EC System

[Bazeegar]

What has prompted you to make this latest change, Atlantis? I have been following the progress and wanted to test. 

[GLC]

Okay,  I ran the remaining 184 spins.

My system ended at +50.  87 wins vs 97 losses.  This was the harder half, although still a respectable win.  

Add the +60 from the first half = +110 for 344 spins.
Your system won +61 units for the 344 spins.

My largest bet was +16.
Your largest bet was +8.

Neither system was in the hole after losing the first bet.

344 Spins is about 7 hours play on a live table.

Your system took 5.6 spins to win 1 unit.
Mine took 3.1 spins per unit.

It looks like I win!!! Yahooooo  

(Just kidding Victor.  A. knows I'm always rational about these things, just like to kid around.)

Atlantis,  I thought my system would perform better than this.  But, because of the lower risk of your system, I would have to give yours the nod.

I'm still looking for a real bummer sequence where both betting systems lose to get a feel for how much more stable yours is.

The reason I don't just adopt your betting system is that I really have a patience issue.  I may need counseling.  I just hate sitting at a table grinding out a few units for hours on end.  (I suppose $100 units could add a little spice to that grind.)

I know that I would win more, faster, by going to a 1-2-4; 2-4-8; 3-6-12 or 1-2-4-8; 2-4-8-16; 3-6-12-24 etc... bet sequence.  The problem is that I also know that when I have a losing session it'll take me back a big chunk.

With a reasonable win target and stop loss, I might be better off in the long run with one of these more aggressive sequences.

Darn, it just takes so much time to test all this stuff to make a good, educated decision.

Oh well.  One of my problems is all I have access to is a double zero wheel.  Big disadvantage.  I could take a vacation in Croatia and visit our friend Iboba.  Slide on up to Slovenia and take advantage of En Prison roulette.  Heck I might as well just stay in Slovenia.  My wife would give her eye teeth to live there.  It's a beautiful country too.  Iboba can meet me at the casino for a few night sessions.  But, unfortunately, no more vacations for a while.  

Those of us in the US are at such a disadvantage.  Hopefully, soon we'll be able to play on the internet legally here in Arizona.  Till then good luck to all of you.

GLC

[GLC]

What has prompted you to make this latest change, Atlantis? I have been following the progress and wanted to test. 

Bazeegar,

I know you asked this of A., but if you don't mind since I'm still on the internet I'll throw in my two cents worth.  I'm  not completely sold on the new change.  As I said above, I think his new method is a good bet selection method, but I don't know if it's better than chops and streaks.  I especially want to continue testing the old way with my new betting method.

It is becoming more and more obvious that we were having some really good spin sequences early on.  With some of the latest ones, I have been realizing that this is not going to be a run away best seller.  I think it still has good potential, but I don't think it's going to prove to  be better than, or maybe not as good as, F_LAT_INO's Random VS Random system. 

I'm for sure going to test my new betting method on his system.

Please, do some testing.  We could use the added input.

Thanks,

George

[atlantis]

Hi GLC,

I'm still looking for a real bummer sequence where both betting systems lose to get a feel for how much more stable yours is.

I'm sure it will rear its ugly head at some point suring this early testing phase

The reason I don't just adopt your betting system is that I really have a patience issue.  I may need counseling.  I just hate sitting at a table grinding out a few units for hours on end.  (I suppose $100 units could add a little spice to that grind.)

There must be lots of variations - and nothing is set in stone; but would be nice to find the optimum arrangement to play.

I know that I would win more, faster, by going to a 1-2-4; 2-4-8; 3-6-12 or 1-2-4-8; 2-4-8-16; 3-6-12-24 etc... bet sequence.  The problem is that I also know that when I have a losing session it'll take me back a big chunk.

Indeed. I really appreciate your ongoing investigations into the staking pattern. It is very informative and helpful.

With a reasonable win target and stop-loss, I might be better off in the long run with one of these more aggressive sequences.

I agree a target and stop/loss are advisable. Even a stop-play rule maybe after continuous losses whilst awaiting a VIRTUAL win before resuming?

Bazeegar wrote:

What has prompted you to make this latest change, Atlantis? I have been following the progress and wanted to test. 

I still LIKE the previous way and it has merit - but can be slow and patience-testing as GLC remarked; just wanted to see how it performs using a switch.  I'm not entirely sure if it will work out better than playing a single side or both sides together...  Initally looks good. Just throwing it out there as an alternative and see what others think... Thanks.


A.

[GLC]

A.

(How do you highlight a small portion of a post so you can comment on it as in your last post?)

