EC System

GLC · Sep 01, 11:21 PM 2010

Atlantis,

I know that we're kind of going down two different paths here. I'm not trying to convince you to go my way and I know that you're not trying to convince me to go yours. We're just posting our findings for those who are reading these posts but not entering in yet. Someone may have some very good imput. They're just waiting for the right time to hit us with it. If they keep reading our findings, it may trigger a new approach. Until I determine that this won't hold up for some reason, it's going to keep showing up at the top of the list.

Cheers,

G.

P.S. Iboba's ruined me with his oppositional betting concept. I feel like just betting one side is missed opportunity. Although, I don't know how easy it'll be if you can't use pen and paper.

warrior · Sep 02, 12:02 AM 2010

big A . GOOD PROFIT REAL MONEY THANKS.

GLC · Sep 02, 12:36 AM 2010

Short session. 0/00 wheel. Betvoyager. Betting both ways simultaneously. Differential betting where applicable.

spin chop streak total
35B
30R R +1 NB +1 Re-set
20B B +1 NB +1 Re-set
33B R -1 NB -1
28B R -3 B +1 -3
28B NB B +1 -2
17B NB B +1 -1
19R NB B -1 -2
11B B +5 B +3 +6 Re-set
7R R +1 B -1 0
12R B -1 B -3 -4
5R B -3 R +5 -2
24B NB R -2 -4
21R R +5 R +4 +5 Re-set
32R B -1 R +1 0
9R B -3 R +1 -2
22B NB R -1 -3
19R R +5 R +3 +5 Re-set
29B B +1 R -1 0
15B R -1 R -3 -4
32R R +3 B -5 -6
4B B +1 B +7 +2 Re-set
14R R +1 B -1 0
0 B -1 B -3 -4
1R B -3 B -5 -12
11B B +5 R -7 -14
20B R -1 R -9 -24
22B R -3 B +11 -16
35B NB B +8 -8
17B NB B +5 -3
2B NB B +2 -1
34R NB B -1 -2
27R B -5 B -3 -10
20B B +7 R -5 -8
21R R +4 R +7 +3 Re-set
7R B -1 R +1 0
29B B +3 R -1 +2 Re-set
13B R -1 R -1 -2
27R R +3 B -3 -2
5R B -1 B -5 -8
12R B -3 R +7 -4
27R NB R +4 0

+25 units
42 spins
+11 largest bet
496/500 lowest point in bankroll

This is the hardest session yet.

George

atlantis · Sep 02, 02:28 AM 2010

Hi George

Thx for posting your latest results. Not bad for a "hard" session on a 0/00 wheel...
I will study it and see if I can fathom your playing strategy for both chop and sequence.
Also, I am wondering how your session would have panned out if playing level stake flat bets @1 unit without any progression on both sides?
Anyway, keep up the good work and ideas.

A.

GLC · Sep 02, 08:01 PM 2010

A.

Okay, now that I've figured out how to do a session so you can see how it was played, I thought I would try a session on Bacarrat since it's an EC bet without the zero's. I just pulled out an old session to see how the system performs.

Here it is. Same as my last post. +2/-3. Play both sides oppositionally. Reset at new high.

Result Chop Streak Total
B
B
B NB B+1 +1 Reset
P NB B-1 -1
B B+1 B+3 +3 Reset
B P-1 B+1 0
P P+3 B-1 +2 Reset
B B+1 B+1 +2 Reset
P P+1 B-1 0
P B-1 B-3 -4
B B+3 P-5 -6
P P+1 P+7 +2 Reset
P B-1 P+1 0
B B+3 P-1 +2 Reset
B P-1 P-3 -4
P P+3 B-5 -6
B B+1 B+7 +2 Reset
B P-1 B+1 0
P P+3 B-1 +2 Reset
P B-1 B-3 -4
P B-3 P+5 -2
P NB P+1 -1
B NB P-1 -2
P P+1 P+3 +2 Reset
B B+1 P-1 0
B P-1 P-3 -4
B P-3 B+5 -2
B NB B+2 0
B NB B+1 +1 Reset
B NB B+1 +1 Reset
P NB B-1 -1
P B-1 B-3 -5
P B-3 P+5 -3
B NB P-2 -5
P NB P+4 -1
B B+1 P-2 -2
P P+1 P+4 +3 Reset
B B+1 P-1 0
P P+1 P+3 +4 Reset

I'm going to stop here, because it's just more of the same old stuff.

