublin.  Yes, I have mostly used the G.U.T. to play there.  I've spent a lot of time learning to ride the trends, so to speak.  When crossings are hitting, they hit like wild fire.  When they go cold, they can ruin you if you don't quit.  Sometimes you log on and they're cold and you just have to eat about 50Euro and move on.  A few hours later the wheel will change.

Caveat:  This is not Jump-in;Jump-out.  This is following what the wheel is doing. 

I'd sure kick in 100E to a kitty if we had some person we trust who could set up an account.  They we either have to select a player or select a rotation pattern for each player to have his/her time.

The person depositing must never let the casino or the money transfer service, if one is used, know that this is a group effort.  This will cause all kinds of problems.  Probably the best way to deposit and withdraw is with a credit card.

Can we PayPal each other money.  I mean from the U.S. to a person in Canada or Australia? 

Someone PayPal me $500.00 and let's test it!!  

Still, this was done once with rather bad results.  Also, guys have collaborated and gotten real angry with each other.  There's no guarantee of winning.  Real money vs play money is a very different game.

Dang, I talk too much.

Sam

[dino246]

I"m based in uk, i have got 2 big ish casinos only a 45 minuite walk from home + another 10 within 60 mile round trip + another 23!! in london only 100 miles away.
Have been working out a team idea to pool resources and journey-plan around all these casinos playing hit-run only.
I managed to join 7 london casinos in one evening/night nearest the tube stations AND came back with a profit.
Good Luck with your concept.

Cheers,
Dino.

[Still]

Still

You have a great idea and I'd love for you to open the account, but you can't.

As to taxes, I've been told UK residents do not pay taxes on on-line gambling profits unless they are professionals.  Don't know if it's true, but if it is, we would sure want a UK bloke as the account holder.

Yes i've resigned myself from the idea that i, as a U.S. citizen (still residing State-side), could, or would want to try and open an account given all the trouble of doing so. 

Great idea about finding a treasurer from a tax-free haven. 

Now, to answer your question about the fun account at Dublin.  Yes, I have mostly used the G.U.T. to play there.  I've spent a lot of time learning to ride the trends, so to speak.  When crossings are hitting, they hit like wild fire.  When they go cold, they can ruin you if you don't quit.  Sometimes you log on and they're cold and you just have to eat about 50Euro and move on.  A few hours later the wheel will change.

Caveat:  This is not Jump-in;Jump-out.  This is following what the wheel is doing. 

Thanks again for this info.  In club environment, this kind of info could translate directly to your benefit since anything that helps anyone in the club helps the others.  So there is incentive to share and stay a part of the group.  People are generally generous regardless. This forum is a good example.  But with a little trust their good karma could come back sooner than later. 

I'd sure kick in 100E to a kitty if we had some person we trust who could set up an account.  They we either have to select a player or select a rotation pattern for each player to have his/her time.

The person depositing must never let the casino or the money transfer service, if one is used, know that this is a group effort.  This will cause all kinds of problems.  Probably the best way to deposit and withdraw is with a credit card.

Can we PayPal each other money.  I mean from the U.S. to a person in Canada or Australia?

I would too.  That's not too much, not too little.  I'm not too worried about the treasurer running off with deposits or profits because if the group is successful, there's little reason to take the money and run for the same reason there's little reason to walk away from a mutual fund that consistently generate passive income every year, or every month.  The knowledge shared in the group is the number one asset of the group.  Only if the treasurer could run off with both might there be some motivation to do so, but i still doubt that's enough incentive.  Because now, the treasurer must apply all that knowledge alone, to a lone account, to generate income.  No more passive income.   

Someone PayPal me $500.00 and let's test it!!  

Still, this was done once with rather bad results.  Also, guys have collaborated and gotten real angry with each other.  There's no guarantee of winning.  Real money vs play money is a very different game.

Dang, I talk too much.

Sam

I can see how that might go south.  On the other hand, even folks with no scruples could manage to work together if it was obvious they were better off doing so.  In the old days they called them "pirates".  Nowadays they call them a "corporation".  In this case, it would be a multinational corporation, loosely affiliated, leveraging trust to overcome the burdens of the law (taxes etc)...not unlike the Federal Reserve...oops, i talk too much. 

Yes, anger could arise when there is more risk (or lost opportunity) involved than people are comfortable with.  And with casino games where people really aren't sure of what the outcome ought to be, i sure wouldn't want to be the guy on rotation when the hammer of doom  fell.  Also there could be anger whenever compliance with group rules is not easily tracked, and so, blame is more easily passed. 

