EC System

[GLC]

A.

Not a bad looking session.

I guess it doesn't matter how many spins it takes to pull ahead, if you can keep you bets as low as possible and still win then by increasing the size of your units, you make it very profitable.

G.

[jordan69]

Hi GLC,

Thanks for the update. I have not tried it that way yet. But anyway see this:

This real numbers session from Spielbank, Wiesbaden uses "best of five" progression.
To start play the first FIVE bets at ONE unit.

After 5 bets if level or reached a new high then reduce stake to 1 unit (unless already at 1 unit)
After 5 bets if behind current highest total (total after 5 bets that is) then increase by 1 unit.

If  AT ANY TIME when playing the 5-bet cycle the profit goes to level or ahead of your current highest 5-bet total - then immediately reduce stake to 1 unit and play out the the rest of the 5 spin cycle at 1 unit...

[table=,]
Spin,Number,Type,Bet Unit,Win,Loss,Net,Unit Bal.,Bet Layout
1,7,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500,
2,17,Bet,1,2,-1,1,501,1 : Black
3,27,Bet,1,2,-1,1,502,1 : Red
4,3,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501,1 : Black
5,26,Bet,1,2,-1,1,502,1 : Black
6,8,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501,1 : Red   +1 so stay at 1

7,21,Bet,1,2,-1,1,502,1 : Red
8,0,Bet,1,0,-0.5,-0.5,501.5,1 : Black
9,24,Bet,1,2,-1,1,502.5,1 : Black
10,20,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501.5,1 : Red
11,22,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,500.5,1 : Red +0.5 so increase to 2

12,33,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
13,3,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
14,26,Bet,2,4,-2,2,502.5,2 : Black  +2.5 so reduce to 1
15,24,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501.5,1 : Red
16,14,Bet,1,2,-1,1,502.5,1 : Red
17,27,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501.5,1 : Black
18,7,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,500.5,1 : Black +0.5 so increase to 2

19,5,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
20,9,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
21,0,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
22,1,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
23,15,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
24,30,Bet,2,4,-2,2,502.5,2 : Red +2.5 so reduce to 1
25,14,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501.5,1 : Black
26,14,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,500.5,1 : Black
27,33,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
28,2,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,499.5,1 : Red
29,30,Bet,1,2,-1,1,500.5,1 : Red +0.5 so increase to 2

30,28,Bet,2,4,-2,2,502.5,2 : Black +2.5 so reduce to 1
31,26,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501.5,1 : Red
32,14,Bet,1,2,-1,1,502.5,1 : Red
33,9,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501.5,1 : Black
34,36,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,500.5,1 : Black +0.5 so increase to 2

35,25,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
36,36,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
37,25,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
38,35,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500.5,
39,9,Bet,2,4,-2,2,502.5,2 : Red +2.5 so reduce to 1
40,10,Bet,1,2,-1,1,503.5,1 : Black
41,21,Bet,1,2,-1,1,504.5,1 : Red
42,16,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,503.5,1 : Black
43,20,Bet,1,2,-1,1,504.5,1 : Black +4.5 so stay at 1

44,12,Bet,1,2,-1,1,505.5,1 : Red
45,26,Bet,1,2,-1,1,506.5,1 : Black
46,32,Bet,1,2,-1,1,507.5,1 : Red
47,14,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,506.5,1 : Black
48,18,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,505.5,1 : Black +5.5 so stay at 1

49,26,No Bet,0,0,0,0,505.5,
50,23,Bet,1,2,-1,1,506.5,1 : Red
51,23,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,505.5,1 : Black
52,9,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,504.5,1 : Black
53,13,No Bet,0,0,0,0,504.5,
54,5,Bet,1,2,-1,1,505.5,1 : Red
55,21,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,504.5,1 : Black +4.5 so increase to 2

56,3,Bet,2,0,-2,-2,502.5,2 : Black
57,0,No Bet,0,0,0,0,502.5,
58,8,No Bet,0,0,0,0,502.5,
59,19,Bet,2,4,-2,2,504.5,2 : Red
60,24,Bet,2,4,-2,2,506.5,2 : Black +6.5 so reduce to 1
61,0,Bet,1,0,-0.5,-0.5,506,1 : Red
62,2,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,505,1 : Red +5 so increase to 2

63,32,Bet,2,4,-2,2,507,2 : Red +7 so reduce to 1
64,10,Bet,1,2,-1,1,508,1 : Black
65,9,Bet,1,2,-1,1,509,1 : Red
66,9,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,508,1 : Black
67,27,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,507,1 : Black +7 so stay at 1