After doing some more testing, I have come to a preliminary conclusion that the 1-2; 2-4; 3-6; etc... progression is hard to improve on.  It does go in the hole further in a bad stretch, but it comes out quicker and you win more units per spin with this one.  I have noticed that compared to 1 up/ 1 down, it doesn't go as far in the hole, barely, and it recovers much faster.


The 1-2-4-8 is too cumbersome and a couple of losses close together takes a long time to recover.

1-2-3; 2-4-6; 3-6-9; etc... is less aggressive than 1-2, wins less and doesn't go as deep into the hole.

My next thought is on the fact that in a really bad sequence of spins we can get pretty deep in the hole and it can take forever to climb out.  I'm think of levels of betting that become more and more aggressive as you go deeper and deeper in the hole

Say 1-2-3; 2-4-6; 3-6-9; then instead of 4-8-12; go to 5-10-15; then 7-14-21; 9-18-27; etc  This will recover quickly a lot of small losses.  The danger is if the losing sequence continues it will drive you deeper into the hole.  That's where we have to have a stop loss.  Maybe 150 or 200 units.  This is the case with any progression no matter how slow.  There is always an extended sequence that will cause you to bump up against a wall at some point.

We have to accept the "FACT" that we will have sessions from hell and learn how to win in spite of them.

Cheers,

George

[atlantis]

Hi GLC,

I just cut'n'pasted your text and enclosed it with the forum "quote" open/close tags...e.g.

This is a quote!

Now here is a *very interesting* new idea variation to try:

Single 0 (le partage)

This time we bet in the sequence CHOP/STREAK/CHOP/STREAK/CHOP/STREAK...etc starting with the formation of the first single chance formed and commencing with CHOP.
Here I am using the RED/BLACK EC.
PROGRESSION: up 1 on a loss; down 1 on a win (unless can reduce further to win +1 on next spin)
*Reset to 1 when level or ahead of current highest profit figure.

It is simple to operate, remember and chart.

Casino Wiesbaden 10 Sep 2010 - Table 9
===============================
[table=,]
Spin,Number,=Type=,=Bet=,=Win=,Loss,=Net=,Unit Bal.,Bet Layout
1,16,No Bet,0,0,0,0,500, Red first number - so bet B
2,4,Bet,1,2,-1,1,501,1 : Black CHOP W+1
3,16,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,500,1 : Black STREAK L+0
4,16,Bet,2,0,-2,-2,498,2 : Black CHOP L-2
5,27,Bet,3,6,-3,3,501,3 : Red STREAK W+1 *reset
6,1,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,500,1 : Black CHOP L+0
7,22,Bet,2,0,-2,-2,498,2 : Red STREAK  L-2
8,3,Bet,3,6,-3,3,501,3 : Red CHOP W+1 *reset
9,34,Bet,1,2,-1,1,502,1 : Red STREAK W+2
10,25,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,501,1 : Black CHOP L+1
11,21,Bet,2,4,-2,2,503,2 : Red STREAK W+3 *reset
12,4,Bet,1,2,-1,1,504,1 : Black CHOP W+4
13,8,Bet,1,2,-1,1,505,1 : Black STREAK W+5
14,7,Bet,1,2,-1,1,506,1 : Red CHOP W+6
15,1,Bet,1,2,-1,1,507,1 : Red STREAK W+7
16,12,Bet,1,0,-1,-1,506,1 : Black CHOP L+6
17,16,Bet,2,4,-2,2,508,2 : Red STREAK W+8 *reset
18,2,Bet,1,2,-1,1,509,1 : Black CHOP W+9
19,6,Bet,1,2,-1,1,510,1 : Black STREAK W+10
[/table]

+10

Please try

Atlantis.

[GLC]

A,

Just to be clear. 

You bet chop, streak, chop, streak, chop, etc without deviation.

If the last spin was a R and you are on chop, you bet B.

If the last spin was a R and you are on streak, you bet R.

If the last spin was a R and you are on streak, and you bet R and B spins your next bet is R because you have to bet for a chop.

Correct?

This for sure takes advantage of random.

Will test, but must perform some honey-doos for a while.

George

[atlantis]

A,

Just to be clear. 

You bet chop, streak, chop, streak, chop, etc without deviation.

If the last spin was a R and you are on chop, you bet B.

If the last spin was a R and you are on streak, you bet R.

If the last spin was a R and you are on streak, and you bet R and B spins your next bet is R because you have to bet for a chop.

Correct?

This for sure takes advantage of random.

Will test, but must perform some honey-doos for a while.

George

You got it, George. Toldya it was simple

A.

[atlantis]

Here are same numbers but using *safer* 2u-2d progression with reset.