One way to work is just have each executive (player) prove something on a fun account before getting a license to "drive" the group funds.  And, as the funds grow, it will automatically attract as much capital as needed/wanted.  If the fund grows fast enough, the need to deposit more funds becomes kind of moot.  So i see reasonable risks all around. 

[6th-sense]

a dongle............

Best laugh I've had in days!!!

Well not really.  They guy on Leno last night who fired a bottle rocket from his arse:  That rolled me off the bed.  Nearly died of asthma attack!!

Sam

lol glad to see someone on the ball sam ...laughed my head off too when i posted it 

[Still]

I"m based in uk, i have got 2 big ish casinos only a 45 minuite walk from home + another 10 within 60 mile round trip + another 23!! in london only 100 miles away.
Have been working out a team idea to pool resources and journey-plan around all these casinos playing hit-run only.
I managed to join 7 london casinos in one evening/night nearest the tube stations AND came back with a profit.
Good Luck with your concept.

Cheers,
Dino.

These sound like good qualifications for a treasurer of a multinational, loosely affiliated corporation. 

The incentives for participating in a group is it gives the active members a larger BR to work with.  Assuming the active members get to keep 50% of the profits from the use of group funds, it's a no brainier.  The more funds in the account, the greater the profits for the active member, if and when there is a profit.  It would only work as each active member stayed within mutually agreed risk tolerance parameters. Passive profits would be proportional to a members %share of the group funds, and would grow about half as fast as the active member funds.  A treasurer would earn %fees of deposits coming in and profits/withdrawals coming out.  So there is incentive to be a "good" treasurer since the combination of these %fees and passive income could be significant.  All the more if the treasurer is active. 

  This thread is/was a good example of how a group can agree to rules and risk tolerance procedures.  When active members are going to B&M casinos, it's harder to track whether they are following the rules, so there is a greater need for trust.  Trust well placed is a good thing; a bad thing when it's not.  In this thread, JohnLegend is trusting ten players to honestly report results.  in my opinion, a club environment would be similar, with as many safeguards as possible so everyone can feel comfortable and not become angry over trivial matters. 

 

[flukey luke]

One way to work is just have each executive (player) prove something on a fun account before getting a license to "drive" the group funds. 

You should be asking for real proof. Something akin to a 'credit check'

Someone could easily withdraw the funds from their online accounts and then allow an inspection from a trusted member of the group.

What could be looked for?

Monthly profits.
No flurry of deposits after a loss indicating ill discipline.


Award points for certain criteria. You will soon whittle down the pretenders from the contenders.

The potential then is for a group to put their resources together and fight the casino on a more level playing field.

Part of me thinks what would be the point? Winners don't need any help and are more than likely very protective of their winning strategies.

Good luck with your idea. There is probably more chance of man landing on mars within the next decade than you finding the right calibre of people for your suggestion to make it work successfully. (just my honest opinion)

[Still]

You should be asking for real proof. Something akin to a 'credit check'

Someone could easily withdraw the funds from their online accounts and then allow an inspection from a trusted member of the group.

Definitely, active members would be getting a lot of "credit" so-to-speak.  There's a way to pass inspections for sure, whatever they may be.   

What could be looked for?

Monthly profits.
No flurry of deposits after a loss indicating ill discipline.

One of the reasons for grouping is because some of us can't open accounts in our home country.  So, for example, i would not be able to post real results from any online account...unless it was a group account.   To handle this, the group treasurer could maintain multiple designated accounts, where an account(s) can be assigned to new active members to prove something.  Those accounts could start unfunded, and become funded with a certain amount of "credit" so-to-speak. That credit could be the active members own money, for example.   As an executive is proven (by whatever minimum standard could be agreed upon), more and more credit can be allowed up to a mutually agreed maximum of group funds.   

Award points for certain criteria. You will soon whittle down the pretenders from the contenders.

Yes, there must be a way to do this. 

The potential then is for a group to put their resources together and fight the casino on a more level playing field.

Either that or fight national laws on a more level playing field.  A bigger BR does tend to help against the casinos big BR, and the knowledge within the group would tend toward that even more.  This forum is an example of an attempt to do just that.  Within a group, however, i believe there would be even more incentive to share good information, since it affects everyone's bottom line.  Active members would either be leveraging private information or group information.  If private, the dynamics change considerably.  In that situation, the privateer would need more trust and proof to use group funds.  And when dealing with casino games, i don't know that i (or many others) would  be comfortable with a privateer who manages money like a mutual fund manager on Wall Street.  But it's possible. 