68,5,No Bet,0,0,0,0,507,
69,6,No Bet,0,0,0,0,507,
70,31,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,506,1 : Red
71,23,Bet,1,2,-1,1,507,1 : Red
72,24,Bet,1,2,-1,1,508,1 : Black
73,12,Bet,1,2,-1,1,509,1 : Red
74,7,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,508,1 : Black +8 so stay at 1

75,19,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,507,1 : Black
76,2,No Bet,0,0,0,0,507,
77,2,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,506,1 : Red
78,12,Bet,1,2,-1,1,507,1 : Red
79,11,Bet,1,2,-1,1,508,1 : Black
80,21,Bet,1,2,-1,1,509,1 : Red +9 so stay at 1

81,0,Bet,1,0,-0.5,-0.5,508.5,1 : Black
82,4,Bet,1,2,-1,1,509.5,1 : Black
83,20,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,508.5,1 : Red
84,34,Bet,1,2,-1,1,509.5,1 : Red
85,9,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,508.5,1 : Black +8.5 so increase to 2

86,31,Bet,2,4,-2,2,510.5,2 : Black +10 so reduce to 1
87,14,Bet,1,2,-1,1,511.5,1 : Red
88,8,Bet,1,2,-1,1,512.5,1 : Black
89,27,Bet,1,2,-1,1,513.5,1 : Red
90,9,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,512.5,1 : Black +12.5 so stay at 1

91,7,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,511.5,1 : Black
92,28,No Bet,0,0,0,0,511.5,
93,17,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,510.5,1 : Red
94,18,Bet,1,2,-1,1,511.5,1 : Red
95,22,Bet,1,2,-1,1,512.5,1 : Black
96,33,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,511.5,1 : Red +11.5 so increase to 2

97,15,Bet,2,0,-2,-2,509.5,2 : Red
98,2,No Bet,0,0,0,0,509.5,
99,19,No Bet,0,0,0,0,509.5,
100,26,Bet,2,4,-2,2,511.5,2 : Black
[/table]
END OF SESSION AT 100 SPINS (on spin 2 of cycle of 5)

100 spins.
+11.5 units
Highest bet=2
lowest bankroll = 499.5/500

Obviously there will be sessions with higher stake levels but maybe the bet selection + the "best of 5" can cope with that and outstay a difficult and protracted period?

Atlantis.

It sounds really good.
Great job Atlantis, as always
I'm going to test it this week.

Cheers.

Jordan69

[F_LAT_INO]

One of the ways to win...with lot of patience and small aim
without any risk of losing big.

[jordan69]

That's exactly what i think F_LAT_INO 

And honestly, this is what we need...

[GLC]

Atlantis,

I was PMing with F_LAT_INO about another system and mentioned that I liked his Random vs Random for ECs and thought that betting in opposition may be worth a try on this system.  I will give it a try and post some results.

The way I see it working, is to select bets exactly as you have outlined where we are basically betting for chops.  But also bet the opposite way for streaks.  I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't work because when 1 is losing, the other should be winning.

We'll see.

G

[GLC]

A.

Okay, I did a short test just to get an idea how things would go.  Looks pretty solid.

29 spins
+15 units.
-6  highest drawdown
5 highest bet

It was a little confusing because I didn't think through exactly how I was going to play.  The confusion was on the streaks, do you wait for 2 in a row to start betting or do you bet for a repeat from the 1st of a color just like you bet for a chop from the 1st color?  Also, I found myself only wanting to bet for 1 shot instead of two.  This kept my bets smaller since I never had to bet both sides on the same color.  I continued to bet twice on the chops side, but forgot to bet twice on the streak side most of the time.  It didn't seem to make a lot of difference.

It's late and I'm tired.  I'll try another session, a little longer one, tomorrow.  One thing I notice is that it wins more rapidly with two lines of bets going, and when you get a long string of chops or repeats, you stop betting on the opposing side which increases your wins dramatically.

I'm sure there's an achilles heel, I'm just not sure what the sequence is that'll kill this.  It'll rear it's ugly head soon enough.

Good Night,

George

[GLC]

Decided to run another quick session using some actuals from Wiesbaden.  Randomly picked 18-05-2010.  This is the freakyest session I can imagine.  I'll try to present it so you can see what happens.