39 Hands
+27 units won
Was never in the hole.

Here's why this system is so good playing opposing sides.

If the system is chopping, we are winning on the chop side and because we play for 2 losses on the streak side, the second attempt will win because of the alternating colors. If the colors are streaking, we are winning every bet on the streak side and we quit betting on the chop side after the second loss. I know there's a sequence that will hurt us, but it may be so rare as to not hurt our overall performance that much.

Hold the phone.
The killing sequence is doubles. When we have a series of doubles, our streak side keeps going deeper and deeper in the hole and the chop side is down to only 1 unit each time which doesn't offset the larger bets on the streak side. A break we could add is if we lose 3 or 4 on the streak side, stop betting until the doubles stop. I'll keep tweaking till we get it as safe as possible.

The nice thing is that this can be played on any EC bet such as pass/don't pass in craps.

Adios for now,

George

warrior · Sep 02, 11:19 PM 2010

I have tried this with the dozens when 2 dozens repeat ex. 122 3 bet on 2 for 2 spins 8 misseS on 4oo spin,i will keep testing this one same concept as ATLANTIS AND EVEN MONEY.

GLC · Sep 02, 11:28 PM 2010

Atlantis,

I feel like I'm hi-jacking your thread. We seem to be at a fork in the road with 1 prong betting chops only and the other prong betting both sides simultaneously.

If you think it best, I'll start another thread playing your bet selection but betting both sides. That way, if anyone just wants to focus on your way, they don't have to weed through all of my posts.

You can remove all my posts from this thread and I'll just start a new post with all new entries.

Sorry, sometimes I get a little carried away and don't realize that I'm being a little verbose until it's obvious to everyone except me. Although, I eventually wake up.

Let me know what you think,

George

atlantis · Sep 03, 03:02 AM 2010

Hey George,

There is really nothing to worry about. I am happy and appreciate your contributions into this topic. So please carry on as usual; as nothing has really gotten off-topic at all and I do not mind if it expands or "grows" into slightly different direction... and to be honest at them moment I'd rather all the discussion to be here in the one place anyway.
There is room here for others to chip in and post their take and/or results also.
Good how it can applied to other games like craps/baccarat for instance.
You seem really excited about betting the 2 sides of an EC but have also identified a danger; I knew, of course...
Maybe if it can be played on the streak (sequence) side the same as for chop ie. after 2 losers (chops) then wait for sequence to re-form (2 of same colour)
Due to other constraints, I've not had as much time to really investigate your spin example and to totally grasp exactly how you're playing it - but since you are extolling the virtues it can't be that much of hassle in actual practice.
I have an idea - maybe we can incorporate the "best of 4" prog into your idea of the dual sides of the EC???
Maybe this can help with the problem you identified?

Thanks,
A.

atlantis · Sep 03, 07:49 AM 2010

Hi GLC.

Here is my slight variation on betting the streak in combination with the basic chop bet which remains unchanged...

Play streak only when 2 of same color consecutively occur... When lose on streak cease betting streak until another occurrence of 2 consecutive colors.

If bet calls for same units on both sides = No Bet (bank is unchanged)

If bet calls for differing units on both sides = bet the differential.

Reset if level or new high as before!

Here firstly is results on both sides using same GLC numbers in roulette session above.

using +2 on loss and -3 on win.
===============================
spin chop streak total
35B
30R R +1 NB +1 *reset