I am something of a privateer in terms of the one forex account i am managing for one client/friend.  There's a hundred dollars in that account, which he holds, where i have full access to run a robot.  My friend doesn't want to or need to know anything about the robots, which is a whole other learning curve that i am not motivated to teach.  If i did teach it, i'd teach only to potentially active group members, so i could benefit from what i impart.   But because the learning curve for that is so steep, and because it's mostly agreed that there are non-random patterns that can be exploited in the stock-commodities-futures-forex markets, a privateer solution can work. 

But with casinos, i don't know about you, but i want to know what's under the hood...how it is supposed to work...what to expect.   

Part of me thinks what would be the point? Winners don't need any help and are more than likely very protective of their winning strategies.

There's some logic to that.  The strategies of a group like this would likely be based on anything/everything that is already open source, such as the information in this forum.  And it would appeal to anyone whose profits are not fully automated (passive), which is almost anyone, winner or not.  If you are a B&M player, for example, your profits stop as soon as you walk away from the table, walk out of the casino, and go to bed.   The benefits of a group is that, in theory, while you sleep, your money can still be working, growing about half as fast as it grows for the active member, during the session that active member is using group funds.  And while you are a winner, and actively awake and playing, you make more than you normally would, if the group BR is bigger than your normal, personal, private BR. 

This principle is used by multinational banks all day, every day.  They hire traders to speculate and/or hedge the banks funds.  Sometimes the trader comes with his/her own private knowledge that the bank leverages.  Other times, traders within the bank share knowledge for the benefit of all.  Traders are expected to stay within risk limits, and their activity is monitored.  They are sometimes given long leashes, and sometimes that backfires like it did recently with JP Morgan.  But that won't change too much the basic formula.  Banks bank on the trust they give to their traders, and in turn, the traders make more than if they were trading their own account.

And once again, you might have winners from the U.S., but wouldn't know it otherwise.   

Good luck with your idea. There is probably more chance of man landing on mars within the next decade than you finding the right calibre of people for your suggestion to make it work successfully. (just my honest opinion)

Thanks very much. 

This is something i am organizing locally and thought i would see if it could also fly amongst online personalities as well.  It seems to me that if a group like Anonymous (pretty high caliber hackers) can find each other and organize some concerted resistance, the idea i'm proposing here ought also to be doable in due time. 

[TwoCatSam]

Still

You're talking way over my head.  I'm in, but why not have ten players put in 100E and when a withdrawal is made, each gets 10%?

Gotta run.....

Sam

[Still]

Still

You're talking way over my head.  I'm in, but why not have ten players put in 100E and when a withdrawal is made, each gets 10%?

Gotta run.....

Sam

The spreadsheet sample i linked earlier shows how it's possible for anyone to deposit or withdraw any amount any time...and be compensated accordingly.  That way it's more flexible like a mutual fund.  If Bob puts in 100 and Jim puts in 200 and the fund grows 10% after that, then Bob could withdraw 10 and Jim could withdraw 20...if they want.  If they don't, then their profits get automatically internally redeposited so that compounding can kick in.  If Jim withdraws 20 and Bob recycles his 10, its ok.  The spreadsheet keeps track of what %share of profits anyone is owed, relative to all others.  There would never need to be a reason to do anything as a group, except to all agree on the same rules and abide by them.   I feel this is most attractive to whatever contribution/capital anyone is willing to invest at any time.  If capital is allowed to leave freely, it will also arrive freely.  Six months down the road, the group could discover a great player/asset and have an easy mechanism to include latecomers.  How often anyone can deposit or withdraw would need to be decided in conjunction with common sense as well as the actual treasurer who would be doing that.  Typically, a mutual fund allows deposits or withdrawals once a day.  But the more work it requires of the treasurer, the less frequent that might be.  In the old days of investment clubs, a once-a-month opportunity to either get in or get out was typical.   The treasurer will have incentive %fees to do the work, but at first those fees are going to be small and so that kind of work might better be grouped/done on a weekly basis. 

The spreadsheet can be accessible to all members of the group at all times via Google Documents.  Certain pages, or even certain cells of the online spreadsheet can be locked so that it can be viewed by all, but edited by the authorized member for that area/cell.   This way, the formulas in the spreadsheet can't be messed with or vandalized, nor would there be any confusion about who is editing what.  Each member, for example, would have their own page where they, and only they enter their results per session.   They would include what their base unit of risk was, for example, and their results per game.    Might even include links to before and after screenshots.  Then, the spreadsheet can calculate how much of their profit, if any, is owed to them, and how much is owed to the group.  To be eligible for profit incentives, however, a player would need to be in the black (positive) over the whole history of their results...not just the one session. 

A fully editable copy of the spreadsheet could be reserved for download by anyone in the group so they can inspect the formulas, and play with it to see how it all works.  This is for transparency.