           Chops                                               Repeats                                Totals

Spun        Color    Amt      +/-    Acc          Color      Amt       +/-    Acc        
Color         Bet      Bet                                 Bet      Bet

B
R               R           1          +     +1                        NB=No Bet                         +1
B               B           1          +     +1                        NB                                      +2
R               R           1          +     +1                        NB                                           +3
B               B           1          +     +1                        NB                                           +4
R               R           1          +     +1                        NB                                           +5
B               B           1          +     +1                        NB                                           +6
R               R           1          +     +1                        NB                                           +7
R               B           1          -      -1                         NB                                           +6  
R                  NB                                            R        1            +          +1                +7
R                  NB                                            R        1            +          +1                +8
R                  NB                                            R        1            +          +1                +9
R                  NB                                            R        1            +          +1               +10
R                  NB                                            R        1            +          +1               +11
R                 NB                                             R        1            +          +1               +12    
B                  NB                                            R        1            -           -1                +10
R               R           2           +      +1                      NB                                          +11
B               B           1           +      +1                      NB                                          +13
R                R          1           +      +1                     NB                                           +14

I'm too tired to keep going, but it continued a little more back and forth than this for another 17 spins for a total win of +27 units in a total of 35 spins.

I swear I didn't hand pick the date for the spin history.

Just shows you how powerful this system can be during the best spins.

You can see that I didn't go for the 2 unit bet after a loss.  I'm not sure which way is better.


George    

[atlantis]

HI GLC,

It can get really confusing if playing 2 EC's at the same time - but maybe 2 players could do it.

Here I am using the exact same selection method but using now "best of 4" instead of "best of 5".
A couple of changes - -
Cycle of 4 is immediately reset ANYTIME when bank reaches level or ahead of current highest END-OF-CYCLE figure total and the stake is dropped to 1 unit for the start of a completely NEW cycle of 4.

If betting 2 or more units and a 4 spin cycle is ended and if not level or ahead of current highest profit figure then increase stake by a further unit if current bank is LESS than at end of last cycle... OR keep to same stake level if an improvement in bank since the end of the last cycle.
An example of this is on Spin 82 where the bank increased from 503.5 to 505 after a 4 spin cycle played at 3 units - here the stakes did not increase to 4 but were kept @ 3 units... On spin 85 a new highest profit of 514 was reached so a new cycle of 4 was immediately restarted with stakes lowered to 1 unit.

I think this is better way to use the "best of 4/5" progression.

Here is a real 100 spin session from yesterday:

Spielbank Wiesbaden 31 Aug 2010 - Table 8
=================================
[table=,]
Spin,Number,Type,Bet Unit,Win,Loss,Net,Unit Bal.,Bet Layout
1,13,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500,
2,1,Bet,1,2,-1,1,501,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
3,10,Bet,1,2,-1,1,502,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
4,16,Bet,1,2,-1,1,503,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
5,32,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,502,1 : Black
6,13,Bet,1,2,-1,1,503,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
7,4,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,502,1 : Red
8,28,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501,1 : Red
9,36,No Bet,0,0,0,0,501,
10,26,Bet,1,2,-1,1,502,1 : Black
11,10,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501,1 : Red *start new cycle@2
12,35,Bet,2,0,-2,-2,499,2 : Red
13,1,No Bet,0,0,0,0,499,
14,3,Bet,2,0,-2,-2,497,2 : Black
15,24,Bet,2,4,-2,2,499,2 : Black
16,26,Bet,2,0,-2,-2,497,2 : Red *start new cycle@3
17,16,Bet,3,6,-3,3,500,3 : Red
18,11,Bet,3,6,-3,3,503,3 : Black *restart cycle@1
19,26,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,502,1 : Red
20,13,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501,1 : Red
21,15,No Bet,0,0,0,0,501,
22,17,No Bet,0,0,0,0,501,
23,21,No Bet,0,0,0,0,501,
24,20,Bet,1,2,-1,1,502,1 : Black
25,12,Bet,1,2,-1,1,503,1 : Red *start new cycle@1
26,30,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,502,1 : Black
27,36,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501,1 : Black
28,11,No Bet,0,0,0,0,501,
29,11,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,500,1 : Red
30,12,Bet,1,2,-1,1,501,1 : Red *start new cycle@2
31,35,Bet,2,4,-2,2,503,2 : Black *restart cycle@1
32,29,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,502,1 : Red
33,3,Bet,1,2,-1,1,503,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
34,19,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,502,1 : Black
35,22,Bet,1,2,-1,1,503,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
36,7,Bet,1,2,-1,1,504,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
37,27,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,503,1 : Black
38,35,Bet,1,2,-1,1,504,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
39,2,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,503,1 : Red
40,36,Bet,1,2,-1,1,504,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
41,29,Bet,1,2,-1,1,505,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
42,18,Bet,1,2,-1,1,506,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
43,20,Bet,1,2,-1,1,507,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
44,6,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,506,1 : Red
45,1,Bet,1,2,-1,1,507,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
46,15,Bet,1,2,-1,1,508,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
47,7,Bet,1,2,-1,1,509,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
48,1,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,508,1 : Black
49,30,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,507,1 : Black
50,26,No Bet,0,0,0,0,507,
51,23,Bet,1,2,-1,1,508,1 : Red
52,2,Bet,1,2,-1,1,509,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
53,31,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,508,1 : Red
54,9,Bet,1,2,-1,1,509,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
55,0,Bet,1,0,-0.5,-0.5,508.5,1 : Black
56,18,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,507.5,1 : Black
57,17,Bet,1,2,-1,1,508.5,1 : Black
58,19,Bet,1,2,-1,1,509.5,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
59,33,Bet,1,2,-1,1,510.5,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
60,30,Bet,1,2,-1,1,511.5,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
61,6,Bet,1,2,-1,1,512.5,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
62,7,Bet,1,2,-1,1,513.5,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
63,25,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,512.5,1 : Black
64,17,Bet,1,2,-1,1,513.5,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
65,11,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,512.5,1 : Red
66,31,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,511.5,1 : Red
67,13,No Bet,0,0,0,0,511.5,
68,5,No Bet,0,0,0,0,511.5,
69,25,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,510.5,1 : Black
70,2,Bet,1,2,-1,1,511.5,1 : Black *start new cycle@2
71,35,Bet,2,0,-2,-2,509.5,2 : Red
72,28,Bet,2,0,-2,-2,507.5,2 : Red
73,26,No Bet,0,0,0,0,507.5,
74,14,No Bet,0,0,0,0,507.5,
75,3,Bet,2,0,-2,-2,505.5,2 : Black
76,16,Bet,2,0,-2,-2,503.5,2 : Black *start new cycle@3
77,36,No Bet,0,0,0,0,503.5,
78,29,No Bet,0,0,0,0,503.5,
79,31,Bet,3,0,-3,-3,500.5,3 : Red
80,0,Bet,3,0,-1.5,-1.5,499,3 : Red
81,21,Bet,3,6,-3,3,502,3 : Red
82,28,Bet,3,6,-3,3,505,3 : Black *start new cycle@3
83,7,Bet,3,6,-3,3,508,3 : Red
84,13,Bet,3,6,-3,3,511,3 : Black
85,14,Bet,3,6,-3,3,514,3 : Red *restart cycle@1
86,3,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,513,1 : Black
87,21,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,512,1 : Black
88,15,No Bet,0,0,0,0,512,
89,32,Bet,1,2,-1,1,513,1 : Red
90,36,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,512,1 : Black *start new cycle@2
91,22,Bet,2,4,-2,2,514,2 : Black *restart cycle@1
92,18,Bet,1,2,-1,1,515,1 : Red *restart cycle@1
93,24,Bet,1,2,-1,1,516,1 : Black *restart cycle@1
94,10,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,515,1 : Red
95,6,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,514,1 : Red
96,5,No Bet,0,0,0,0,514,
97,0,Bet,1,0,-0.5,-0.5,513.5,1 : Black
98,21,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,512.5,1 : Black *start new cycle@2
99,13,Bet,2,4,-2,2,514.5,2 : Black
100,12,Bet,2,4,-2,2,516.5,2 : Red *restart cycle@1
[/table]
END OF 100 SPIN SESSION. (abt. 1hr 40min)

+16.5 pts.
Highest Bet=3
Max Drawdown=14.5
Lowest Bankroll=497/500

Good Luck,
Atlantis.

[GLC]

A.

I like the change in betting progression.  I was testing using 5 at a time and was having some real down swings to recover from.  This new change should level things out a little.  I've tested this using the cancellation method starting with 1 unit.  Bet 1, if lose write down 1 next to the first 1 and next bet 2.  If lose, write 2 down and bet 3 etc...  This is as close to canceling 2 for 1 as we can get which means we have to have a really bad run to tank.  A run that tanks this, will tank anything, therefore, we have have a good win target vs stop loss.