20B B +1 NB +2 *reset

33B R -1 NB +1
28B R -3 B +1 -1
28B NB B +1 0
17B NB B +1 +1
19R NB B -1 0
11B B +5 NB +5 *reset

7R R +1 NB +6 *reset

12R B -1 NB +5
5R B -3 R +1 +3
24B NB R -1 +2
21R R +5 NB +7 *reset

32R B -1 NB +6
9R B -3 R +3 +6
22B NB R +1 +7 *reset

19R R +1 NB +8 *reset

29B B +1 NB +9 *reset

15B R -1 NB +8
32R R +3 B -1 +10 *reset

4B B +1 NB +11 *reset

14R R +1 NB +12 *reset

0 B -0.5 NB +11.5 (ignore result)
1R B -1 NB +10.5
11B B +3 R -1 +12.5 *reset

20B R -1 NB +11.5
22B R -3 B +1 +9.5
35B NB B +1 +10.5

17B NB B +1 +11.5

2B NB B +1 +12.5 *reset

34R NB B -1 +11.5
27R B -1 NB +10.5
20B B +3 R -3 +10.5 *no bet
21R R +1 NB +11.5
7R B -1 NB +10.5
29B B +3 R -5 +8.5
13B R -1 NB +7.5
27R R +3 B -7 +3.5
5R B -1 NB +2.5
12R B -3 R +9 +8.5

27R NB R +6 +14.5 *reset

+14.5 in 42 spins

I will let you be the judge as to whether this is any better or worse than the way you already play it. I've only tested on these numbers so far - so I have no idea if an improvement or not (probably not)

Thanks,

A.

GLC · Sep 03, 11:16 AM 2010

Quote from: atlantis on Sep 03, 07:49 AM 2010
Hi GLC.

Here is my slight variation on betting the streak in combination with the basic chop bet which remains unchanged...

Play streak only when 2 of same color consecutively occur... When lose on streak cease betting streak until another occurrence of 2 consecutive colors.

If bet calls for same units on both sides = No Bet (bank is unchanged)

If bet calls for differing units on both sides = bet the differential.

Reset if level or new high as before!

Here firstly is results on both sides using same GLC numbers in roulette session above.

using +2 on loss and -3 on win.
===============================
spin chop streak total
35B
30R R +1 NB +1 *reset

20B B +1 NB +2 *reset

33B R -1 NB +1
28B R -3 B +1 -1
28B NB B +1 0
17B NB B +1 +1
19R NB B -1 0
11B B +5 NB +5 *reset

7R R +1 NB +6 *reset

12R B -1 NB +5
5R B -3 R +1 +3
24B NB R -1 +2
21R R +5 NB +7 *reset

32R B -1 NB +6
9R B -3 R +3 +6
22B NB R +1 +7 *reset

19R R +1 NB +8 *reset

29B B +1 NB +9 *reset

15B R -1 NB +8
32R R +3 B -1 +10 *reset

4B B +1 NB +11 *reset

14R R +1 NB +12 *reset

0 B -0.5 NB +11.5 (ignore result)
1R B -1 NB +10.5
11B B +3 R -1 +12.5 *reset

20B R -1 NB +11.5
22B R -3 B +1 +9.5
35B NB B +1 +10.5

17B NB B +1 +11.5

2B NB B +1 +12.5 *reset

34R NB B -1 +11.5
27R B -1 NB +10.5
20B B +3 R -3 +10.5 *no bet
21R R +1 NB +11.5
7R B -1 NB +10.5
29B B +3 R -5 +8.5
13B R -1 NB +7.5
27R R +3 B -7 +3.5
5R B -1 NB +2.5
12R B -3 R +9 +8.5

27R NB R +6 +14.5 *reset

+14.5 in 42 spins

I will let you be the judge as to whether this is any better or worse than the way you already play it. I've only tested on these numbers so far - so I have no idea if an improvement or not (probably not)

Thanks,

A.

A.

Thanks for the thumbs up. I like the way your tweak looks. I was thinking also of testing it to go NO BET after losing 4 in a row on the streak side. Now that I've identified the achilles heel, I'm not so ecstatic about the aggressive betting method. Although, I'm not sure it matters so much in the long run. With your method you win less per session, but when you lose, you lose about the same percentage of your wins. With an aggressive betting system, you win a lot more per session, but when you lose, you lose about the same percentage. In the long run it's probably a wash.

The good thing about your approach is that you can afford to bet larger units with a smaller bankroll because the unit spread isn't so large.

I'll test my same spins with you 4's series method and see how it looks. In the long run, betting both sides may not give us enough of an advantage to warrant the extra difficulty to play the system.