Result  Bet Type   +/-
===============
Red       no bet
Black    1  CHOP    W+1
Black    1 STREAK  W+2
Black    1 CHOP      L+1
Red      1 STREAK   L+0
Black    2 CHOP      W+2 *reset
Red      1 STREAK    L+1
Red       1 CHOP      L+0
Red       2 STREAK   W+2 *reset
Black     1 CHOP       L+1
Red       1 STREAK    L+0
Black     2 CHOP      W+2 *reset
Black     1 STREAK   W+3
Red       1 CHOP      W+4
Red       1 STREAK    W+5
Black     1 CHOP       W+6
Red        1 STREAK    L+5
Black     1  CHOP      W+6
Black     1 STREAK   W+7

+7

[Edited to correct error in table - A]

A.

[GLC]

Tested two sessions:  2 up/ 2 down.

B      NB
R      Chop       +1        +1  Re-set
R      Streak     +1        +2  Re-set
B      Chop       +1        +3  Re-set
B      Streak     +1        +4  Re-set
B      Chop       -1         +3
R      Streak     -1         +2
0      Chop       -2          0
B      Streak     -2          -2
B      Chop       -3          -5
R      Streak     -3          -8
R      Chop       -4          -12
B      Streak     -4          -16
R      Chop       +5         -11
R      Streak     +5         -6
B      Chop       +4         -2
B      Streak     +4         +2
R      Chop       +3         +5  Re-set
R      Streak     +1         +6  Re-set
R      Chop       -1          +5
R      Streak     +1         +6  Re-set
R      Chop       -1          +5
R      Streak     +1         +6  Re-set
R      Chop       -1          +5
B      Streak     -1          +4
B      Streak     +2         +6  Re-set
B      Chop       -1          +5
B      Streak     +1         +6  Re-set
B      Chop       -1          +5
B      Streak     +1         +6  Re-set
B      Chop       -1          +5
R      Streak     -1          +4
R      Chop       -2          +2
R      Streak     +2         +4
R      Chop       -2          +2
R      Streak     +2         +4
B      Chop       +2         +6  Re-set
R      Streak     -1          +5
B      Chop       -1          +4
R      Streak     -2          +2
B      Chop       +2         +4
R      Streak     -2          +2
B      Chop       +2         +4
R      Streak     -2          +2
B      Chop       +2         +4
R      Streak     -2          +2
B      Chop       +2         +4
R      Streak     -2          +2
B      Chop       +2         +4
B      Streak     +2         +6  Re-set
B      Chop       -1          +5
R      Streak     -1          +4
B      Chop       +2         +6  Re-set 
 
Hard fought session, but still came out ahead.  This was one of my old sessions I pulled out to see how it would do in comparison.  Note the streak of 13 chops in a row toward the end.  This kept taking us around in a circle.

At least we didn't lose.

George

[GLC]

Second session played on single zero, Betvoyager.

B    No Bet
R    Chop      +1     +1  Re-set
B    Streak     -1      0
R    Ch          +1     +1  Re-set
R    St           +1     +2  Re-set
B    Ch          +1     +3  Re-set
B    St           +1     +4  Re-set
B    Ch          -1      +3
R    St           -1      +2
B    Ch          +2     +4  Re-set
B    St           +1     +5  Re-set
B    Ch           -1     +4
R    St            -1     +3
R    Ch           -2     +1
B    St            -2     -1
B    Ch           -3     -4
R    St            -3     -7
B    Ch           +4    -3
B    St            +4    +1
B    Ch           -3      -2
B    St            +3     +1
B    Ch            -3      -2
R    St             -3      -5
B    Ch            +4     -1
R    St             -4      -5
R    Ch            -4      -9
R    St             +5     -4
B    Ch            +5     +1
B    St             +4     +5  Re-set
R    Ch            +1     +6  Re-set
B    St             -1      +5
B    Ch            -1      +4
R    St             -2      +2
R    Ch            -2       0
B    St             -3       -3
R    Ch            +3      0
B    St             -3       -3
B    Ch            -3       -6
B    St             +4      -2
R    Ch             +4     +2
B    St              -3      -1
R    Ch             +3     +2
B    St              -3      -1
B    Ch             -3      -4
R    St              -4      -8
B    Ch             +4     -4
R    St              -4      -8
R    Ch             -4      -12
R    St              +5     -7
B    Ch             +5     -2
R    St              -4      -6
B    Ch             +4     -2
B    St              +4     +2
R    Ch             +3     +5
0    St              -3      +2
R    Ch             -3       -1
B    St              -4       -5
R    Ch             +4       -1
B    St              -4        -5
R    Ch             +4       -1
B    St              -4        -5
R    Ch             +4       -1
R    St              +4       +3
B    Ch             +3       +6  Re-set
B    St              +1       +7  Re-set
B    Ch              -1        +6
B    St              +1        +7  Re-set
R    Ch             +1        +8  Re-set
R    St              +1        +9  Re-set
B    Ch             +1       +10  Re-set
B    St              +1       +11  Re-set
B    Ch             -1        +10
B    St             +1        +11  Re-set
R    Ch            +1        +12  Re-set
R    St             +1        +13  Re-set
R    Ch             -1        +12 
R    St             +1        +14  Re-set
B    Ch            +1        +15  Re-set
B    St             +1        +16  Re-set
0    Ch             -1        +15
R    St              -1        +14
B    Ch             +2       +16  Re-set
R    St              -1        +15
B    Ch             +1       +16  Re-set
R    St              -1        +15
R    Ch             -1        +14
R    St             +2        +16  Re-set
B    Ch            +1        +17  Re-set