Sometimes I'm not sure all the gymnastics we go through for bet amounts don't make that much difference in the long run.  If I'm betting 3 on R chops and 4 on B repeats using differential betting, I only bet 1 on B, the wheel doesn't know how I decided to bet 1 on B.  I could probably just pick any amount to bet and bet it and have just as good a chance to win in the long run.  Roulette is surely an intriguing game.

I have a good feeling about this bet selection method, and even though it is a bit involved to bet both sides, I think it will be worth it.  If you can use pen and paper, it's not so bad.

I realize that your 2nd bet after a loss is important.  Otherwise, all your doing is betting for chops and after 1 loss your betting for repeats and after 1 loss back on chops etc...  I've tried that before to no real advantage.

LOL,

George

[GLC]

Atlantis,

I have been testing your system betting both chops and streaks simultaneously.  I have been starting with 1 unit that I want to win on each attack.  If I lose, I follow the rules for the cancellation betting system.

I play the chop bet selection just as you outlined in your 1st post.  For the streaks, I wait until I have two of the same color before I bet for the streak to continue.  If I lose, I bet again for the streak to pick back up.  If I lose 2 bets on streaks, it means I have 2 colors in a row, so I immediately begin betting that the new color will continue to streak.  This means that I bet every spin on the streak side.

This means that sometime I'm betting on B and R at the same time in which case I bet differentially.  Sometime I'm only betting on the streak side which means I'm streaking and waiting for a single to appear so I can begin betting on the chops side also.  Sometime I'm betting on the same color on both sides.  This can sometimes be a pretty large bet.  It's always nice when they hit.

I played both of the sessions you posted above with this bet method and won 79 units with your 1st session and 65 units with your second session.  I played an additional session on betvoyager and won 46 units in 45 spins.

I know this betting system is more aggressive than yours, but if we can win at such a rapid pace, with a good stop loss, I think we can make a profitable system even with aggressive betting.

My next test is to go back to your +1/-1 bet system.  I think it will win at a good pace without as high a possibility of getting into big bets.

The whole foundation to this system is your bet selection method which gives us few 5 or 6 in a row losing steaks to overcome but gives us many 1,2 and 3 in a row winning streaks.

I don't think we need to be too conservative with our bet system.  Future test may prove me wrong.  It won't be the first time.  We'll see.

George

[atlantis]

I'm impressed with your results GLC!

It's great you're having some good fortune with this and the idea of playing both sides in the manner you related and using differential betting sounds neat and cool. I look forward to any follow-up findings you have to report.
This may really be a breakthrough variation. Still, I am also happy with the way it performs using one EC with "best of 4". It's easy to play and I'm growing in confidence - always a danger sign
This morning, just for interest, tried a 100 spin session using d'alembert (+1/-1) starting with 10 units and achieved +88.5 using original selection method only.


Best wishes,
A.

[GLC]

A.

I too have been testing with the original +1/-1 D'alembert with equally good results.  I just can't understand why this new bet selection method produces such a good win vs loss ratio.  Unfortunately, being from the US, I only have access to a local double zero wheel.  I think I will start testing on 0/00 and see if it holds up well enough to test with real money.

G.

[warrior]

NICE THREAD A. just got back from holidays i will be trying this out .

[atlantis]

Hi Warrior,

Hope you find this method of interest and enjoy the tryout.

I feel happiest to use "best of 4" idea with the original selection method - that's because I don't want to risk too much or get into high progression. So I am more cautious than aggressive.

Latest result with Spielbank Wiesbaden spins for 31 Aug 2010 Table 8:

+10.5 after 138 spins (+8 after 100 spins)
max drawdown=13
highest bet=4
lowest bankroll=493 out of 500

Atlantis.

[GLC]

A.

I tried a different bet system.  It is a modified D'alembert.  +2 on lose, -3 on win, re-set when you reach a new high.  Play both chops and streaks.  I have started to test this progression because with such a good win rate, the +2/-3 helps keep the bets from rising too rapidly during a pro-longed losing streak.  If things get too wild, you can even go to +2/-4 to bring them back more quickly.  This will result in a pro-longed attack.  Should probably take a loss when you find yourself back at betting 1 unit.  This should keep you out of the deep holes you can find yourself with the cancellation method.

This is easier to play because you can tell automatically what you need to bet in your head.

This was played on a 0/00 air-ball wheel.
58 spins played
+52 units won
Largest bet +9
Largest draw-down -14
Lowest point down 494/500.

I'm still looking for that tough series to come along to show us what we're up against.  So far it's being way too easy.

Let's keep testing.

George

P.S.  Glad to have you on board Warrior.