Regards,

George

jordan69 · Sep 03, 12:07 PM 2010

Hi guys,

I dont want to disturb your work guys

but i would like to share my own results with first basic rules (Atlantis great job)
and 1 1 1,5 1,5 2 2 2,5 2,5 3 3 3,5 3,5 4 4 4,5 4,5 5 5 progression.
I don't go higher than 5 units.
I bet all the EC's (3 attacks for each spin, but not always cause sometimes we have to wait)

I do my test with real land casino permanences. (single zero)
My tests are made with 54 spins session cause i dont want to play a long time.
Stop loss to determine, but for the moment : 54 units.
Seems too much for me.
Stop win is 8 units per EC's but probably have to accept less (6 ?)
I'll see.

Results after 6 sessions (6 x 54 spins) :

1) + 25
2) + 14,5
3) - 10
4) + 6,5
5) + 11
6) + 9

Total : 56 units.

Good to me

if i'm able to play with 10 or 20 euros units...

Of course, it means almost nothing and for sure, i need to do at least 100 sessions
before claiming anything

But right now, i want to go on cause it's really interesting.
I'm ready for some bad sessions... Not a dreamer. But who knows ?

Thanks Atlantis !

Best regards.

Jordan 69

GLC · Sep 03, 03:36 PM 2010

Jordan 69,

Thanks for the input. The more sessions played by different people with a positive outcome, the better the bet selection looks.

Atlantis,

I noticed that you had some losing sessions in your test of 30. Could you publish the R/B sequence for me on at least one of them so I can run a few tests. I can't seem to find a good losing session to work with.

I'm thinking of adding a third bet (doubles) in opposition to the chops and streaks. If we stop betting after 2 losses in each of the 3 lines of attack, we may just about have everything covered. I know that the transitions will cost us but maybe not too much. I know, it's just another added dimension of complexity to deal with, but if we can play this on the internet (I don't mean on RNG's so don't everybody get in a big lather) or an airball machine like I have access to with 60 seconds per spin, I can make the calculations and place the bets easily.

The next step will be three lines of attack on each of the 3 EC's and it'll be unstopable... Just kidding.

Thanks for your help,

George

atlantis · Sep 04, 07:13 AM 2010

@Jordan: Thanks for the heads-up on your test progress.

@GLC: Here are the 56 numbers of the first losing game in that session of 30, game 12
the result of which was -78 starting @ 2units and playing the original way that Jordan is playing... 3rd Mar 2010 - table 9 at Spielbank, Wiesbaden

26
14
22
34
0
12
12
7
31
24
24
20
18
30
15
36
19
6
35
35
2
30
28
27
19
36
16
34
33
35
34
21
36
22
22
24
36
1
17
27
36
27
28
11
32
14
20
9
27
9
23
18
21
10
6
13

Cheers,
A.

atlantis · Sep 04, 08:36 AM 2010

Quick and favourable live session at SmartLiveCasino on low-limit auto roulette. Playing both sides with +2/-3 prog as in my previous example:

#spun chop seq +/-
====================
18R 1u NB
8B 1u NB +1 *reset
34R 1u NB +2 *reset
24B 1u NB +3 *reset
9R 1u NB +2
27R 3u 1u +5 *reset (bet differential 2 on B)
4B 1u +6 *reset
7R 1u +7 *reset
33B 1u +6
10B 3u 1u +8 *reset (bet differential 2 on R)
23R 1u +9 *reset
8B 1u +10 *reset
12R

============

+10 in 13 spins

A.

GLC · Sep 04, 12:10 PM 2010

Thanks A.

I'll look at them, but I just played a demo session on betvoyager and got killed playing both sides.

R,R,R,B,R,R,R,B,R,R,B,B,R,B,B,B,B,R,R,R,B,B,R,B,B,R,B,R,R,B,B,0,R,B,R,B,B,R,R,R,R,B,B,B,R,R,R,B,R,R,0,B,B,B,R,R,R.

56 spins. Won 20 units before going on a -104 streak.

Lots of doubles and triples. They're the killers.

I haven't tried it with starting at 2 progression.

I did look at how it would do using your 4 series. Ended up at -12 but had won 4 previous for a loss of -8. I always hate testing another betting system because it ends in the middle of an attack which skews the results because with a few more spins you would expect to get back to even or +.

One question. I assumed that when playing the 4 series bets, you only count actual bets in the 4 and not include the NO BET spins. Am I right?

G

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