Seems to work pretty well.

I'll keep testing till we find that losing streak and see what it takes to kill it.

George   
                       

[StackBundles]

sorry but ive just jumped on to this had a quick read of whats been going on
seems pretty nice results so far 
just wondering whats the progression we are using do we have a final one or not?

[GLC]

Sorry but I've just jumped on to this had a quick read of what's been going on
seems pretty nice results so far  
just wondering what's the progression we are using do we have a final one or not?

Stack,

Good to have you considering helping us with system.  If you start at the top you'll see that we have been around the block a time or two.  Right now we are looking at a new bet selection.

Just playing chop,streak,chop,streak,chop,ad infinitum.

Atlantis is betting lose 2 in a row increase bet by 1.  Win 2 in a row decrease bet by 1.

I have been testing 1-2, then 2-4, then 3-6, then etc...
In other words, bet 1 if you lose then bet 2. As long as you win at 1 or 2 you keep betting at this level.

When you lose a 2 unit bet, you go to the next level which is 2-4.  You bet 2 and if you lose you bet 4.  If you win at 4 you return to 2  and keep playing at this level until you either lose two in a row or reach a new high.  Then you reset.

Every time you lose 2 in a row, you move to the next higher level.  You never return to a lower level unless you reach a new high.

It's a little more aggressive than 2up/2down, but wins more for the same spins.  It does take you a little deeper on a losing streak, but isn't such a grind.

One thing I've noticed is that any of these variations on the D'Alembert bet progressions win during the same streaks and lose during the same streaks.  They just go deeper when losing and a little higher when winning.

Chose to fit your personality.  If I remember right, you like to play a little more aggressively.

Cheers,

George

[GLC]

Okay Guys, my final post of the day.

I knew this latest tweak rang a bell.  I just remembered where I had seen this bet selection method before.  It's the Author's system on page 80-84 of the "Monte Carlo Anectdotes".  Instead of calling it chops vs streaks, he calls it same vs opposite.  Go read it, it's an excellent outline of the system.

He recommends betting 1-2-3-6 and on 4 losses in a row, start over with 1.  He points out that the only sequence that can cause you to lose 4 in a row is entering the dreaded doubles on the wrong step.  If you enter them on the right step, you'll win every spin.  If you enter on the wrong step and lose 4 times in a row, just start over betting on the same color as the last one and you'll be on the winning side if the doubles continue.  Of course zero adds another element of complication to the mix.

It's about as safe of a progression as you can come up with.

Cheers,

George

[Fraudster]

Hi All

This post just caught my eye this morning...

sorry i have not been able to help/comment any sooner

did a very short test on smart live casino...


START BALANCE = Ã,£1000
SMART LIVE CASINO
AUTO WHEEL (AIR) (LOW LIMIT)


B NO BET
R CHOP +1 +1 (RESET)
B STREAK -1 0
R CHOP +4 +2
B STREAK -1 +1
R CHOP +4 +3
R STREAK +1 +4
B CHOP +1 +5
B STREAK +1 +6
*** ZERO *** -1 +5
B NO BET - DUE TO ZERO
R CHOP +4 +7
B STREAK -1 +6



WITH REGARDS TO THE ZERO? HOW DO YOU GUYS PLAY IT? I CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE BEST POLICY WAS TO WAIT FOR THE NEXT NUMBER AND THEN CONTINUE FROM THERE USING THE OPPOSITE OF THE LAST BET ... I.E. CHOP OR A STREAK ... YOU WILL SEE WHAT I MEAN FROM THE NUMBERS ABOVE.

Sorry for the capitals... just noticed.

i will be helping test this idea much more in the future...

i was using the above progression posted by glc in the last post before this one.

looks very promising indeed guys ... not only are you catching a choppy table, but you should also catch streaky ones too i.e. RRRRBRRRRRBBBBBBBB.